On Tue, Jun 06, 2000 at 02:06:40PM -0500, Jason T. Miller wrote:
> Wonder what DEC would think of allowing (providing?) old PDP hardware docs
> for the archive?
I'm afraid you'd have to ask Mentec.
--
Wilko Bulte FreeBSD, the power to serve http://www.freebsd.orghttp://www.nlfug.nl
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Wed Jun 7 05:38:29 2000
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From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <000606153829.20200e60(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD
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>Does anyone have experience using the RX50 floppy drive under 2.11BSD?
Yeah, sure.
> I
>patched my FreeBSD kernel to handle RX50-format (80 cyl / 1 hd / 10 sec)
>diskettes, and noticed what seemed to be some sort of logical sector
>interleave (I also have hardware that does physical diskette reads /
<dumps, which assured me that I was getting the physical data off the disk
>in the order prescribed by the sector ID address marks); so, back to the
>old '11 for another round of test-disk making. My test data was simple
>enough: 512 bytes of 16-bit unsigned integer one, followed by 512 bytes of
>UINT16 2, usw. to UINT16 800; the easier to figure out the interleave, my
>precious... But I didna even get that far: observe (testrx50.img is
>409,600 bytes):
>
> $ dd if=testrx50.img of=/dev/ra12a
> 800+0 records in
> 800+0 records out
> $ dd if=/dev/ra12a of=test
> 800+0 records in
> 800+0 records out
> $ diff testrx50.img test
> Binary files testrx50.img and test differ
>
>WHOA! This shouldn't happen, should it?
No, it shouldn't, but I'm confused as to where you're doing this at.
Is this on FreeBSD?
>Also:
> - The '11/2.11BSD never seem to write the first two sectors, although
>no error is returned to this effect; in fact, the data in sector three is
>from offset 1024 in the input data (0x0003 in the above example). Is this
>due to disk label support or something? The raw (character) device reports
>itself as read-only, even for root.
This must have something to do with the 2.11BSD disk label. The raw
character device should be writable, can you try rm'ing the appropriate
entries and remaking them with /dev/MAKEDEV?
Also note that you may have to issue a disklabel command to make it
possible for you to clobber the sectors where the disk label would otherwise
live.
> - The remaining data sometimes (but not always; the specific
>circumstances involved I have not yet figured out conclusively -- physical
>interleave, preexisting data (!), or, something else?) carries an
>interleave, though I admit I haven't figured it out yet (meaning I haven't
>sat down and done it, not that I don't know how).
Yes, there is a physical<->logical block interleave on the RX50. See, for
example, John Wilson's PUTR source code ( at ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/ibmpc/putr/
- assuming that ftp.dbit.com is back up by now!) for details and
example code.
>Finally, I noticed there is no floppy-specific code in the MSCP driver, so
>all the gory details of floppy control (along with the gory details of the
>above) must be dealt with by the RQDX3.
That's true, the RQDX3 takes care of all that. If you look at any DEC
Professional RX50 driver source code, you'll see the interleave code in there.
For example, from RT-11's DZ.MAC sources:
;
; In standard RT-PC mode, a 2:1 interleave is used on a single track and
; a 2 sector skew is used across tracks.
("RT-PC" means "RT-11 on a DEC Professional", roughly!)
and later, in a breathtaking example of tight driver interleave code
(really, study it very closely, this is good stuff!):
; Normal I/O, convert block number to track and sector number and interleave
;
ASL R2 ;Make word count unsigned byte count
MOV (PC)+,R4 ;Loop count for 8 bit division
.BYTE -7.,-10. ;Count becomes 0, -10 in high byte for later
50$: CMP #1280.,R5 ;Does 10 go into dividend (10.*200)?
BHI 60$ ;Branch if not, C-bit clear
ADD #-1280.,R5 ;Subtract 10 from dividend, and set C-bit
;(10.*200)
60$: ROL R5 ;Shift dividend and quotient
INCB R4 ;Decrement loop count
BLE 50$ ;Branch until divide done
MOVB R5,R1 ;Copy track number 0:79, zero extend
ADD R4,R5 ;Make sector < 0
MOV R1,R4 ;Copy track number
ASL R1 ;Multiply by 2 (skew)
70$: SUB #10.,R1 ;Reduce track number * 2 MOD 10
BGT 70$ ; to find offset for this track, -10:0
MOV R1,TRKOFF ;Save it
BR 100$ ;Go save parameters and start
>And, er, _really_ finally, is it really true that I can put any HD AT
>drive (well, any one that sports DS jumpers) on the RQDX3 and it'll
>function as an RX33? Does this void my field service contract, as my field
>service engineer is growing bored with staying up all night trying to
>understand funky DEC floppy hardware, as Parts currently has Guinness on
>a 180-day lead and it is a neccessary part of such an operation?
The DEC RX33 floppy drive *is* a TEAC FD55GFR, also commonly found
on PC-clones.
Not just *any* HD AT floppy drive will work. Not only does it need
to support the drive select jumpers, it also needs a bit more jumper
configurability. The exact jumper settings vary depending on which
exact FD55 model and revision you're using. As of a few months
ago many of the jumper setting legends were decoded on the spec sheets
you could get from TEAC's faxback service.
The standard reference on this subject for the past decade has been
Terry Kennedy's THIRD-PARTY-DISKS.TXT, available via anonymous FTP
from
ftp://ftp.spc.edu/third-party-disks.txt
Since this subject comes up several times a year, would it be possible
to link to the above document from somewhere in the PUPS archive, Warren?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Wed Jun 7 05:59:51 2000
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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:59:51 -0400
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Message-Id: <000606155951.20200e60(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD
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>> Wonder what DEC would think of allowing (providing?) old PDP hardware docs
>> for the archive?
>I'm afraid you'd have to ask Mentec.
No, Mentec doesn't (generally) own the rights to those. Mentec owns the
rights to several former DEC OS's, most notably RT-11, RSX-11M, RSX-11M+,
and RSTS/E, and many of the corresponding layered products. But they
don't even own all the former DEC PDP-11 software; for instance, they
don't have XXDP, DOS-11, PAL-11, etc...
Of probable interest to many of the readers of this mailing list,
Mentec is gearing up to offer a hobbyist license for the RT, RSX-11M, RSX-11M+,
and RSTS/E. Note, in particular, that there is a "PDP-11 Hobbyist" link
on Mentec's page at
http://www.mentec.com/mentecinc/default.asp
The link is currently disabled, but I expect it'll be active in the next
week or so.
Tim.
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>From Roger Ivie <rivie(a)teraglobal.com> Wed Jun 7 06:12:14 2000
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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:12:14 -0600
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
From: Roger Ivie <rivie(a)teraglobal.com>
Subject: Re: RX50 on RQDX3 on 2.11BSD
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>Does anyone have experience using the RX50 floppy drive under 2.11BSD? I
>patched my FreeBSD kernel to handle RX50-format (80 cyl / 1 hd / 10 sec)
>diskettes, and noticed what seemed to be some sort of logical sector
>interleave (I also have hardware that does physical diskette reads /
>dumps, which assured me that I was getting the physical data off the disk
>in the order prescribed by the sector ID address marks);
Yes, there is a software interleave on RX50 diskettes. It also varies
from system
to system; I'm pretty certain PDP-11s and VAXes use the same software
interleave
(otherwise you couldn't exchange diskettes between a Pro350 and a MicroVAX II),
but the DECmate II and III use a different software interleave. I
have a memo here
somewhere; it's getting a bit faded, perhaps I should do an underground HTML
translation of it... Ah yes, here it is:
DEC format supported by RQDX controller (this is 1984, so the only
RQDX controller
is RQDX1 at the time) used by Pro300, Micro-PDPs, MicroVAX I:
- 10 sectors per track
- 2 for 1 interleaving with 3 to 1 intercylinder skew
- Physical track # = (LBN/10) + 1 with wraparound to track 0 [IOW, logical
track 0 is physical track 1 and physical track 0 is logical track 79]
- Physical sector # = X ( m ) where m = LBN mod 50, n = m/10, c = m mod 10:
|c=0|c=1|c=2|c=3|c=4|c=5|c=6|c=7|c=8|c=9|
---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
n=0| 01| 03| 05| 07| 09| 02| 04| 06| 08| 10|
---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
n=1| 03| 05| 07| 09| 01| 04| 06| 08| 10| 02|
---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
n=2| 05| 07| 09| 01| 03| 06| 08| 10| 02| 04|
---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
n=3| 07| 09| 01| 03| 05| 08| 10| 02| 04| 06|
---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
n=4| 09| 01| 03| 05| 07| 10| 02| 04| 06| 08|
---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
DECmates and Rainbows don't use an intercylinder skew. Rainbows have the
whacky logical track wrapping while DECmates don't.
Yes, the RQDX3 is supposed to do this for you so you don't have to deal
with it, unless you're foolishly trying to read DECmate or Rainbow disks
on an RQDX3, at which point you need to carefully figure out how the lack
of intercylinder skew on the DECmates interacts with the cylinder skew
on the RQDX3.
I know the RQDX3 implements the soft interleave because I did the firmware
for Digital's SCSI floppy controller. I maintained that the device driver
should deal with the interleave because it varies from format to format and
the SCSI controller can't tell whether a particular RX50 is a DECmate RX50
or a VAX RX50. VMS didn't want to deal with the soft interleave because they
don't have to on the RQDX3. I lost the fight and had to go back into the
SCSI controller and rev the firmware to deal with the soft interleave.
> $ dd if=testrx50.img of=/dev/ra12a
> 800+0 records in
> 800+0 records out
> $ dd if=/dev/ra12a of=test
> 800+0 records in
> 800+0 records out
> $ diff testrx50.img test
> Binary files testrx50.img and test differ
>
>WHOA! This shouldn't happen, should it?
No, it shouldn't, at least AFAIK.
> In my late-night screwings-around,
>I recall the following Additional Facts:
> - Disks formatted with my PC floppy drive (using my kernel hacks -
>available on request [although until I get them working, no guarantees in
>re: their applicability to this or any other use; although I will attest
>that they won't make your kernel crash, at least not in 4.0-STABLE])
>usually work okay, but sometimes give hard errors.
This shouldn't be a problem. There are some potential difficulties
involving the gap lengths; IIRC it's possible to format floppies that
work on a PC but don't work with the HDC 9224 used on the RQDX3 because
the 9224 requires a little bit more time to clean itself up in one of
the gaps. Unfortunately, I don't recall the details; this was all a long
time ago. I think it involves the gap between the header and data fields of
a sector, but don't hold me to that.
>I'll note at this point that the media I'm using is 3M DS/DD 96tpi (_not_
>high density), and disks formatted with the 6000 (RT-11) worked perfectly
>under RSX-11.
That's good. You should not be using high-density disks.
>Finally, I noticed there is no floppy-specific code in the MSCP driver, so
>all the gory details of floppy control (along with the gory details of the
>above) must be dealt with by the RQDX3. Anybody got documentation for this
>little slice 'o heaven?
What sort of info are you looking for? Floppy drivers are a PITA to write
and you should be happy the RQDX3 is hiding it from you.
>And, er, _really_ finally, is it really true that I can put any HD AT
>drive (well, any one that sports DS jumpers) on the RQDX3 and it'll
>function as an RX33?
The DEC drive changes speed based on the head write current signal of
the interface. AT drives don't change speed; the data separator on an
AT controller runs at 300KHz for low-density instead of 250KHz to deal
with that little slice o' heaven. If you stick any HD AT drive on an
RQDX3, you may be able to read high-density disks, but you probably will
not be able to read low-density disks (i.e., RX50s).
Oh yeah. Since the DEC drives change speed, that means there's an extra
little slice o' heaven in the floppy support code to wait for the drive
to change speed when the density changes. Are you _sure_ you want
documentation for that little slice o' heaven?
--
Roger Ivie
rivie(a)teraglobal.com
Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
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jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> [jkunz@MissSophie 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a]$ file stand.Z=20
> stand.Z: data
> [jkunz@MissSophie 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0a]$ uncompress -c stand.Z > /bigtmp/t=
> mp/stand
> uncompress: stand.Z: Inappropriate file type or format
See
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/compress.html
> An other reason was: I wanted
> to install some "original" CSRG stuff. So I took 4.3BSD-Reno.
4.3BSD-Quasijarus is more original CSRG than 4.3BSD-Reno. Reno doesn't follow
the True UNIX line of V1 thru V7 thru 4.3BSD, Quasijarus does. Reno breaks all
traditional CSRG ideology and is not CSRG in any way other than having been
built in Evans Hall. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus hasn't been built in Evans Hall, but is
CSRG in every other way.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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> I have an incomplete set of Pro/Venix. A couple of
> the floppies are bad. I would like to find a copy
> of Pro/Venix that is installable, as it is more
> flexible than Venix/Pro. If anyone out there has
> any Pro/Venix floppies, I'd be grateful to hear about
> it.
>
I thought this one was up on uu.se site. I got my copy from there years
ago.
Allison
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jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> Today I tried to install 4.3BSD-Reno on a MicroVAX II. The machine has
> 13MB RAM, DHV11, TK50, DELQA, one RD53 with RQDX3 and a Sigma DLV11-J
> clone.
4.3BSD-Reno is spoiled and bloated, and won't fit on an RD53. The true 4.3BSD,
however, 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, will. Go to
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/
to learn about the project and subscribe to its mailing list, then ask any
further questions there.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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>From "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com> Tue Jun 6 11:12:19 2000
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From: "emanuel stiebler" <emu(a)ecubics.com>
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Subject: profesional 350 & 380
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 19:12:19 -0600
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Hi all,
Any chance to get a unix running on them ?
cheers & thanks,
emanuel
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>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Tue Jun 6 13:50:14 2000
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Subject: Re: profesional 350 & 380
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There are at least two *NIXes that run on the Pro.
There are apparently patches for 2.9BSD available
that allow that version to run on the Pro. I don't
have any experience with that.
There are two versions of Venix that run on the Pro.
1) Venix/Pro came directly from Venturecom.
It exists in Version 1 and Version 2.
2) Pro/Venix came from DEC, but was a slight
rework of Venix originally from Venturecom.
I.e., DEC worked over Venix/Pro and issued a
version itself called Pro/Venix.
Venix/Pro versions 1 and 2 are available from the
archives at ftp.update.uu.se. This means, ostensibly,
that Venix/Pro is in the "public domain". Pro/Venix
could also be in the public domain, subject to the
Ancient Unix License, since it originates from Version
7 and System III from AT&T. Bob Supnick, who was at
DEC, once stated he saw no reason why it couldn't be
a part of the PUPS archive under the AU License.
I have an incomplete set of Pro/Venix. A couple of
the floppies are bad. I would like to find a copy
of Pro/Venix that is installable, as it is more
flexible than Venix/Pro. If anyone out there has
any Pro/Venix floppies, I'd be grateful to hear about
it.
Thanks,
Dave
emanuel stiebler wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Any chance to get a unix running on them ?
>
> cheers & thanks,
> emanuel
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Tue Jun 6 16:01:20 2000
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: emanuel stiebler <emu(a)ecubics.com>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: profesional 350 & 380
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On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, emanuel stiebler wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Any chance to get a unix running on them ?
There is Venix. I even think it's free now...
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Hi.
Today I tried to install 4.3BSD-Reno on a MicroVAX II. The machine has
13MB RAM, DHV11, TK50, DELQA, one RD53 with RQDX3 and a Sigma DLV11-J
clone. I created a boot tape using a netbooted NetBSD 1.4.2 on this
machine. I dd-ed "stand", "miniroot" and "rootdump" onto a tape with
the blocksizes listed in the file "Rick_Copeland_Note". I also used
"maketape" from the 2.11BSD distribution.
>>> b mua0
2..1..0..
?06 HLT INST
PC = 00074C1E
>>>
Every time the same. :-(
Do I make a mistake? Is my hardware not supported? Is there a other way
to get 4.3BSD-Reno instaled? (Puting a disklabel, ffs and data with
NetBSD onto the disk, but how to boot?) ???
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
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Hi all,
Well I've had a few comments back from people about the future of
things on the PUPS & TUHS front. I've sat down & knocked up a short
proposal which I'd be happy with. The overarching goal is to give everybody
what they want :-) Anyway, send me comments and suggestions, or plain old
disagreements!
Thanks,
Warren
A Discussion Paper on The Future of PUPS, TUHS and the Archive
==============================================================
Policy
------
The PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society (PUPS) goes back to being a group
specifically focussed on the versions of Unix for the PDP-11 platform.
The Unix Heritage Society (TUHS) will be an umbrella group to support
efforts to preserve or maintain all versions of Unix that are no longer
considered to be mainstream. The type of support is outlined below.
Mechanism
---------
The pups@minnie mailing list will remain an ``all-encompassing'' mailing
list for those people who are active in, or interested in, the aims of the
Unix Heritage Society. It will be renamed to be tuhs(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
If enough people request it, a PUPS-specific mailing list will be set up.
As part of TUHS aim of support, mailing lists on minnie can be set up
for those groups who wish to come under the TUHS umbrella. One or more
people from each group will be the list maintainer.
If the information is not huge, minnie can offer web space for these
groups, too. I'm already doing this for the Quasijarus project.
The PUPS Archive will be renamed `The Unix Heritage Archive'. The top-level
will contain files & information that is generic. There will be sublevels
in the form platform/vendor/version. We might need some other categories
for multi-platform systems like the 4BSDs. As an example, nearly all of the
current archive will move under a PDP-11/ directory. But directories like
Applications/ and Lists/ will stay where they are.
If possible and where there are volunteers, each section of the archive
will be maintained by its own maintainer. Minnie will provide disk space
for all sections, so that there is a `one-stop' place to keep things.
However, some groups may want to maintain a separate archive & existence.
In this case, TUHS will set up pointers to their efforts.
Volunteers & Mirrors
--------------------
Some of the existing volunteers and archive mirror maintainers may not
wish to maintain a copy of the full TUHS archive. That's their perogative.
In fact, it might be useful to `name' each section of the full archive.
For example, someone might only want to mirror the VAX section. Perhaps
this can be called the VAX Unix Archive.
I can modify the mechanism of ordering archive copies so that:
+ specific volunteers can nominate which archive sections they carry
+ requesters can order specific sections, or all, and find out how
big each section is
+ requests will only be sent to those volunteers who can do them
Copyright & License Issues
--------------------------
At present, most things in the archive are protected by licenses and/or
copyright. This probably isn't going to change soon. The current mechanisms
to ensure access by license holders will be preserved.
Given the aims of TUHS, I am prepared to keep in the archive anything that
is Unix-related for antiquated or non-mainstream systems. We may not
be able to release some of this due to license or copyright reasons. In
that case, it will be kept hidden away in the archive until it can be
released. It won't be mirrored or be available for copying in any way
until that time.
A Personal Note
---------------
I'd like to maintain the PDP-11 archive, and initially do the TUHS stuff
(including web pages, mailing lists, top-level of the archive). I'll set
up platform-specific (or other-specific) levels as long as there is someone
who will volunteer to maintain that area, and any web pages and mailing
lists associated with them.
It would also be a good idea to have an understudy or two in the wings,
just in case I get hit by a bus or something.
Conclusion
----------
I'm sure there are other issues (especially implementation ones) that
I've missed above, but hopefully you get the general idea of my proposal
for future direction of PUPS and TUHS.
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sat Jun 3 17:57:30 2000
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Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:57:30 +0100
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Warren's Position on Future of PUPS/TUHS
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In message <200006030158.LAA08504(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey
<wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>Hi all,
> Well I've had a few comments back from people about the future of
>things on the PUPS & TUHS front. I've sat down & knocked up a short
>proposal which I'd be happy with. The overarching goal is to give everybody
>what they want :-) Anyway, send me comments and suggestions, or plain old
>disagreements!
>
>Thanks,
> Warren
>
Sounds basically ok to me
Robin
>
> A Discussion Paper on The Future of PUPS, TUHS and the Archive
> ==============================================================
>
>Policy
>------
>
>The PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society (PUPS) goes back to being a group
>specifically focussed on the versions of Unix for the PDP-11 platform.
>
>The Unix Heritage Society (TUHS) will be an umbrella group to support
>efforts to preserve or maintain all versions of Unix that are no longer
>considered to be mainstream. The type of support is outlined below.
>
>Mechanism
>---------
>
>The pups@minnie mailing list will remain an ``all-encompassing'' mailing
>list for those people who are active in, or interested in, the aims of the
>Unix Heritage Society. It will be renamed to be tuhs(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
>If enough people request it, a PUPS-specific mailing list will be set up.
>
>As part of TUHS aim of support, mailing lists on minnie can be set up
>for those groups who wish to come under the TUHS umbrella. One or more
>people from each group will be the list maintainer.
>
>If the information is not huge, minnie can offer web space for these
>groups, too. I'm already doing this for the Quasijarus project.
>
>The PUPS Archive will be renamed `The Unix Heritage Archive'. The top-level
>will contain files & information that is generic. There will be sublevels
>in the form platform/vendor/version. We might need some other categories
>for multi-platform systems like the 4BSDs. As an example, nearly all of the
>current archive will move under a PDP-11/ directory. But directories like
>Applications/ and Lists/ will stay where they are.
>
>If possible and where there are volunteers, each section of the archive
>will be maintained by its own maintainer. Minnie will provide disk space
>for all sections, so that there is a `one-stop' place to keep things.
>However, some groups may want to maintain a separate archive & existence.
>In this case, TUHS will set up pointers to their efforts.
>
>
>Volunteers & Mirrors
>--------------------
>
>Some of the existing volunteers and archive mirror maintainers may not
>wish to maintain a copy of the full TUHS archive. That's their perogative.
>In fact, it might be useful to `name' each section of the full archive.
>For example, someone might only want to mirror the VAX section. Perhaps
>this can be called the VAX Unix Archive.
>
>I can modify the mechanism of ordering archive copies so that:
>
> + specific volunteers can nominate which archive sections they carry
> + requesters can order specific sections, or all, and find out how
> big each section is
> + requests will only be sent to those volunteers who can do them
>
>
>Copyright & License Issues
>--------------------------
>
>At present, most things in the archive are protected by licenses and/or
>copyright. This probably isn't going to change soon. The current mechanisms
>to ensure access by license holders will be preserved.
>
>Given the aims of TUHS, I am prepared to keep in the archive anything that
>is Unix-related for antiquated or non-mainstream systems. We may not
>be able to release some of this due to license or copyright reasons. In
>that case, it will be kept hidden away in the archive until it can be
>released. It won't be mirrored or be available for copying in any way
>until that time.
>
>A Personal Note
>---------------
>
>I'd like to maintain the PDP-11 archive, and initially do the TUHS stuff
>(including web pages, mailing lists, top-level of the archive). I'll set
>up platform-specific (or other-specific) levels as long as there is someone
>who will volunteer to maintain that area, and any web pages and mailing
>lists associated with them.
>
>It would also be a good idea to have an understudy or two in the wings,
>just in case I get hit by a bus or something.
>
>Conclusion
>----------
>
>I'm sure there are other issues (especially implementation ones) that
>I've missed above, but hopefully you get the general idea of my proposal
>for future direction of PUPS and TUHS.
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome
Interesting, there may be a PDPsomethingorother machine come available in
surplus here. A quick glance at it showed it to be in a 1/2 height rack,
with some custom name that meant nothing to me. But, it had two rack
cabinets about 6 inches high each, with definite looking DEC cards,
4 wide cards, with an interconnecting cable between the two cases.
The thing had a half gig scsi drive and scsi tape (60 or 150mb).
Alas, I was able only to make a quick glance at it, before I had to
leave. What might such a critter actually be? It had half a dozen
RS232 terminal lines out the back, and a wyse terminal sitting on top
of the case. It is not the kind of thing the PeeCee mongers are going
to dive into, so it might go for a song if I wait a couple of weeks.
It was not DEC badged, but definitely had what I would interpret as
DEC boards inside.
Bob
jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> If you want a modern Unix OS [...]
If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee sea
hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like I do) would
surely feel the same way about software (again like I do). Why should one treat
hardware and software differently in this respect? Why mix-and-match the
wonderful classical hardware with crappy bloated "modern" software?
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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>From Brian Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> Sat May 27 08:21:49 2000
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Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:21:49 -0700
From: Brian Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <0005262051.AA18987(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>
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On Fri, 26 May 2000, Michael Sokolov wrote:
> jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> > If you want a modern Unix OS [...]
>
> If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee
> sea hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like
> I do) would surely feel the same way about software (again like I do).
> Why should one treat hardware and software differently in this
> respect? Why mix-and-match the wonderful classical hardware with
> crappy bloated "modern" software?
This list is definitely geared towards people running classic OSes on
classic systems. I actually really enjoy having lots of the bloated
modern hardware running on my VAXen. So much contemporary software
compiles and runs right out of the tarballs under NetBSD/vax. And
honestly, a lot of it performs quite admirably on even my humblest of
MicroVAX II's.
I see nothing incompatible with loving modern OSes running well on ancient
hardware. :-)
-brian.
--- Brian Chase | bdc(a)world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----
All math equations have a fistfight on at least one side. -- K.
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David O'Brien <obrien(a)NUXI.com> wrote:
> The port-vax(a)netbsd.org list is full of very VAX clueful people.
So is quasijarus(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG.
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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In article by Mike W.:
> I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
> hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,
> but no to get get it on the machine, Model: one of two: VS12W-B2 or
> V512W-B2. It is an old sticker, could be a 5 or an S. A tape drive is
> installed, but no tape disk came with it. Is there another OS it can
> run?
Yes, it will run UNIX, the timesharing system by Ritchie and Thompson, Berkeley
VAX version thereof, the current version of which is 4.3BSD-Quasijarus
maintained by me, the WWW page for which is:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/
Running UNIX requires a UNIX source license (True UNIX never had, doesn't have,
and never will have a concept of "binary only"), but these days SCO gives them
out for FREE! You have a tape drive, so you will have no problem with
installation. I have supply you with the boot tape, but you'll have to
reimburse me for the tape and shipping.
> How do I hook up the Console to work on it. For that matter, what does
> the console look like?
You need a standard RS-232 terminal. The console port connector on the MicroVAX
is of a rather odd standard, though. A DEC BCC05 or BCC08 cable will connect it
to a standard RS-232 DB25M terminal. If you want or have to make your own
cable, I've got the pinout for the MicroVAX console port connector somewhere.
> [...] nothing on 'where and
> how the cables go on the back (bulkhead).
The I/O distribution panel on the back provides external connections for all
Q-bus modules you have. You'll have to tell us what Q-bus modules you have so
that we can tell you what external connections they need. You obviously have
the CPU, which has one external connection: the console port which I just told
you about.
> I need to know how, why and
> when to turn the knobs on the back.
On the CPU module bulkhead there are two knobs and one switch. One knob selects
the console port baud rate. I think this one is obvious. You can use any of the
baud rates printed around the knob, but 9600 baud is standard. The other knob
selects between normal operation (the arrow icon), console language selection
(the talking face icon), and console port loopback test (the T in the circle
icon). I always leave it on the arrow icon. Finally, the switch selects between
maintenance mode (halt enabled, stay in the console on power-up) and production
mode (halt disabled, boot the OS on power-up). These correspond to the dot-
inside-the-circle and dot-outside-the-circle icons, respectively. For now leave
the dot inside the circle.
For more info subscribe to the Quasijarus mailing list and ask there. Send
subscription requests to:
quasijarus-request(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force
International Engineering and Science Task Force
615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)
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