23 Feb
2023
23 Feb
'23
8:14 a.m.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 5:12 PM Rob Gingell <gingell(a)computer.org> wrote:
I got my story from Kirk McKusick who was very clear that it was going
to happen, but didn't due to some hold up at the highest levels. It was only
then that the decided to go with Mach after they couldn't get it...
We expected "everyone" to eventually get the VM system, as it was in
I don't doubt that. I certainly wasn't there. I've heard the story from
Kirk several times though...
Warner
On 2/22/23 12:04 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
Process is a good word here :).
SunOS 4 has a lot of encumbered code in it, ...
SunOS had a complicated set of license encumbrances. I can't claim to
have fully understood them even at the time. In the mid-1980s, the
notion of "open sourcing" as we understand it today wasn't a goal or
even considered and so never entered into the terms of the technologies
Sun used. These might have been overcome with effort but in the context
of the time it didn't seem important.
Things Sun licensed widely, like source kits for NFS/VFS, were things we
routinely and repeatedly sanitized as they evolved.
As part of the SPARC partners program SunOS was licensed to people
building SPARC-based products but as Warner notes in the Solbourne
experience, especially early on, there wasn't a "product" so much as a
"process" that disseminated it.
I also know
that Sun tried to donate their VM system to Berkeley btween
BSD4.3
and BSD4.4.
It would be more correct to say that Sun was willing to donate the VM
system back to Berkeley, but my recollection is that CSRG planned to get
to that functionality through a different implementation path and didn't
want it.
SVR4 before SunOS 4.0 even shipped, and so
"everyone" (even the people
who otherwise offered BSD systems) would have access to it, just like we
did. (Of course that notion of "everyone" is pretty limited but at the
time it was just The Way It Was.)
Yea, all proper licensees :).
We did donate all the shared library work to Berkeley,
probably the
closest to what we'd now call "open source" that Sun did in that era. At
the time, Berkeley didn't plan on migrating off of the a.out object file
format and so it was useful to them to have the a.out-based implementation.
Yea, BSD didn't migrate off of a.out until the fission into FreeBSD and
NetBSD
since they did things slightly differently...
Had the
support of Scott McNeely and was almost a done deal. However >
the lawyers said
that the company would need to take a 'write down' loss
on the
donation, which would likely tank the stock price of Sun, so it was
nixed.
While I am confident he would have supported it, I doubt Scott ever knew
about the donations and discussions. The organization-chart-local VP
signed off on it and I had a 10 minute phone conversation (no part of
which involved balance sheets or stock values) with the lawyer who wrote
the letter of transmittal that accompanied the code.