nondisclosure clause in SCO license

Does anyone know how serious SCO is about enforcing the nondisclosure clause from the Ancient Unix license? I'm referring to this one: 8.4 (a) LICENSEE agrees that it shall hold all parts of the SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS subject to this Agreement in confidence for SCO. LICENSEE further agrees that should it make such disclosure of any or all of such SOURCE CODE PRODUCTS (including methods or concepts utilized therein) to anyone to whom such disclosure is necessary to the use for which rights are granted hereunder, LICENSEE shall appropriately notify each such person to whom any such disclosure is made that such disclosure is made in confidence and shall be kept in confidence and have each such person sign a confidentiality agreement containing restrictions on disclosure substantially similar to those set forth herein. So if I mention to someone that (for instance) the Sixth Edition version of ed didn't have the "j" command but it was in PWB and the Seventh Edition, and I know this from reading the source code, are the SCO police going to come after me? eric Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15475 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:08 +1100 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15470 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:02 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04880; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:22 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199812142223.JAA04880(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: nondisclosure clause in SCO license To: eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu (Eric Fischer) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:22 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au In-Reply-To: &lt;199812142217.QAA03614(a)fudge.uchicago.edu&gt; from Eric Fischer at "Dec 14, 98 04:17:04 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Eric Fischer: I hope not Eric. I'll ask SCO for their impressions, and will pass them back on to the mailing list. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15495 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:28:32 +1100 (EST) Received: from coffee.corliss.net (erin(a)[12.7.121.245]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15490 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:28:24 +1100 (EST) Received: from localhost (erin@localhost) by coffee.corliss.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA00117 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:31:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:31:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Erin W. Corliss" &lt;erin(a)coffee.corliss.net&gt; To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: PDP-11/73 problems Message-ID: &lt;Pine.LNX.3.96.981214140751.32409C-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I recently bought a PDP-11/73. It has one RD-52A MFM hard drive that boots up to RSTS, eight serial ports (besides the console), and what looks like a SCSI connector on the back (labeled TK25, so I assume this is the tape drive connector). I have connected it to my PC and I am able to either boot it up from the hard drive or start up into the ROM monitor. Unfortunately, at this point I can't continue because the PDP won't receive anything through the console serial port. Does anybody know if there are any quirks about the serial port on this machine that would cause this (if, for instance, the PDP-11 required some sort of handshaking that my PC doesn't do). Also, there is a block of dip switches on the CPU card that appear to affect booting and serial port stuff. Does anyone know where there is a list of what these switches control? Furthermore.... Between the cryptically labeled switch that chooses monitor or boot mode and the knob that changes the baud rate is a knob with three settings labeled with an arrow, a talking head, and an uppercase T with an arrow orbiting it. What does this knob do? Finally, assuming that the UART on the CPU board is fried and the entire CPU board needs to be replaced before it will work again, what are the chances I could get someone who has the Unix source code to compile me a kernel that uses one of the other serial ports as the console? Thanks in advance for all of the help that I know you people will send me. 8^) -- Erin Corliss Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15515 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:30:03 +1100 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15504 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:29:56 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA04928; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:30:20 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199812142230.JAA04928(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: PDP-11/73 problems To: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net (Erin W. Corliss) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:30:20 +1100 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) In-Reply-To: &lt;Pine.LNX.3.96.981214140751.32409C-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net&gt; from "Erin W. Corliss" at "Dec 14, 98 02:31:14 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Erin W. Corliss: What version of UNIX are you running on it? Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15610 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:00:16 +1100 (EST) Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (trailing-edge.wdn.com [198.232.144.27]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA15605 for &lt;PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.adfa.edu.AU&gt;AU>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:00:03 +1100 (EST) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.adfa.edu.AU; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:59:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:59:53 -0500 From: Tim Shoppa &lt;SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com&gt; To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-Id: &lt;981214175953.2f000656(a)trailing-edge.com&gt; Subject: Re: PDP-11/73 problems Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Am I correct in assuming that up until RSTS/E is started, the console serial port seems to work fine? i.e. you can talk to ODT? RSTS/E might be picky about parity bits in some cases. (Heaven knows that it's incredibly picky about some other things!) On the other hand, your PC might not be seeing the RTS/CTS (I forget which one it'll actually be looking for) and this is the reason your keystrokes never go out. Or it might not be seeing DSR and refusing to send keystrokes because of this. Have you configured your comm software for XON/XOFF and *not* hardware flow control? dip switch near handle 1 on disables console terminal (factory use only) 2-4 off off off boot auto according to the dialog mode settings off off on boot dev. # 1 in dialog mode settings. off on off " " 2 " off on on " " 3 " on off off " " 4 " on off on " " 5 " on on off " " 6 " on on on if sw. 1 off, power up into ODT if sw. 1 on , run self-test disg. in a cont loop 5 off enters dialog mode on power up 6-8 on on on 38400 baud rate console. on on off 19200 on off on 9600 on off off 4800 off on on 2400 off on off 1200 off off on 600 off off off 300 All of these s/b turned OFF if you have the console patch panel rotary switch connected to the cpu. rotary switch positions definitions. switch pos.s v v baud rate auto boot dialog mode 38400 0 8 19200 1 9 9600 2 10 4800 3 11 2400 4 12 1200 5 13 600 6 14 300 7 15 It selects power-on mode. I think arrow means to boot straight from the default device, talking head means to go to interactive console dialog, and the T with the circle around it means infinite test loop. I'm sure it can be done, but I don't know of any that are easily persuaded to do this! It'd be far easier to disable your CPU board's console port and drop in a separate DLV11-type interface. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15820 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:44:03 +1100 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15815 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:43:55 +1100 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA05594 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:44:25 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Unix History Diagram To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:44:25 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up to date and make it more accurate. The current status of my update is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/ I'm missing details on many of the commercial versions of UNIX: + SunOS/Solaris + SysVR4.x + Ultrix + Xenix + Unixware :-) + BSDI stuff + lots more If anybody can supply release dates and relationships for systems that I don't have yet, could you email them to me with a reference where possible. This is going to be a back-burner project, I'll do a bit here and there, but hopefully by sometime next year we'll have a large wall-sized family tree for UNIX. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA16605 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:23:51 +1100 (EST) Received: from harrier.Uznet.NET (harrier.ml.org [193.220.92.194]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA16600 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:23:39 +1100 (EST) Received: from dosdev (pm9-155.dial.qual.net [205.212.2.155]) by harrier.Uznet.NET (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA09225 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:23:16 +0500 Message-Id: &lt;199812150323.IAA09225(a)harrier.Uznet.NET&gt; From: Michael Sokolov &lt;msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET&gt; Date: 15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Warren Toomey &lt;wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; wrote: I have looked at it. Note that the data files are not hyperlinked. I don't think this is intentional, is it? Being the TUHS 4BSD Coordinator :-), I feel obligated to do some work on the 4bsd data file. Quoting: Are you sure that virtual memory appears first in 3BSD? I have always thought that it's a 4BSD milestone. Page replacement and demand paging probably go with it. I would add the following comment: Further: I would add: Sorry, I don't know the Ultrix version (don't even know if it's a release and not some DEC internal code), but it's obviously among the very first. Further: I would add: Further: I would add: Back to Warren: I know that SunOS and Ultrix played key roles in the history of BSD (huge bidirectional exchange of code and ideas between CSRG, Sun, and DEC), but I don't know anything about versions and such. Just like 386BSD, FreeBSD, and NetBSD, it's based on Net/2, 4.4BSD-Lite, and 4.4BSD-Lite2. That's all I know. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA17068 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:11:10 +1100 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (root(a)flamingo.mckusick.com [209.31.233.178]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA17063 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:11:01 +1100 (EST) Received: from flamingo.McKusick.COM (mckusick@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by flamingo.McKusick.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06982; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:10:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: &lt;199812150510.VAA06982(a)flamingo.McKusick.COM&gt; To: Michael Sokolov &lt;msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET&gt; Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: Your message of "15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT." &lt;199812150323.IAA09225(a)harrier.Uznet.NET&gt; Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:10:48 -0800 From: Kirk McKusick &lt;mckusick(a)mckusick.com&gt; Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk From: Michael Sokolov &lt;msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET&gt; Date: 15 Dec 1998 03:23:10 GMT To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au ... Are you sure that virtual memory appears first in 3BSD? I have always thought that it's a 4BSD milestone. Page replacement and demand paging probably go with it. The first virtual memory release was 3BSD. It's performance was significantly improved in 4BSD. Kirk Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA17294 for pups-liszt; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:36:33 +1100 (EST) Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA17289 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:36:24 +1100 (EST) Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA29268; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:14 +1030 (CST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id SAA16328; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:15 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: &lt;19981215180615.H15815(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:15 +1030 From: Greg Lehey &lt;grog(a)lemis.com&gt; To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Cc: Unix Heritage Society &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram References: &lt;199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i In-Reply-To: &lt;199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; from Warren Toomey on Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 10:44:25AM +1100 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 X-Mutt-References: &lt;199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tuesday, 15 December 1998 at 10:44:25 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote: OK, I've dragged out some old tapes which may be of some interest: Tandem NonStop UX for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System V.2, 10 April 1987. Tandem NonStop-UX B00 for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System V.3.0, dated 22 August 1989. Tandem NonStop-UX B10 for Tandem LXN (68020), effectively System V.3.1, dated 20 September 1989. Consensys UNIX System V.4.2.1.0, in PaCkAgE DaTaStReAm mode (yup, that's what it says). I'm not sure how reliable this is, but the first package has the PSTAMP destiny921114141358, which presumably can be interpreted as a date; certainly it's plausible. BSD BSD/386, version 0.3.2. The tar archive has the date Feb 28 09:18 1992 on the first few files; presumably this is US MST. Univel Unixware 1.0, also this funny PaCkAgE DaTaStReAm. This one has a PSTAMP=SVR4.2 11/02/92. I'd assume that they really meant 2 November 1992. I've got a number of old CDs which I haven't looked at yet. I'd guess that I have most FreeBSD releases, and we can find the rest. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id AAA18317 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:22:36 +1100 (EST) Received: from illustrious (illustrious.concentric.net [207.155.252.7]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA18312 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:22:26 +1100 (EST) Received: from tholian.net ([207.155.186.37]) by illustrious (8.9.1/) id IAA20278; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:22:15 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay] Message-ID: &lt;36766225.6955995B(a)tholian.net&gt; Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:20:37 -0500 From: Joey KAHN &lt;kahn(a)tholian.net&gt; X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au CC: Unix Heritage Society &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram References: &lt;199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; &lt;19981215180615.H15815(a)freebie.lemis.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Found this on a sun web page: SunOS Solaris FCS Comments OpenWindows ----------- ------- ------- --------------------------- ----------- 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 4.0 4.0.2 Sept 89 (386i Roadrunner) 4.0.3 May 89 (Sun2, Sun3/3x, Sun4) 4.0.3c June 89 (SPARC Sun4c only) 4.0.3 PSR_A July 89 (SPARC 470/490 only) 4.1 Mar 90 (3/3x/4/4c except 470/490) 4.1 PSR_A May 90 (SPARC only for 390/490) 4.1.1 1.0 Nov 90 (All Sun3/4's) OW2.0/3.0 4.1.1B Feb 91 (SPARC only) OW2.0/3.0 4.1.1.1 July 91 (CTE patches for Sun3/3x) 4.1.1_U1 Nov 91 (Last Sun3/3x release) 4.1.2 1.0.1 Dec 91 (SPARC + Sun4m/600MP Ross) OW2.0/3.0 4.1.3 1.1A Aug 92 (All SPARC+MP,Viking S10) OW3.0 4.1.3c 1.1C Nov 93 (LX and Classic only) OW3.0 4.1.3_U1 1.1.1 Dec 93 (SPARC,LX,Classic/no-sun4d) OW3.0 4.1.3_U1b 1.1.1B Feb 94 (SPARC3.5/S10,4mm & all 1.1s) OW3.0 4.1.4 1.1.2 Sep 94 (SPARC4m [Colorado CPUs]+new WS) 5.0 2.0 July 92 (Desktop Sun4c only) OW3.0 5.1 2.1 Dec 92 (All SPARC/no-1000/2000) OW3.1 5.2 2.2 May 93 (All SPARC + 1000/2000) OW3.2 5.3 2.3 Nov 93 (All SPARC + SS10SX) OW3.3 5.3 2.3 5/94 Mar 94 (SS5-audio & Voyager) OW3.3 5.3 2.3 8/94 Sep 94 (All SPARC+SSA+S24 fb) 5.4 2.4 Dec 94 (All SPARC + Intel) OW3.4 5.4 2.4 3/95 Mar 95 (All SPARC+SSA) OW3.4 5.5 2.5 Nov 95 (All SPARC+Fusion-[NO SUN4/SUN4E]+SSA) OW3.5 All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used to be... More research: first patch in Sun patch library: Patch-ID# 100001-01 Keywords: cc stack overflow local variable Synopsis: C compiler: stack overflow: too many local variables Date: 20-Apr-88 SunOS release: 3.4, 3.5 Sun's bug database still contains bug reports going back to 3.2 (heck, even 2.2 and 1.0) but none of them have dates ;((( Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA18903 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:10:43 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA18895 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:10:33 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA26443; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:04:12 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" &lt;rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199812151504.KAA26443(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram In-Reply-To: &lt;199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt; from Warren Toomey at "Dec 15, 98 10:44:25 am" To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:04:11 -0500 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk A couple of lesser known BSDish oddities from Big Blue.... Add IBM's AOS. That was a straight 4.3BSD port dating from 1987 or 1988. This was the only official port for the RT-PC hardware. Add IBM's unofficial ``Reno'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.3/4.4 port dating from 1991 or 1992. It was apparently done by IBM or IBM contractors. It looks very straight 4.4, in appearance. Add IBM's unoffical ``4.4Lite'' port. That was a somewhere between 4.4 and the real Lite dating from 1994 or 1995. It was apparently done by IBM or IBM contractors, with source trees from two development streams combined together to resolve developmental divergences. They all were used on the RT-PC hardware (ROMP Risc processor). The 4.3 is very nice. Code size about 75 megs binary. It runs fine on a small machine with 8 megs ram and 115 megs HD, or the biggest RT class machine. The C compilers are slightly broken, but usually can be worked around (good old pcc seems the best). The Reno is fair to good, but missing things like working tape I/O. You can tar or dump, but no other tape functions work correctly. Code size about 150 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD. I dunno exactly how ``Reno'' it really is. The 4.4Lite is fair to good, but still missing working tape I/O. Code size about 300 megs binary. It needs 16M ram and 300mb HD. Bloat seems to have set in on this one, since the whole system is well over 1 gig in size. It barely will run on two 300mb HD. The login says it is 4.4Lite and not straight 4.4. There is no indication of how pure ``Lite'' it really is. I dunno anything about how these originated developmentally, but the AOS seems to be vanilla 4.3BSD and all else may have developed from that, possibly after the RT line became back-burner stuff. I would be very interested in any history from anyone on the list that was around IBM at the time on these. ....... Add Xenix for the Radio Shack 16B machines on 8 inch floppers. That seems to date from around 1982 or 1983, although I have misplaced my disks on that one, and don't have the machine anymore. I was thinking someone on the list had one of those beasts running? That is all I can think of offhand to add..... Bob Keys p.s. Anyone got a spare V7ish Xenix they would part with for x86 hardware? I would like to try a native suite rather than an emulator, if possible. There were one or two such ports I am thinking like Xenix, Microport, or PC-IX maybe? I just missed one a few days ago at out state surplus house, when I picked it up, looked at it, set it down, and then someone else grabbed it... oh, well....(:+{{..... Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA19970 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:43:04 +1100 (EST) Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA19965 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:42:55 +1100 (EST) Received: (from rdkeys@localhost) by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA26799; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:36:37 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rdkeys) From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" &lt;rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; Message-Id: &lt;199812151836.NAA26799(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks In-Reply-To: &lt;19981215122947.B11834(a)rek.tjls.com&gt; from Thor Lancelot Simon at "Dec 15, 98 12:29:47 pm" To: tls(a)rek.tjls.com Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:36:37 -0500 (EST) Cc: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User RDKEYS Robert D. Keys) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Please do! I would like to see that. I did see at one time Tahoe mentioned, but I did not understand how the IBM ports were related through that. There are so few folks around that know anything about these IBM critters, even on the old RT newsfeed. Most of the stuff has become dumpster fodder, sadly, although I had the good fortune this past week to resurrect two RT's from the dumpster, and get one up by combining sufficient parts to get it to boot. What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite, on non-standard hardware? The books get somewhat obscure on this unless running VAXen or HP300's or such. The RT is a little bit non-standard. I was thinking it was a 68000ish machine in IBM's wrappers, but others have said it was distinctly different from a 68000 based line. Also, I can't find anyone that was in on the AOS project enough to know from whence it was originally derived. The dating seems to be 1987 or 1988. Was Tahoe around then? Salus suggests straight 4.3 was June of 1986, and Tahoe was June of 1988 (Salus, p. 165). Anyone around CSRG then that remembers when IBM got what code? Salus does not mention any IBM AOS stuff, only the mainframe stuff. AOS seems to be mostly a sleeper, almost forgotten in time. ..... There is a Finnish repository that has some of it relating to the 4.3 port, and one or two other RTish archives. Try something like jumo.luti.fi, or jumi.luto.fi, or something like that, but I don't have the url exactly, and can't find the stick'em note where I ran across it. Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was. There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS, but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure. I would hope the old RT boxes and AOS would fall under the Antique Unix umbrella, and thus, be amenable to the PUPS archives scope of things. But, I am only a newbie voice in the crowd..... floppies. The main boot floppy is the sautils disk (stand alone utilities). That then loads a miniroot floppy that does the scripted install. The scripts don't work unless you have the original tapes, and the orignal hardware configuration which was a pair of 70mb esdi drives. The installation needs to be done manually, instead, if the hardware differs from that. It should be a straight 4.3 style restore process. I guess they expected only to have dual 70mb esdi drives in the old RT tower machines, as AOS platforms. The first tape is the combined root and user dumps to hd0a and hd0g. The second tape is the source tree dump to hd1g. That is how I understand it. There were some manuals for it, but noone seems to know anything about those anymore, and what info I have is more sketchy than for sure. There was also some other machine called an ``Academic Machine'' that was a siamesed ROMP processor on a Model 60 PS/2 MCA bus machine. I have not exactly understood how that thing actually worked, and noone on the net seems to have one, although there are two ROMP boards that are reputed to still exist that plug into the MCA Model 60 PS/2 box. Apparently the Model 60 was the terminal/disk IO system and the ROMP board ran the BSD. The thing will tar/dump to the tape, but won't retension or erase correctly. If you know what that patch was, I would be interested in it, for sure. I assume it has to do with something like twiddling the right hardware ports with the right bit patterns, maybe, to run the retension and erase functions on the hardware. I am curious, though, and wonder if something like the 4.3 mt, which does work, would work correctly in the Lite suite. I was of the impression that there was some binary compatibility between 4.3 and 4.4/4.4-Lite, but I am not sure. ..... I have no idea how pure or impure the code is. I came along so late in the song and dance act that I don't know enough of the internals to compare, yet. So much to learn..... Years ago I bounced this off our IBM rep, but went to AIX on the PS/2, instead of the RT BSD. I did not know very much then, nor now....(:+{{..... Who all on the list were IBM'ers in that era that might still remember enough of this to fill us in? The history is half the fun, and sure makes the perspective on the rest more interesting and well rounded. Anyone on the list actually playing around and running an RT? I am beginning to feel very lowendian that I am not on a PDP11, VAX, HP300 or such.....{:+{{... but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me. Bob Keys Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA20122 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:15:11 +1100 (EST) Received: from harrier.Uznet.NET (harrier.ml.org [193.220.92.194]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA20114 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:14:57 +1100 (EST) Received: from dosdev (pm8-143.dial.qual.net [205.212.2.143]) by harrier.Uznet.NET (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA10682 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:14:31 +0500 Message-Id: &lt;199812151914.AAA10682(a)harrier.Uznet.NET&gt; From: Michael Sokolov &lt;msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET&gt; Date: 15 Dec 1998 19:14:23 GMT To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: A program to read tapes in a snap Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Dear PUPS/TUHS members, While exchanging tapes and tape images with a number of people on this list, I have mentioned the existence of this program to a number of people, but so far I haven't given it to anyone. Now I'm posting it to the list for everyone's benefit. This program can read a tape on a UNIX box without the user having to know anything about its format. This program automatically determines how many files are on the tape, what is the record size for each, and whether there are any oddities such as partial records. It saves each tape file into a separate disk file and produces a log of everything found on the tape. It's a simple C program and should compile and run on virtually any UNIX or UNIX-like system. The original version was written by one guy I met on another list once and then it was significantly enhanced by me. I include it below as a uuencoded gzipped tarball. Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Cellular phone: 216-217-2579 ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET Enclosure: uuencoded cptape.tar.gz: begin 644 cptape.tar.gz M'XL("`ZQ=C8``V-P=&%P92YT87(`[5AM4QLW$.:K]2L$-(,-QOC`.!D[ID,( MM&D)S$#2-YKIB#N=?<-9<N_D&)KPW[N[.OGN'%+:SD`^Y'8FPTE:[<NS;W)> MBRL91K%<>D#RVNUNI\.7./?:W1W\RSN[M+;D=9YRWNWN[.[NM+>];6)K[R[Q M]D,:Y6B:&I%POC2^3CO=?^![.PS.'\.>1Z95M@H1>)UE`0]UPOV)$1/)5AD[ M??'#H#86D6II=GYVD'W[C!T<'>]_=SZH;9XR9ME[M6_JP-Y@-=_G]I-O:B>+ M?6DW*_H,G1WNOWQ]^+`Z[JE_K[-=J/^=I\C6WNU6]?\89`N4)U($*1><%I'B M6DF>CK1I\DDL_$@-N13^R!Y3HXB4T<"?RHE(A)$\B-(K1B="!3S6PR%>,B/D MA*8R%B;2BHM+/36@S-=)P-/H+YFV7`,A13+]-WKLB1)C&?`U_&XIM=;DLY%, M)%.*1RDI-C.]&43#R,#M/Z=2F4C$7$W'ES+A.B06$@1V$3OJK(/O@?2CL8@9 M)H9!+V:1&?&VUVCQ-R.9VEL`5B*Y#[@9L"*R(OQIDH`>,!)<-#JY:?$C:*AF M%*4,.%.MR$I%&lt;*-DP96&lt;D&gt;8F03[3TSC(a)&quot;O&amp;*XYM,/&#x27;#-!5*#CDR3^0$&#x27;8.&quot;+ M\$ZF*FNU/$ST&(U))$![,I=D#R&DJ.!2T@V1@K@XUK.T-X_"9DSF6!>?IQ/` M0L1[C!&X^8;#&(/@P$R$=04`?!_YH,SR$EQ-+EO#5I-MP=F62L:FC6""D%D4 MQ[F?=P667*:L6(P60]?+E^:VK]FH"1Y'J4$+`88\K5)[2E;GR<B<IM;7,Z_L M1']8'??T_]W=;KO0_]O(MMWUJO[_&+2USOBZ:P^;W->3FV*90.%,U972,^4* M)99J:$9P:8NQU4CY\33`OF""2+=&>X6MT%<F+F_))%$+7.E-ND65#KML-8#B MA39X\N+M48V>!J@CI#7?@U7Y7J3]3(-4010R!L."#Z71$\/KC3Z3UT8FT!A' M$.!UV!3)<+Z)K+`5J:")?\&R?JX?U)V_^NW0FM#=>=:I;:WS?1_]IZFF^1C& M6;W3:/*QN+9X7<;:O[)MI`8$H&(W.3\X?T7GJ6M</^W_@LW3Z_[8RABWR'`6 M:`2_COT[!*-@A"(N#7+*;O;9T:OC0[Z>'?79!X860@*;R(<XI=%001,D?R^G M82B3B\R3=WWBG+/$&MRP`57:GI$:D*HG,)\&O+UP`X\@H'#BY?Q&HU&X(IVP M!"[LQ!?/[M1(\]%'C`!L/$:(ZOW^W)2-C0;_P&K$?'EC9(J#$GAKE#G6K-K\ M`-;X9PZ9];GIP@<94(/DJ>?\SWF;Y*/J"8C427UE_OQ907X\2:290H9X?5I! 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M_G'V\O3D^%?HEIE7-*6S&]0NT9]YN8`$>O'9_Q9QI9-CXY6QR<KH,T^Y/I3' BEW[O5U1111555%%%%5544445551115\?_0UI&$I7`"@``)6Q ` end Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA20201 for pups-liszt; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:34:19 +1100 (EST) Received: from fw0.transarc.com (xfw.transarc.com [192.54.226.51]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA20196 for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au&gt;au>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 06:34:09 +1100 (EST) Received: from mailhost2.transarc.com (mailhost2.transarc.com [158.98.14.14]) by fw0.transarc.com (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10918; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:32:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from smithfield.transarc.com (smithfield.transarc.com [158.98.16.10]) by mailhost2.transarc.com (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id OAA01327; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:34:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:34:00 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Barron &lt;pat(a)transarc.com&gt; Reply-To: Pat Barron &lt;pat(a)transarc.com&gt; To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" &lt;rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks In-Reply-To: &lt;199812151836.NAA26799(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu&gt; Message-ID: &lt;Pine.GSO.3.96.981215141724.4474C-100000(a)smithfield.transarc.com&gt; MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote: No, the ROMP (the RT's CPU) is a RISC CPU. I have a processor reference for the C-ROMP (the CMOS version that was on the 6152 Academic Workstation), but I only have hardcopy. That would probably be me. I'm still looking - I have a call in right now to someone who might be able to help. Best bet would probably be someone at the ITC or the CS department, or the Andrew Consortium. Don't really know many of those folks anymore, though, and not sure if anyone from the right time period is still around. I have one in my living room.... Yes, your description is pretty much correct. The C-ROMP co-processor plugs into the Model 60 (though I don't know why it couldn't be used with another type of Microchannel PS/2). The co-processor card has the C-ROMP CPU, support hardware, and memory. To IPL the thing, you run a DOS program on the PS/2 that loads the boot program into the C-ROMP memory, and twiddles some bits that start the processor. The C-ROMP board pretty much takes over the machine, and uses the PS/2 itself as an I/O processor. --Pat.