2 Mar
1998
2 Mar
'98
2:32 a.m.
Steven was
expecting to see a substantial hit due to the ZIP's access time,
Quite so. Especially on the 'find' which is almost pure 'seek'
operations.
Wasn't there mention somewhere of a 200mb Zip? I know there's the
2gb Jaz drive now but haven't heard anymore about a larger Zip. On
the other hand there is the Syquest product line - they've a 135mb
"zip like" (but not compatible) drive. From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 2 07:47:07 1998
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au
[131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27176
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:46:51 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA01813 for
pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:47:07 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803012147.IAA01813(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:47:07 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk
All,
re the question `Are CD-ROMs the best method of distributing the
PUPS archive of PDP-11 UNIX material'? The answer is: it's a good method, for
the following reasons:
+ you can't easily write over the CD-ROM
+ impervious to magnetic fields
+ the PUPS archive is always going to be changing, as I find and
add new stuff to it.
+ the SCO license enforces that I get written permission before I
pass anything to a third party. Taking this in a conservative
fashion, this might rule out a password-protected ftp archive.
However, I'll check with Dion at SCO on this.
+ we can only charge fees for copying and distribution, and cannot
make money on the CD-ROMs
Therefore, treat the archive CD-ROM like you would the FreeBSD or Linux
distributions on CD-ROM: they will go out of date, but you can purchase
new versions of the CD-ROM, and they should be relatively inexpensive.
Ok, so CD-ROMs are not the _best_ method of distributing the archive, but
they are a _good_ way of doing so.
Ciao,
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27230
for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:09:37 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Mar 2
08:09:25 1998
Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com
[192.109.197.134])
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27225
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:09:32 +1100 (EST)
Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137])
by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA07315;
Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:39:25 +1030 (CST)
Received: (from grog@localhost)
by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id IAA07427;
Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:39:25 +1030 (CST)
(envelope-from grog)
Message-ID: <19980302083925.10323(a)freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:39:25 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
References: <199803012147.IAA01813(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i
In-Reply-To: <199803012147.IAA01813(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; from Warren Toomey on Mon,
Mar 02, 1998 at 08:47:07AM +1100
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
Mobile: +61-41-739-7062
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk
On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 8:47:07 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
All,
re the question `Are CD-ROMs the best method of distributing the
PUPS archive of PDP-11 UNIX material'? The answer is: it's a good method, for
the following reasons:
+ you can't easily write over the CD-ROM
+ impervious to magnetic fields
+ the PUPS archive is always going to be changing, as I find and
add new stuff to it.
+ the SCO license enforces that I get written permission before I
pass anything to a third party. Taking this in a conservative
fashion, this might rule out a password-protected ftp archive.
However, I'll check with Dion at SCO on this.
+ we can only charge fees for copying and distribution, and cannot
make money on the CD-ROMs
Therefore, treat the archive CD-ROM like you would the FreeBSD or Linux
distributions on CD-ROM: they will go out of date, but you can purchase
new versions of the CD-ROM, and they should be relatively inexpensive.
I still miss the distinction between CD-ROMs and WORMs. CD-ROMs are
relatively expensive in small quantities, not just because of the
setup costs, but also because of the wastage involved. WORMs
(writeable CD-ROMs) are probably a better choice for the anticipated
volume.
Greg
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27282
for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:29:10 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 2 08:29:23 1998
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au
[131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27277
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:29:06 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA01996 for
pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:29:23 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803012229.JAA01996(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:29:23 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <19980302083925.10323(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Mar
2, 98 08:39:25 am"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Greg Lehey:
On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 8:47:07 +1100, Warren Toomey
wrote:
Sorry, my fault. I use CD-ROM to mean anything which can be read in a CD-ROM
drive. That obviously includes CD-W, which is what I really mean here.
Ciao,
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA27317
for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:38:20 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
All,
re the question `Are CD-ROMs the best method of distributing the
PUPS archive of PDP-11 UNIX material'? The answer is: it's a good method,
for the following reasons:
I still miss the distinction between CD-ROMs and WORMs.
CD-ROMs are
relatively expensive in small quantities, not just because of the
setup costs, but also because of the wastage involved. WORMs
(writeable CD-ROMs) are probably a better choice for the anticipated
volume.
Greg From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 2 08:38:33 1998
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au
[131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27312
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:38:17 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA02051 for
pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:38:33 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803012238.JAA02051(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:38:33 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199803012228.OAA27094(a)rainbow.Corp.Sun.COM> from Chris Drake at
"Mar 1, 98 02:28:21 pm"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Chris Drake:
Ok, so CD-ROMs
are not the _best_ method of distributing the archive, but
they are a _good_ way of doing so.
Sounds good to me... Just out of curiosity, got any idea how many people are
on this list and/or might want a CD? I may have a limited ability to cut
some at work, but not if we're talking lots. From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Mar 2
10:17:01 1998
Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com
[192.109.197.134])
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27501
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:17:24 +1100 (EST)
Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137])
by allegro.lemis.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07479;
Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:47:02 +1030 (CST)
Received: (from grog@localhost)
by freebie.lemis.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) id KAA07855;
Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:47:01 +1030 (CST)
(envelope-from grog)
Message-ID: <19980302104701.60748(a)freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:47:01 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
References: <199803012228.OAA27094(a)rainbow.Corp.Sun.COM>
<199803012238.JAA02051(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i
In-Reply-To: <199803012238.JAA02051(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; from Warren Toomey on Mon,
Mar 02, 1998 at 09:38:33AM +1100
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
Mobile: +61-41-739-7062
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk
On Mon, 2 March 1998 at 9:38:33 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
In article by Chris Drake:
I'd say at least 100 initially, and at least 300 in the first 12 months.
I'm trying to organise a bunch of people who can burn CDs, to keep the
individual workload down.
I'll be creating a Rock Ridge image using mkisofs from the archive here.
People who are prepared to burn CDs can either download the image, or the
entire archive. For the latter, I'll include a makefile to build the CD image.
Oviously, people who do mirror the archive:
+ will be asked to burn CDs, and will do so,
As I mentioned before, I can cut tapes, but not burn CDs. I think
this is still a valuable service.
Ok, so
CD-ROMs are not the _best_ method of distributing the archive, but
they are a _good_ way of doing so.
Sounds good to me... Just out of curiosity, got any idea how many people are
on this list and/or might want a CD? I may have a limited ability to cut
some at work, but not if we're talking lots. + must be covered by a license. I will need either a
signed
letter (on paper) describing the license, or a PGP-signed
email describing the license, before I can give access to
the archive.
Right. Any further news about when this could happen?
Does this sound reasonable, everyone?
Modulo my point above, yes.
Greg
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27526
for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:24:46 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 2 10:25:00 1998
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au
[131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27521
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:24:43 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA06066 for
pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:25:00 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803020025.LAA06066(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP UNIX and CD-ROMs
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:25:00 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk
Greg writes:
Oviously,
people who do mirror the archive:
will be asked to burn CDs, and will do so,
As I mentioned before, I can cut tapes, but not burn CDs. I think
this is still a valuable service. Right. Any further news about when this could happen?
No, I'm waiting on feedback from Dion. He did say he had started the
process of making it a product, but I don't have an ETA for it at the
moment.
Many thanks again for volunteering!!
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27839
for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:41:04 +1100 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 2 11:41:16 1998
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au
[131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27834
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:40:59 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA06698 for
pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:41:16 +1100 (EST)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803020141.MAA06698(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Part of PUPS Archive via FTP
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:41:16 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk
All,
To show you what I'm thinking of for the CD-ROM version of the
PUPS archive, I've put the unlicensed parts up for anonymous ftp at:
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11/PUPS_Archive/
I've kept the directory structure intact, but you won't find any files
that require a source license. I'd appreciate any comments. Note that
there's a directory called Trees missing. It will contain `exploded'
trees for v6, v7 and 2.11BSD.
The Lists directory is interesting: it contains tar vtf listings of all
tarballs in the archive, with added checksums so you can determine identical
files in multiple tarballs.
This is all rough cut at the moment, so don't treat anything as unchangeable.
Warren