Re: The Unix Society

Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes: It is, isn't it? Sincerely, Michael Sokolov Phone: 216-368-6888 (Office) 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular) ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)blackwidow.CWRU.Edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12785 for pups-liszt; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:45:30 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12780 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:45:26 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA15453 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:45:52 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199808030345.NAA15453(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: What to do now with PUPS To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:45:52 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9808030315.AA18511(a)blackwidow.SOML.CWRU.Edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Aug 2, 98 11:15:15 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Michael Sokolov: I'd just like to comment on Michael's e-mail, just for the record. The PDP-11 UNIX Preservation Society was, at one point, just me. I'd had help from Steven Schultz, Tim Shoppa, John Wilson and Torsten Hippe, and my personal goal was to get copies of 6th and 7th Edition Unix, for historical reasons. Since then, people with similar interests have accumulated. We've set up a mailing list, web page etc. Steven and I took months to lobby SCO to make source licenses available. We started in late '95/early '96. Again, we were driven by our own personal goals of making cheap licenses for PDP-11 UNIXes available. We were also guided by the web-based survey, see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/pdpquiz_sum.html, which showed an awful lot more interest for PDP-11 UNIXes than 32-bit UNIXes. Yes, PUPS has been hung up on PDP-11s. There's no denying that. It's a result of the personal drives that Steven, I, and the other active members of the mailing list have. If we have caused grief to the VAX users, it was unintentional. The license that we negotiated with SCO was based as much on our personal goals as on pragmatics. During the negotiations, it became apparent that: + There was a substantial bloc at SCO who didn't want ANY license + For the rest, Research Editions 1 to 7 was ok + 32V was dubious: most people didn't want this licensed + System III was also dubious + System V was definitely right out: nobody wanted this licensed The fact that we got 32V on the SCO license was, in my opinion, damn lucky, even though I pushed and pushed and pushed for this to be included. SCO, for their part, probably feel that they have limited the `damage' by only licensing the 16-bit systems, and 32V (grudgingly). Now why was I pushing 32V so hard? Because I knew it would open the path for CSRG to release the BSD flavours. This is the ONLY reason why I fought so hard for it to be included in the license. Hopefully this has filled in some of the background on the behind-the-scenes work. I agree that, up to now, the effort has concentrated on the 16-bit systems. I knew that, by getting 32V into the license, it would give scope for the 32-bit systems. At the same time, there was NO WAY that SCO would have licensed any other 32-bit system. The license we have reflects SCO's legal concerns as much as the negotiators' PDP preference. However, 32V is licensed, and Kirk will be selling the CRSG BSD releases on a 4-CD set next week. A fair proportion of PDP-11 UNIX history has been saved. Now it's time for those with a preference for other systems to extend what has been achieved. Go for it! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12836 for pups-liszt; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:03:57 +1000 (EST) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA12831 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:03:53 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA15507 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:04:19 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199808030404.OAA15507(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: The UNIX Heritage Society To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:04:19 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <19980803125616.F25574(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Aug 3, 98 12:56:16 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk In article by Greg Lehey: Michael writes: Heritage means: that which may be inherited. I think this is appropriate, as we have all inherited a wonderful system from Ken and Dennis. In fact, we've inherited the UNIX paradigm, which influences the way we think. My dictionary says a patriot is one who is zealous for his country's freedom or rights, and a zealot is an uncompromising or extreme partisan or fanatic. I would also have a problem being a "Patriot". If I was uncompromising, we would have no cheap SCO license. I don't think we need to retro-fit a name into the PUPS acronym. I'm still in favour of The UNIX Heritage Society. For those unaccustomed to the amount of traffic on the PUPS list, don't forget that you can switch to the digest version. echo 'subscribe pups-digest' | mail majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA12985 for pups-liszt; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:54:42 +1000 (EST) Received: from nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (nighthawk.iti.gov.sg [192.122.131.51]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA12980 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:54:35 +1000 (EST) Received: (from mailer@localhost) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg (8.6.11/8.6.11) id MAA12622; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:20:46 +0800 Received: from mailhub.iti.gov.sg(192.122.132.132) by nighthawk.iti.gov.sg via smap (V1.3) id sma012619; Mon Aug 3 12:20:28 1998 Received: (from joerg@localhost) by iti.gov.sg (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA04106; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:00:43 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <19980803120042.27955(a)krdl.org.sg> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:00:42 +0800 From: Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg> To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)blackwidow.SOML.CWRU.Edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: The Unix Society References: <9808030331.AA18573(a)blackwidow.SOML.CWRU.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.88e In-Reply-To: <9808030331.AA18573(a)blackwidow.SOML.CWRU.Edu>du>; from Michael Sokolov on Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 11:31:14PM -0400 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk Mikhail, On Sun, Aug 02, 1998 at 11:31:14PM -0400, Michael Sokolov wrote: Last time I met Greg he was still able to read, although he needs glasses already. I think that his glasses actually do a very good job since he was figuring that the license explicitely blocks access to System V and friends (Please read your own email again). The thing is that there are people out there who really enjoy the PDP-11 as a smart machine. Those people presumably have written code for this machine in assembler. Another group of people is interested in the early roots of unix. The PDP-11 in that case serves as a host for this interest. But the historic interest does not stop at the hardware of the PDP-11, it is rather an interest in the full life cycle of the OS. 32V, while important, is really a hack rather than a 32bit port of the UNIX or BSD operating system. Those people who make statements about 32bit UNIX not being available are very likely aware of this fact, either because they where there at the time this happend, or, like myself, have devoured every interesting UNIX book around and have also come across Peter H. Salus' A quater century of UNIX. You might find it interesting to read, too. With respect to PUPS I do understand that we are interested in the history of UNIX and that the term Warren coined fits exactly our idea. There is nothing wrong with renaming PUPS but leave the email alias as it is. Those interested in the history of the society (we are getting recursive on history by now) can read on the Web Page that we originally dealt with the Preservation of the PDP-11 UNIX only. Regards, Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)krdl.org.sg> SingAREN Technology Center Phone: +65 7705577 Kent Ridge Digital Labs (pron: curdle) Fax: +65 7795966 11 Science Park Road Pager: +65 96016020 Singapore Science Park II Plan: Troubleshooting ATM 117685 Singapore Networks and Applications Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13010 for pups-liszt; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:00:35 +1000 (EST) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA13005 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:00:29 +1000 (EST) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id BAA09014; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (TheWorld/Spike-2.0) id AA11935; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:00:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:00:18 -0700 (PST) From: Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: The Unix Society In-Reply-To: <199808022335.JAA12929(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <Pine.SGI.3.95.980802215441.8525C-100000(a)world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Warren Toomey wrote: I seem to recall a direct quote of either Thompson or Ritchie saying that they'd intended to use the name "Unix" instead of "UNIX" but that is what the OS was trademarked with by the Bell Labs lawyers. It may have been on one of their personal web pages that I read it. -brian. --- Brian "JARAI" Chase | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ | VAXZilla LIVES!!! Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA14184 for pups-liszt; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:11:15 +1000 (EST)