5 Mar
1998
5 Mar
'98
5:38 p.m.
On Mar 5, 12:59, Stacy Minkin wrote:
Currently I've started KDF11 and it seems to be
ok.
Problems are: It has lots of switches (the same for MSV-11 boards and
RQDX3 and all of that)
You probably don't need to change anyhing on the RQDX3 -- they're usually set
up correctly (because they'e not often changed :-)
Same story with RQDX3 - currently I have no RDx disks
so I thought
that boot my system from RX50 is not a bad idea... I've plugged
standard 5 inch floppy to RQDX3 sig. dist. connector labeled "RX50"
and fired up the machine. Got nothing.
During init, the RQDX3 probes the disk(s) to see what's there. For a floppy,
it checks for an RX50 by selecting the drive, finding track zero, and then
switching the side select. On a real RX50, which actually behaves as two
separate single-sided drives, this turns off the track zero signal; but not on
any normal drive. There's a way to fool it, but you need to modify the drive
or add a little circuitry. However, if you can find an RX33-compatible drive,
that would be more useful anyway.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Fri Mar
6 02:25:43 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803051625.AA03469(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Hardware guru needed!
To: stacy(a)asia.uznet.net (Stacy Minkin)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca
In-Reply-To: <199803050759.MAA00282(a)harrier.asiasys.com> from "Stacy
Minkin" at Mar 5, 98 12:59:48 pm
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Those new machine is the
main reason for joining to this list for me.
It includes: KDF-11 CPU, RQDX3, DHQ11 8 line async option,
TQK70 tape controller, 1.5Mbyte of memory etc. etc.
I also have the complete BSD2.9 source distribution
in tar file and like to run all of the above.
Big problem: BSD2.9 doesn't support your disk (RQDX3) or tape (TQK70)
controllers. I'd suggest BSD2.11, but it doesn't run on your CPU.
Currently I've started KDF11 and it seems to be
ok.
Problems are: It has lots of switches (the same for MSV-11 boards and
RQDX3 and all of that) and have very little docs about
how to set it correctly.
The best place to ask about these things would be the usenet newsgroup
vmsnet.pdp-11.
Tim.
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From "Steven M. Schultz"
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Mar 6 04:07:15 1998
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Subject: Re: Hardware guru needed!
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Hi -
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
That's almost two problems :-)
It might be possible to retrofit [T]MSCP support into 2.9 but it would
be a lot of work and a system with both MSCP and non-MSCP devices
would be required.
Swapping out the cpu card for a KDJ-11AB (M8192 if my memory hasn't
completely faded) wouldn't be too expensive and would speed things
up too. Hmmm, might need a MXV11 bootrom card. Perhaps a KDJ-11BB
would be a better way to go.
Steven Schultz
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Those new machine is the main reason for joining
to this list for me.
It includes: KDF-11 CPU, RQDX3, DHQ11 8 line async option,
TQK70 tape controller, 1.5Mbyte of memory etc. etc.
Big problem: BSD2.9 doesn't support your disk (RQDX3) or tape (TQK70)
controllers. I'd suggest BSD2.11, but it doesn't run on your CPU. From "Daniel A. Seagraves"
<DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> Fri Mar 6 06:23:21 1998
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:23:21 -0800
From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
Subject: Just got V7 going on 11/83...
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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I just got V7 to load on my 11/83. Killes 2 hours playing wump.
Who says you need grpahics for games?
:)
Anyway, I know there's no source liscense yet, but can I get someone to
build a kernel for me? I wouldn't have to see source... It'd be real neat
to hang this off a termserver and allow telnets... I'm gonna do that
with my RSTS box real soon, the only limitation here is that V7 is only built
with support for the console.
I have the V7 image downloaded from DEC. I kermitted it to the 83, and did
COPY v7.DSK/FILE DL0:/DEVICE
It truncated something, but FSCK says the pack is fine.
I have to load RT-11 from the MSCP, then say BOOT/FOR DL0: to start V7, though
because if I tell the ROM to load DL0, it dies saying the disk isn't bootable.
But at least it runs!
-------
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From Nickolai Zeldovich <kolya(a)zepa.net> Fri Mar
6 07:12:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 16:12:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Nickolai Zeldovich <kolya(a)zepa.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: PDP Prompt?
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Hello,
I'm trying to revive a PDP 11/04, but not having much luck at the moment..
I got a serial terminal hooked up to it, and upon bootup, it gives me the
following on the display:
<triangle sign><triangle sign> 177777 177776
$
apparently, $ is some sort of a prompt. It only accepts two characters,
and after, it seems, any pair of characters, will go on and give me a new
prompt.
Is this some sort of a ROM debugger? What can I tell it? I think I've
tried almost every combination of 2 letters without any success..
Some info about the PDP:
It's a 11/04, with a dual 8" floppy drive and some big cage made by MTS,
with nothing in it but a large number of slots. Has some buttons saying
'STATION 1 DUMP', 'STATION 2 DUMP', and so on.. The floppy drive has
two
8" floppies in it, one of them appears to be some sort of a system floppy,
the other has no label.
Does this look like even remotely salvageable? :)
-- [ Nickolai Zeldovich // nickolai(a)zepa.net ]
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From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Fri Mar
6 07:52:14 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803052152.AA01812(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: PDP Prompt?
To: kolya(a)zepa.net (Nickolai Zeldovich)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:52:14 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980305160751.25074A-100000(a)orbit.zepa.net> from
"Nickolai Zeldovich" at Mar 5, 98 04:12:44 pm
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I'm trying to revive a PDP 11/04, but not having
much luck at the moment..
I got a serial terminal hooked up to it, and upon bootup, it gives me the
following on the display:
<triangle sign><triangle sign> 177777 177776
$
apparently, $ is some sort of a prompt. It only accepts two characters,
and after, it seems, any pair of characters, will go on and give me a new
prompt.
Is this some sort of a ROM debugger? What can I tell it? I think I've
tried almost every combination of 2 letters without any success..
Commands available at this prompt include:
L<space>nnnnnn<CR> - to set an address
E<space> - to examine the address set with L
D<space>nnnnnn<CR> - to deposit at an address set with L
S<CR> - begin running at the loaded address
The console ROM is very picky; all letters need to be in upper case,
and you need to type <space> and <CR> in exactly the right places.
It's also very stupid, in that if you try to Examine or Deposit to
a non-existent address, the only clue you get is that the RUN light on
the goes out and you have restart it from the front.
It's a 11/04, with a dual 8" floppy drive
and some big cage made by MTS,
with nothing in it but a large number of slots. Has some buttons saying
'STATION 1 DUMP', 'STATION 2 DUMP', and so on.. The floppy drive has
two
8" floppies in it, one of them appears to be some sort of a system floppy,
the other has no label.
Does this look like even remotely salvageable? :)
It'll never run a modernish Unix, but it will run RT-11 just fine.
Is the floppy controller a DEC RX211 (M8256) or RX11 (M7846) or some
third-party clone? Are there any boot ROM's on the M9312? The RX01
boot ROM is 23-753A9, and the RX02 boot rom is 23-811A9. If you've
got a third party RX clone controller, it may have the boot ROM on that
board. Try examining addresses 173000, 173200, 173400, 173600, and
171000 to see if a boot ROM might be living at any of these addresses.
As this is very non-Unix related, you might want to ask any other questions
you have on a more general PDP-11 related forum, such as the Usenet newsgroup
"vmsnet.pdp-11".
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
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From Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net> Fri Mar
6 15:34:38 1998
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:34:38 +0500
From: Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net>
Message-Id: <199803060534.KAA00190(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Re: Hardware guru needed
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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What backplane? There are 16, 18 and 22 bit address
backplanes and
using the smaller with the larger memory generally does not work and
give an address error.
I prefer to use part/model number like H9273(a
backplane) or
M8259(memory).
How actually distinguish these backplanes?
I can check whether extended address lines are routed to slots, if
it sufficient - ok. If not - are there more differencies?
What you need is a copy of the dec hand books that list
all those details.
Any of the volumes from the mid to late 80s would help.
No chance to get it in xUSSR!
Standard floppy? You can use a DEC RX50 or an
RX33(teacfd55gfv). If
using the latter *all* of the jumper must be set up correctly in the
drive. The RX33 is a 1.2m 5.25" drive with speed select. You cannot
use a PC 5.25 360k drive or a 3.5" drive(actually it's possible but,
very non standard and unhelpful to you at this time).
Which logical drive address should be set on floppy?
Unless the jumpers or switches on the RQDX3 were messed
with the defalt
addresses and config are usually the way they are set and fit for use.
The time I got RQDX3 it's address was set wrong. I've changed it immediately
but there are lots of other switches...
For the RDxx you can use a ST225(rd31), st251(rd32),
QUANTUM D540(rd52),
micropolus 1325(rd53) or MAXTOR2990(RD54) if they are formatted correctly.
or any other drive that matches the number of heads and cylinders of those
listed. Note those are all MFM type drives.
Has anyone formatter?
Allison
Stacy
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From Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net> Fri Mar
6 15:50:05 1998
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Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:50:05 +0500
From: Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net>
Message-Id: <199803060550.KAA00239(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Re: hardware guru needed
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Big problem: BSD2.9 doesn't support your disk
(RQDX3) or tape (TQK70)
controllers. I'd suggest BSD2.11, but it doesn't run on your CPU.
No problem. I can write this drivers.
Pete Tornbull wrote about triggering
"TRACK0" signal in responce to triggering
"SIDE SEL". Is it the only difference?
Stacy.
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From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Sat
Mar 7 05:48:24 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: Stacy Minkin <stacy(a)asia.uznet.net>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Re: Hardware guru needed
In-Reply-To: <199803060534.KAA00190(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
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About formatter..
The VAXstation 2000 can format iron beds.
You plug in 'any' mfm drive and if the enter TEST 53.
If the machine does not recognize the drive, it will prompt you for drive
parameters.
/Lars
On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Stacy Minkin wrote:
>
> >What backplane? There are 16, 18 and 22 bit address backplanes and
> >using the smaller with the larger memory generally does not work and
> >give an address error.
>
> >I prefer to use part/model number like H9273(a backplane) or
> >M8259(memory).
> How actually distinguish these backplanes?
> I can check whether extended address lines are routed to slots, if
> it sufficient - ok. If not - are there more differencies?
>
> >What you need is a copy of the dec hand books that list all those details.
> >Any of the volumes from the mid to late 80s would help.
>
> No chance to get it in xUSSR!
>
> >Standard floppy? You can use a DEC RX50 or an RX33(teacfd55gfv). If
> >using the latter *all* of the jumper must be set up correctly in the
> >drive. The RX33 is a 1.2m 5.25" drive with speed select. You cannot
> >use a PC 5.25 360k drive or a 3.5" drive(actually it's possible but,
> >very non standard and unhelpful to you at this time).
>
> Which logical drive address should be set on floppy?
>
> >Unless the jumpers or switches on the RQDX3 were messed with the defalt
> >addresses and config are usually the way they are set and fit for use.
>
> The time I got RQDX3 it's address was set wrong. I've changed it
immediately
> but there are lots of other switches...
>
> >For the RDxx you can use a ST225(rd31), st251(rd32), QUANTUM D540(rd52),
> >micropolus 1325(rd53) or MAXTOR2990(RD54) if they are formatted correctly.
> >or any other drive that matches the number of heads and cylinders of those
> >listed. Note those are all MFM type drives.
>
> Has anyone formatter?
>
>
> Allison
>
> Stacy
>
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From Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca> Mon Mar
9 05:35:55 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Message-Id: <9803081935.AA26778(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
Subject: V6 RL02 images. Binary or Source?
To: shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:35:55 -0800 (PST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.980306204439.29584A-100000(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> from
"Beastly Wolf" at Mar 6, 98 08:48:24 pm
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I've been sorting through some RL02's that came with a 11/23 system
that I bought at a UBC SERF sale a year or so ago. On these RL02's
there is at least one bootable V6 system, apparently generated
specifically to be run on a 11/23. This ought to be of some interest
to folks with real 11/23's with RL02 drives, as the other V6 systems
that I'm aware of don't have RL02 handlers.
Here's the question: this RL02 apparently has kernel sources in
the directories /sys/ken and /sys/dmr. Does the presence of these
files mean that I can only distribute images of this RL02 to those
with source licenses?
A non-legal question: the system identifies itself as "v6" when it
boots, but there is a "v7.h" header file in the /sys directory.
Is this maybe really a V7 system? Or maybe from an era when the
trnasition from V6 to V7 was being made? Datestamps on the files
are from 1982.
For those who are listed, a log produced while running in single-user
mode from a copy of the RL02 pack.
Note that although the system was generated for a 11/23, it's
running on a 11/73. The fact that it has more memory than "max" seems
to confuse the system horribly when it goes into multi-user mode. Short
of doing a lobotomy, is there any way to get around this?
Tim. (shoppa(a)triumf.ca)
b dl0
!unix
unix v6 11/23
mem = 99 KW max = 63
# CD /SYS
# LS
V7.H FILE.H LIB1 SEG.H TTY.H
BUF.H FILSYS.H LIB2 SGTTY.H USER.H
CONF INO.H PARAM.H STAT.H
CONF.H INODE.H PROC.H SYSTM.H
DMR KEN REG.H TEXT.H
# LS DMR KEN
DMR:
MAKEFILE DHFDM.O HT.O PIR.C TC.O
AD.C DN.C IC.C PIR.O TM.C
AD.O DN.O IC.O RF.C TM.O
ADOLD.C DP.C IOCTL.C RF.O TTY.C
BDREL.C DP.O IOCTL.O RK.C TTY.O
BIO.C DUP.C IR.C RK.O TTY.S
BIO.O DUP.O IR.O RL.C TTYI.C
CAT.C DZ.C KL.C RL.O TTYI.O
CAT.O DZ.O KL.O RM04.LAYOUT TTYINEW.C
CR.C FAKE.C LP.C RP.C VS.C
CR.O FAKE.O LP.O RP.O VS.O
DC.C HM.C MEM.C RX2.C VT.C
DC.O HM.O MEM.O RX2.O VT.O
DH.C HP.C OLDRL.C STAT.C XP.C
DH.O HP.O PARTAB.C STAT.O XP.O
DHDM.C HS.C PARTAB.O SYS.C XY.C
DHDM.O HS.O PC.C SYS.O XY.O
DHFDM.C HT.C PC.O TC.C
KEN:
MAKEFILE IGET.S PIPE.C SUBR.C SYSENT.C
ALLOC.C IOCTL.C PRF.C SYS1.C TEXT.C
CLOCK.C MAIN.C RDWRI.C SYS2.C TRAP.C
FIO.C MALLOC.C SIG.C SYS3.C TRAP.S
IGET.C NAMI.C SLP.C SYS4.C
# CD /USR
# LS
ADM HANNAH LEUNG OLD WHO
BATCH HARDY LIB PROGM XLIB
BIN INCLUDE LOG RAWICZ XYD
EVANS INF LPD TMP YEUNG
FORT KNOWLES MDEC UCB
GAMES KUKAN NEEDHAM WEBB
# LS GAMES
ADVENT CHESS CUBIC TTT WUMP
BJ CORE MOO TTT.K WUMPUS
# LS UCB
MAIL DRIBBLE.OUT GREP PIX SSP
APROPOS EX HEAD PRINT STRINGS
ASTAGS EX.OLD IUL PRINTENV TMP
CKDIR EXPAND LAST PTAGS TOD
CLEAR EYACC LOCK PX TRA
CLOCK FLEECE LS PX34 TSET
CR3 FMT.UCB MAKEWHATIS PXP UNTMP
CTAGS FOLD MAN PXP34 VI
CXREF FROM MKSTR PXREF W
DAYTIME FTAGS MSGS RESET WHATIS
DIFFDIR FUNNY NUM SEE WHEREIS
DOUBLE GETNAME PI SETENV WHOAMI
DRIBBLE GETS PI34 SOELIM XSTR
#
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 9 09:38:15 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803082338.KAA08954(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: FAQ of Archive of PDP-11 Unix
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:38:15 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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All,
I'm starting up a FAQ on the archive of PDP-11 Unix stuff and how to
use it. What I've got so far is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/faq1.html
but not yet linked to the other pages.
I'm happy to take other questions. I'm _very_ happy to get answers! Answers
will have attributions of course. This is a back burner thing, but I'll go
back through the mail archive and see what I can come up with.
Also note: I will add a table of contents to the top at some stage.
Warren
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From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon
Mar 9 10:18:50 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199803090018.LAA09059(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: 11/04 floppy problems
To: kolya(a)zepa.net
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:18:50 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980308190743.24989A-100000(a)orbit.zepa.net> from Nickolai
Zeldovich at "Mar 8, 98 07:13:08 pm"
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In article by Nickolai Zeldovich:
I'm having a somewhat interesting problem with my
PDP-11.. I'm trying to
boot a 11/04 from a 8" floppy drive, but DX, DX0, and DX1 all make it hang
up (RUN light goes out). Would you know what this would mean? I'm not sure
if this question is really appropriate for the list, sicne it's not
UNIX-related, and I've had little luck with newsgroups (seems my newsfeed
is quite flaky).
-- [ Nickolai Zeldovich // nickolai(a)zepa.net ]
I'm punting this to the mailing list ONLY because Nickolai's news access
is limited. Can someone help him with the problem?
Warren
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From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Mon
Mar 9 19:11:02 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
cc: kolya(a)zepa.net, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: 11/04 floppy problems
In-Reply-To: <199803090018.LAA09059(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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NIkolai!
Your problem MIGHT be because somebody shuffled the cards for you!
There are some classical caveats when it comes to the UNIBUS based system.
a) There must be an uninterrupted grant chain all the way and no holes.
b) There are two types of slots. DMA (also called a MUD or Modified
Unibus Device) and NON DMA. Default is non DMA. To enable DMA you cut a strap
on the wirewrapped backplane. (*cringe*)...
This suggests that there are also two types of GRANT cards. One resembling
a dual QBUS grant card but with green handles and one very small "playing
card type" single card with no handle that can be (with force) inserted
backwards and thus burn the bus.
c) There must be a terminator card in the last position of the chain.
I am at a customer site right now and do not have access to my library so
I can not be more specific.. If you have any documentation handy, you should
be able to use above information and find the exact information you need.
If not, you should be able to locate the faulting device by "shortening"
the bus. You start with CPU and a mem card and install the terminator
directly after. See if you can deposit and examine stuff into RAM. Then
put in the device directly after the last MEM card and test it and so forth.
Eventually the system will fail and you have located the problem.
Either remove the problem or get back to us. =)
Note: With no documentation of the devices in question you have more problems.
Some UNIBUSes are standard UNIBUSes. Others are special UNIBUSes for special
device configurations.
The UNIBUS PDP11 (or VAX) is a challange for the technically interested
person. =)
Oh yes... You can bypass devices by using the UNIBUS cable (a long stiff
white flat cable with UNIBUS connectors in each end). Each UNIBUS sub bus is
connected with the previous with a UNIBUS continuity card that consists of
a short UNIBUS cable and two dual cards joined together to form one unit.
If you want to bypass a device, take out the continuity from the start and
end of the device, install a UNIBUS cable at the last position of the
previous sub bus system and the first in the sub bus after the bypassed
device.
UNIBUS cables, continuity cards and grants (and also the terminator) all
go in the same position across the bus and in no other place.
One error here and it is BURN baby BURN! =/
/Lars
On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Warren Toomey wrote:
In article by Nickolai Zeldovich:
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X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
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I'm having a somewhat interesting problem
with my PDP-11.. I'm trying to
boot a 11/04 from a 8" floppy drive, but DX, DX0, and DX1 all make it hang
up (RUN light goes out). Would you know what this would mean? I'm not sure
if this question is really appropriate for the list, sicne it's not
UNIX-related, and I've had little luck with newsgroups (seems my newsfeed
is quite flaky).
-- [ Nickolai Zeldovich // nickolai(a)zepa.net ]
I'm punting this to the mailing list ONLY because Nickolai's news access
is limited. Can someone help him with the problem?
Warren