25 Jun
2018
25 Jun
'18
4:10 p.m.
From: Clem Cole
the MTA part is not there
That system was using the MMDF MTA:
https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SRI-NOSC/mmdf
written by David Crocker while he was at UDel (under Farber).
Noel
25 Jun
25 Jun
5:37 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Ah ... Makes sense. MMDF was possibly my favorite Unix MTA. We shipped
it as Masscomp's default Mail System for a longtime. It was only after I
left that they broken down and switched to sendmail to be like Sun and much
of the rest of the internet.
It's Interesting, MMDF had a child, PMDF (the rewrite in Pascal) which
became the the default Mailer for a lot of VMS systems, particularly ones
that had IP connections. I know of no one still running MMDF at this point
(even me), but I do know of a couple of folks running PMDF. A few years
ago, I gave up on MMDF and switched to Bornstien's QMAIL because of DNS
issues. In many ways, MMDF and QMAIL are a lot alike in the way they
work under the covers, but to give Bornstien credit he had really walked
through QMAIL doing a security audit and I was unwilling to take the time
to do that for MMDF; and I knew that any MTA on the internet had to be
hardenned. I'm sure MMDF could be attacked with stack overwrites and
strcpy(3) style attacks because when Crocker wrote it, that was not what
was being considered.
ᐧ
On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 12:10 PM, Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
From: Clem
Cole
the MTA part is not there
That system was using the MMDF MTA:
https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SRI-NOSC/mmdf
written by David Crocker while he was at UDel (under Farber).
Noel
7:35 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On 06/25/2018 11:37 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
Ah ... Makes sense. MMDF was possibly my favorite
Unix MTA.
Hum. I have no experience with MMDF. Perhaps I should play.
We shipped it as Masscomp's default Mail System
for a longtime.
I never knew that MMDF was used anywhere other than SCO Unix. (I don't
know which SCO product.)
According to Wikipedia PMDF was used on VMS. Now I wonder if there's
any relation to PMDF and what I've frequently heard referred to a Mail-11.
It was only after I left that they broken down and
switched to sendmail
to be like Sun and much of the rest of the internet.
The Wikipedia article also indicates that PMDF became Sun Java System
Messaging Server. Which seems to counter Clem's comment.
Or, perhaps as typical for Sun, there are multiple solutions to the same
""problem. Ship Sendmail with the base OS but sell a larger product
that (hypothetically) does a super set of functions.
any MTA on the internet had to be hardenned. I'm
sure MMDF could be
attacked with stack overwrites and strcpy(3) style attacks because when
Crocker wrote it, that was not what was being considered.
Thankfully you don't have to put an MTA directly on the internet to be
able to play with it. It's trivial to put an MTA behind a smart host
that that shields the (potentially) vulnerable MTA from the brunt of the
Internet.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:09 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Below...
On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
wrote:
On 06/25/2018 11:37 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
Warning.... there a lot of stuff that is pre-internet in the guts (i.e.
was designed during the Arpanet) so IP support got added to it. And even
with the last versions, its missing a lot (i.e. I'm the person that
hacked^h^h^h^h^h^hadded the original BSD resolv client code to it one
weekend, lord knows how many years ago). Again this is why QMAIL became
the replacement. Borstien is an amazing coder and I respect him immensely,
although his personality leaves a little to be desired...
Ah ... Makes sense. MMDF was possibly my
favorite Unix MTA.
Hum. I have no experience with MMDF. Perhaps I should play.
We shipped it as Masscomp's default Mail System for a longtime.
I never knew that MMDF was used anywhere other than SCO Unix. (I don't
know which SCO product.)
Ahem ... We did it before they did (by a number of year actually). It
was also the mail for CS-NET/PhoneNET, when BBN picked it up.
According to Wikipedia PMDF was used on VMS. Now I
wonder if there's any
relation to PMDF and what I've frequently heard referred to a Mail-11.
Mail-11 is DEC's mail standard. And is mostly a protocol spec.
PMDF was a pseudo open source rewrite of MMDF (from on the mid western
universities I believe), that got taken closed and I never knew all of the
politics. Larry M correct me here, he might know some of it, as I'm
thinking PMDF came out of Wisconsin originally. Whoever wrote it, took the
CS-Net C MMDF implementation and rewrote it into Pascal for VMS - this was
during the height the C vs Pascal war in CS Depts and also the time of the
UNIX vs VMS wars. The DEC Pascal Compiler was very good and was an
excellent teaching compiler. Paul W might remember the ordering of the
releases from the compiler group, but I think VMS Pascal was released
before VAX-11C -- which I think played into the MMDF/PMDF thing. As I
recall, VMS Pascal definitely was bundled in the University package and was
'cheaper' if you were willing to run VMS instead of Unix at your
University. Anyway, the folks that did PMDF formed a small firm and
sold it for a while. There was a commercial IP implementation from France
call TUV for VMS and IIRC, the TUV folks bought PMDF and whole thing got
sold to a lot people and had quite a ride .
It was only after I left that they broken down and switched to sendmail to
I know nothing about that. I wonder of the Pascal version got
reimplemented in Java at some point. I do not know. That would not
surprise me.
be like Sun and much of the rest of the
internet.
The Wikipedia article also indicates that PMDF became Sun Java System
Messaging Server. Which seems to counter Clem's comment.
Or, perhaps as typical for Sun, there are multiple solutions to the same
""problem. Ship Sendmail with the base OS but sell a larger product that
(hypothetically) does a super set of functions.
That would sound more like it. Also left and right hands not talking to
each other. Sun had become a large place by that point.
any MTA on the internet had to be hardenned. I'm sure MMDF could be
Sure, but its more work than I want to mess with these days. Best wishes
and have at it 😘
ᐧ
attacked with stack overwrites and strcpy(3)
style attacks because when
Crocker wrote it, that was not what was being considered.
Thankfully you don't have to put an MTA directly on the internet to be
able to play with it. It's trivial to put an MTA behind a smart host that
that shields the (potentially) vulnerable MTA from the brunt of the
Internet. 
8:15 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
The Wikipedia article also indicates that PMDF became
Sun Java System
Messaging Server. Which seems to counter Clem's comment.
Commercial PMDF was sold/maintained by Innosoft (Ned Freed, Chris Newman,
...) Innosoft was bought up by Sun prior to its assimilation by the
Oracle borg ...
8:47 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On 06/25/2018 02:09 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
Below...
;-)
Warning.... there a lot of stuff that is pre-internet
in the guts (i.e.
was designed during the Arpanet) so IP support got added to it. And
even with the last versions, its missing a lot (i.e. I'm the person that
hacked^h^h^h^h^h^hadded the original BSD resolv client code to it one
weekend, lord knows how many years ago). Again this is why QMAIL
became the replacement. Borstien is an amazing coder and I respect him
immensely, although his personality leaves a little to be desired...
I consider myself so advised.
Wait, are you saying that qmail was written as a replacement for PMDF?
Or that you used qmail as your replacement for PMDF?
Ahem ... We did it before they did (by a number of
year actually).
It was also the mail for CS-NET/PhoneNET, when BBN picked it up.
I'm sorry, I was not meaning to imply anything other than my ignorance
of MMDF history.
Mail-11 is DEC's mail standard. And is mostly a
protocol spec.
ACK
PMDF was a pseudo open source rewrite of MMDF (from on
the mid western
universities I believe), that got taken closed and I never knew all of
the politics. Larry M correct me here, he might know some of it, as I'm
thinking PMDF came out of Wisconsin originally. Whoever wrote it, took
the CS-Net C MMDF implementation and rewrote it into Pascal for VMS -
this was during the height the C vs Pascal war in CS Depts and also the
time of the UNIX vs VMS wars. The DEC Pascal Compiler was very good
and was an excellent teaching compiler. Paul W might remember the
ordering of the releases from the compiler group, but I think VMS Pascal
was released before VAX-11C -- which I think played into the MMDF/PMDF
thing. As I recall, VMS Pascal definitely was bundled in the
University package and was 'cheaper' if you were willing to run VMS
instead of Unix at your University. Anyway, the folks that did
PMDF formed a small firm and sold it for a while. There was a
commercial IP implementation from France call TUV for VMS and IIRC, the
TUV folks bought PMDF and whole thing got sold to a lot people and had
quite a ride .
Interesting.
I know nothing about that. I wonder of the Pascal
version got
reimplemented in Java at some point. I do not know. That would not
surprise me.
"In 1999 PMDF was translated from Pascal to C. The C version of PMDF
became the basis of the Sun Java System Messaging Server of Sun
Microsystems"
I wouldn't bet that (the C version of) PMDF was reimplemented in Java
just because the name contained Java. I seem to recall Sun putting Java
in the name of many products at the time.
That would sound more like it. Also left and right
hands not talking
to each other. Sun had become a large place by that point.
ACK
Sure, but its more work than I want to mess with
these days. Best
wishes and have at it 😘
Fair enough.
Thank you for the history on MMDF / PMDF. #larningIsFun
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
9:15 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 4:47 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
wrote:
Wait, are you saying that qmail was written as a replacement for PMDF? Or
that you used qmail as your replacement for PMDF?
Unclear - why Borstein does anything in my mind. Best I can tell he wrote
because he (and a lot of us) disliked sendmail. I think he felt MMDF was
too much of a mess by that point and it was time to start over. He had
already did a replacement for bind. But it would have primarily been a
replacement for MMDF I would have thought --- PMDF originally was written
in Pascal for VMS, although PMDF might have been moved back to UNIX by
then. The dates are fuzzy.
"In 1999 PMDF was translated from Pascal to C.
The C version of PMDF
became the basis of the Sun Java System Messaging Server of Sun
Microsystems"
My memory is hazy, I seem to remember there was one more heavy weight mail
system after MMDF for UNIX that came from the Brits in the 1980s/early 90s
in the same vein who's name I can not think of. That must have been PMDF
now that I think about it. Simon Rosenthal was one of guys involved in
it. He did the support for what it was for us at LCC. Thinking about it,
we must have been running that version at Locus before I went to DEC. If I
can find Simon or the other Andy Tannenbaum (trb), I'll ask them if either
of them remembers. But I can say the date has to be wrong on this quote
you mention. I would think the translation from Pascal back to C would
have been 10 year earlier and that would make more sense. By 1999, I had
left LCC. As I said, Simon would be a good person to ask if I can dig
him up.
I wouldn't bet that (the C version of) PMDF was
reimplemented in Java just
because the name contained Java. I seem to recall Sun putting Java in the
name of many products at the time.
Right....
Clem
ᐧ
26 Jun
26 Jun
7:01 a.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
It sounds more like:
Early 1980s: C MMDF translated to VMS Pascal.
1999: PMDF translated anew to C by Sun.
I briefly remember having MMDF at Georgia Tech, I think in the 4.1 BSD
time frame; it was used for CSNet and UUCP for USENET / UUCB mail. Then
when 4.2 came along, I think it was dropped for Sendmail.
But I *really* don't remember the details, just that MMDF was in use
on one of the systems I used a long time ago.
Thanks,
Arnold
"In 1999
PMDF was translated from Pascal to C. The C version of PMDF
became the basis of the Sun Java System Messaging Server of Sun
Microsystems"
But I can say the date has to be wrong on this quote
you mention. I would think the translation from Pascal back to C would
have been 10 year earlier and that would make more sense. By 1999, I had
left LCC. As I said, Simon would be a good person to ask if I can dig
him up. 
8:27 a.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca> wrote:
They are still active though I can't remember what their software is
called these days. It has grown a lot of features, e.g. IMAP message
store.
According to the MMDF FAQ, MMDF was also the basis for PP, but my PP
manual says MMDF was just the inspiration, and it suggests that Kille and
his team rewrote it from scratch. PP was the UK Grey Book / X.400 mailer,
and (according to its manual) its name definitely did not stand for
Postman Pat. PP is still around as the (commercial) ISODE mail server.
When I worked at Demon Internet in 1997-2000, they were using MMDF for
their mail servers - I gather this came from their origins as a SCO
consultancy.
At Cambridge, our central email relay was named the "PP Switch" in about
1991 (IIRC) and it is still to this day called ppsw.cam.ac.uk.
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch <dot(a)dotat.at> http://dotat.at/
Lundy, Fastnet, Irish Sea: Variable 3 or 4, occasionally east 5 in Lundy and
Fastnet. Smooth or slight, occasionally moderate in southwest Fastnet. Fair.
Good.
The Wikipedia
article also indicates that PMDF became Sun Java System
Messaging Server. Which seems to counter Clem's comment.
Commercial PMDF was sold/maintained by Innosoft (Ned Freed, Chris Newman, ...)
Innosoft was bought up by Sun prior to its assimilation by the Oracle borg ... 
8:57 a.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 05:15:00PM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
Bernstein.
Wait, are you
saying that qmail was written as a replacement for PMDF? Or
that you used qmail as your replacement for PMDF?
Unclear - why Borstein does anything in my mind. Best I can tell he wrote
because he (and a lot of us) disliked sendmail. I think he felt MMDF was
too much of a mess by that point and it was time to start over. He had
already did a replacement for bind. But it would have primarily been a
As I recall qmail came before djbdns. I started using qmail in the 90s in
its pre 1.0 version because I wanted a SMTP MTA didn't want to use sendmail,
and had wasted too much time trying to get my head around MMDF.
qmail had the advantage of being small, simple, with easily understood
distinct parts, and one could easily extend it - sort of in the tools
approach, by plugging bits in to its dataflow pipeline.
The code was a bit 'interesting', but not too awkward.
DF
11:29 a.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On 25 Jun 2018, at 21:47, Grant Taylor via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
I wouldn't bet that (the C version of) PMDF was reimplemented in Java just because
the name contained Java. I seem to recall Sun putting Java in the name of many products
at the time.
This is true: Java was (they thought) so important that they labelled everything with it.
They changed the stock symbol from SUNW to JAVA at some point, even. That has to be a
really good example of fiddling while Rome burns.
1:09 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Anyway, the folks that did PMDF formed a small firm
and sold it for a
while. There was a commercial IP implementation from France call TUV
for VMS and IIRC, the TUV folks bought PMDF and whole thing got sold to
a lot people and had quite a ride .
Still has, it seems! http://www.process.com/products/pmdf/
Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch <dot(a)dotat.at> http://dotat.at/
East Forties: Northerly 4 or 5. Slight, occasionally moderate until later.
Fair. Good, occasionally poor.
3:57 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On 25 Jun 2018 16:09 -0400, from clemc(a)ccc.com (Clem Cole):
Borstien
Actually, I'm pretty sure his name is Bernstein.
Debian's package repository seems to agree, calling the original
author of qmail Daniel Bernstein.
--
Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael(a)kjorling.se
“The most dangerous thought that you can have as a creative person
is to think you know what you’re doing.” (Bret Victor)
6:04 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 7:09 AM, Tony Finch <dot(a)dotat.at> wrote:
Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
It was TGV that produced multinet. It was not from France, but named for
the fast train in France. They were located in Santa Cruz. They were the
main competitor to TWG, The Wollongong Group in the VMS TCP/IP space.
Warner
Anyway, the folks that did PMDF formed a small
firm and sold it for a
while. There was a commercial IP implementation from France call TUV
for VMS and IIRC, the TUV folks bought PMDF and whole thing got sold to
a lot people and had quite a ride .
Still has, it seems! http://www.process.com/products/pmdf/ 
9:09 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Michael Kjörling wrote in <20180626155758.GC29822(a)h-174-65.A328.priv.ba\
hnhof.se>:
|On 25 Jun 2018 16:09 -0400, from clemc(a)ccc.com (Clem Cole):
|> Borstien
|
|Actually, I'm pretty sure his name is Bernstein.
Absolutely that is his name. I did not dare to ask and suspected
some internal joke or story, given that he was called Bor as in
Bored, and Stein is Stone, and Bernstein is actually the German
word for amber.
|Debian's package repository seems to agree, calling the original
|author of qmail Daniel Bernstein.
--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)
9:16 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
Ok, that all sounds right and I'll take your word for it. I followed it
only from the side and not directly as a customer, since by then I was
really not doing much VMS anything. That said, I had thought some of the
original folks that were part of the PMDF work were the same crew that did
SOL (Michel Gien - the Pascal rewrite of UNIX - whom I knew in those days
from the OS side of the world). I also thought the reason why the the firm
was named after the TGV (and yes I stand corrected on the name) was because
they were French and at the time the French bullet train was know for being
one of the fastest in the world and the French were very proud of it.
ᐧ
11:45 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Nathaniel Borenstein did much work defining MIME. Maybe thats your moment
of confusion?
On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 7:18 AM, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 5:09 PM, Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu>
wrote:
|Actually, I'm pretty sure his name is Bernstein.
It is. Many pardons....
ᐧ
27 Jun
27 Jun
9:33 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On Tue, 26 Jun 2018, Clem Cole wrote:
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:16:36 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com>
To: Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>rg>,
Grant Taylor <gtaylor(a)tnetconsulting.net>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] off-topic list
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
Ok, that all sounds right and I'll take your word for it. I
followed it only from the side and not directly as a customer, since
by then I was really not doing much VMS anything. That said, I had
thought some of the original folks that were part of the PMDF work
were the same crew that did SOL (Michel Gien - the Pascal rewrite of
UNIX - whom I knew in those days from the OS side of the world). I
also thought the reason why the the firm was named after the TGV (and
yes I stand corrected on the name) was because they were French and at
the time the French bullet train was know for being one of the fastest
in the world and the French were very proud of it.
I always thought TGV was "Three Guys and a VAX".
--
Michael Parson
Pflugerville, TX
KF5LGQ
10:27 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
Makes sense.
Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.
On Jun 27, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Michael Parson
<mparson(a)bl.org> wrote:
On Tue, 26 Jun 2018, Clem Cole wrote:
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:16:36 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com>
To: Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>rg>,
Grant Taylor <gtaylor(a)tnetconsulting.net>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] off-topic list
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
Ok, that all sounds right and I'll take your word for it. I
followed it only from the side and not directly as a customer, since
by then I was really not doing much VMS anything. That said, I had
thought some of the original folks that were part of the PMDF work
were the same crew that did SOL (Michel Gien - the Pascal rewrite of
UNIX - whom I knew in those days from the OS side of the world). I
also thought the reason why the the firm was named after the TGV (and
yes I stand corrected on the name) was because they were French and at
the time the French bullet train was know for being one of the fastest
in the world and the French were very proud of it.
I always thought TGV was "Three Guys and a VAX".
--
Michael Parson
Pflugerville, TX
KF5LGQ
28 Jun
28 Jun
5:57 a.m.
New subject: off-topic list
I'd heard "Two Guys and a Vax"...
Clem cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Makes sense.
Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.
> On Jun 27, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Michael Parson <mparson(a)bl.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018, Clem Cole wrote:
>>
>> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:16:36 -0400
>> From: Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com>
>> To: Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com>
>> Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>rg>,
>> Grant Taylor <gtaylor(a)tnetconsulting.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] off-topic list
>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
>> Ok, that all sounds right and I'll take your word for it. I
>> followed it only from the side and not directly as a customer, since
>> by then I was really not doing much VMS anything. That said, I had
>> thought some of the original folks that were part of the PMDF work
>> were the same crew that did SOL (Michel Gien - the Pascal rewrite of
>> UNIX - whom I knew in those days from the OS side of the world). I
>> also thought the reason why the the firm was named after the TGV (and
>> yes I stand corrected on the name) was because they were French and at
>> the time the French bullet train was know for being one of the fastest
>> in the world and the French were very proud of it.
>
> I always thought TGV was "Three Guys and a VAX".
>
> --
> Michael Parson
> Pflugerville, TX
> KF5LGQ
6:36 p.m.
New subject: off-topic list
On Wed, 27 Jun 2018, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 23:57:14 -0600
From: arnold(a)skeeve.com
To: mparson(a)bl.org, clemc(a)ccc.com
Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] off-topic list
Clem cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Digging through google search results, I've found stuff suggesting that
it started as Two Guys and at some point they added a Third Guy. My
VAX/VMS knowlege is long rotted, haven't touched it since the early 90s,
but ISTR having TGV Multinet on the VMS system I used, and "Three Guys
and a VAX" was the expn I remember reading at the time.
--
Michael Parson
Pflugerville, TX
KF5LGQ
Makes sense.
Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.
> On Jun 27, 2018, at 5:33 PM, Michael Parson <mparson(a)bl.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018, Clem Cole wrote:
>>
>> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:16:36 -0400
>> From: Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com>
>> To: Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com>
>> Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>rg>,
>> Grant Taylor <gtaylor(a)tnetconsulting.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] off-topic list
>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
>> Ok, that all sounds right and I'll take your word for it. I
>> followed it only from the side and not directly as a customer, since
>> by then I was really not doing much VMS anything. That said, I had
>> thought some of the original folks that were part of the PMDF work
>> were the same crew that did SOL (Michel Gien - the Pascal rewrite of
>> UNIX - whom I knew in those days from the OS side of the world). I
>> also thought the reason why the the firm was named after the TGV (and
>> yes I stand corrected on the name) was because they were French and at
>> the time the French bullet train was know for being one of the fastest
>> in the world and the French were very proud of it.
>
> I always thought TGV was "Three Guys and a VAX".
I'd heard "Two Guys and a Vax"...
2132
days inactive
2135
days old
21 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
arnold＠skeeve.com -
Clem Cole -
Clem cole
-
Derek Fawcus -
George Michaelson -
Grant Taylor -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
Lyndon Nerenberg -
Michael Kjörling -
Michael Parson -
Steffen Nurpmeso -
Tim Bradshaw -
Tony Finch -
Warner Losh