- TUHS - www.tuhs.org

medialab.dyndns.org blocked and no more exist, use medialab.freaknet.org instead!

by asbesto

medialab.dyndns.org blocked - medialab.freaknet.org is the solution! dyndns.org blocked our domain "medialab.dyndns.org" for a not well specified "account violation" problem. we're trying to solve that, but the real problems is the large amount of google indexes pointing to medialab.dyndns.org this free domain was born when we was not able to register a "real" domain. now we have freaknet.org and medialab.freaknet.org, but there's nothing to do for all the old links resting into the net :) this address is used from many users around the world, to telnet, ssh, rlogin and surf our free computer network! so, here i announce that medialab.dyndns.org now is not working anymore, and people can use medialab.freaknet.org instead. Hope this message will be soon indexed by google :))) sorry for this - more details and all the story background can be read at our main site, http://www.freaknet.org in the news section. tnx all and god bless all PDP/11 in the world. -- [asbesto : freaknet medialab : radio#cybernet : GPG key on keyservers] [ MAIL ATTACH, SPAM, HTML, WORD, and msgs larger than 95K > /dev/null ] [http://www.freaknet.org/asbesto IW9HGS http://kyuzz.org/radiocybernet]

21 years, 4 months

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MicroSoft Money Central Web Site on SCOX

by Kenneth Stailey

This one was too good to not pass around. http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/srs/srsmain.asp?Symbol=SCOX The sites says (and I quote) << The SCO Group, Inc., a small-cap growth company in the technology sector, is expected to significantly underperform the market over the next six months with very high risk. >> __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

21 years, 4 months

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Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) wrote: > You mean you've restored the original version of cat that had only one option, > [...] Notice my use of the words "nearly" and "almost" in the part you responded to. Seriously though, you gotta agree that until 4.3BSD inclusive, Berkeley was basically adding to and extending V7. Sure they added a *lot* and extended many of the existing facilities, but with very few exceptions, it was all additive, virtually no V7 facility (except the mpx you mentioned) was removed. Yes, they added fsck, but icheck is still there! (No one uses it of course, but knowing that nobody removed it gives a warm fuzzy feeling.) The same goes for almost everything else. Here is the acid test: time-teleport a V7 user from 1979 to a VAX running 4.3BSD, set PATH=/bin:/usr/bin (no /usr/ucb), do stty old (old tty driver) and stty ek (erase # kill @) and see if he feels at home or not. Of course I never use my systems in this way, I make extensive use of Berkeley UNIX facilities, but I like it much better to use a system that is additive rather than substitutive with respect to Original UNIX. MS

21 years, 4 months

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Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Michael Sokolov: It feels so great knowing that my current modern OS (last release 2003-12-07 counts as current and modern to me) still has nearly all original V7 UNIX code almost completely untouched. It's what gives me the right to call it UNIX. ======= You mean you've restored the original version of cat that had only one option, and the version of ls that had fewer than a dozen and didn't care how wide the screen was; that filenames are only 14 characters long; that fsck has been abolished in favour of icheck and ncheck and dcheck; and that file system blocks have returned to their original V7 size of 512 bytes? My hat's off to you if so. On the other hand, I have to question either your stability or that of your system if you have reinstated the original V7 code implementing mpx(2). Norman Wilson Toronto ON (who actually used the old multiplexor once, but had to fix it first!)

21 years, 4 months

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Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Warren, I see that there is a 4.4BSD-Alpha subdir in the TUHS archive. Do you > want a final CSRG 4.4BSD tape to add there too? I would definitely want an image of the 4.4BSD tape too! But I do mean *tape*, not what's on Kirk's CD-ROM. I'm talking about a record-for-record image of the Official Release Master tape. > Thanks, I have to go through your archive for it now. Actually I just took a closer look and it has been in the distributed /usr/lib/learn since 4.3BSD, it was just never added to /usr/src/usr.lib/learn for some reason (not even in Quasijarus, I probably didn't notice it). So you don't have to go through the pain of downloading a dist from Harhan to pull it out of there, you can just take it from your CD-ROM set. > It's so difficult being you. :-) > I was able to save myself the time by > using the 4.4BSD version of learn(1) since it has already been > modified for CRT terminals. You will have to re-invent the wheel > because of your politics. Well I'll take a look at what they did to learn in 4.4BSD and see if any of it is acceptable for Quasijarus. Hopefully I won't have to reinvent the wheel. I believe in adding new features without breaking or disturbing historical stuff. It feels so great knowing that my current modern OS (last release 2003-12-07 counts as current and modern to me) still has nearly all original V7 UNIX code almost completely untouched. It's what gives me the right to call it UNIX. As far as learn goes I think I would need to add new lessons for UNIX on a CRT or some options or somesuch, but I do NOT want to remove the facility for teaching UNIX on a hardcopy tty. That's such a gem, it should be kept! MS

21 years, 4 months

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Re: [TUHS] is learn(1) free now?

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > When I purchased my copy of _The > CSRG Archives_ CDROM set I was told in E-mail by McKusick that I did not need > to sign any license agreements. I am assuming that this is due to Caldera > proclaiming that V32 sources and binaries could be redistributed by the public > legally. Yes, this is correct, this is the same reason why Warren was able to remove the password system from his UNIX Archive and make it completely open. > In the CDROM set is a fully encumbered 4.4BSD source tree which > includes the learn(1) source code. Yup, I have it too (the whole CD-ROM set). learn(1) is far older than 4.4BSD though, and goes way back. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus has it too. > I also have yet to > get the vi lesson data which the source code that I do have says came on a > separate user-contributed tape. I just looked and 4.3BSD-Quasijarus has the vi lesson data as part of the standard system. > I got here because I have newbies in my life now and I need UNIX online > courseware. Hear hear. I sometimes get into this situation too, usually when dating and getting faced with the need to teach a prospective female how to use a real operating system, since the one woman who finally makes it would absolutely have to use 4.3BSD-Quasijarus on my VAXen. I looked into learn, but one thing it disappointed me with is that it's woefully outdated. It starts by setting the tty erase and kill chars to '#' and '@' respectively and teaching you how to edit the command line on a hardcopy tty. Well, OK, some would see this as good educational value, but the problem is, if you don't actually *have* a hardcopy tty, and most of us don't, it doesn't work too well. It prints out lessons longer than 24 lines and they scroll off the top of the VT terminal. It was definitely written with the assumption that one has a hardcopy tty with a long roll of continuous paper, and it expects the student to grab the paper coming out of the teletype and look at what's been printed, but it just doesn't work on a VT terminal. Not to mention that in the end the lessons give the student little practical learning that would actually be useful when using UNIX on a CRT terminal. (For example, it would be very practical to explain to the student the difference between ^H and ^? and teach him/her how to deal with it.) > I'm wondering about distributing the results of my porting effort once it > matures enough to be worth doing so. Well, as a I said 4.3BSD-Quasijarus contains learn and all other "encumbered code" and it is freely available via anonymous FTP from ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG, so... BTW for those who missed it I released 4.3-QJ0b on 2003-12-07. MS

21 years, 4 months

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web site detailing Apple's mc68k UNIX, A/UX

by Al Kossow

> I would be interested to know if there is any chance of getting a hobbyist > A/UX license out of Apple. A/UX started out as a port of Unisoft SysV. Prior to version 2.0, there was no Finder interface at all. A real history of the product should be done at some point, as opposed to the half-baked opinions of someone who has only seen a very late version of the product. Since there were per-copy licensing fees to Unisoft, at least for the early versions, it seems unlikely that a hobbyist license for A/UX would be possible.

21 years, 4 months

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[TUHS] m68k SVR2 on Perq (was: web site detailing Apple's mc68k UNIX, A/UX)

by Roger Willcocks

Incidentally, the Unisoft m68k port of SVR2 at the core of A/UX was also ported to the Perq-5 in 1986/1987, to create the Crosfield Studio 9500. Perq had just folded, but a core group of ex-Perq employees worked with a team from the UK company Crosfield Electronics to take the machine (which at that time existed only as a wire-wrap prototype) through to production. I was a member of that team and I have fond memories of sitting in a basement office in Pittsburgh surrounded by kernel listings (with a very puzzled look on my face). Just a small footnote in Unix history... -- Roger

21 years, 4 months

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web site detailing Apple's mc68k UNIX, A/UX

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.applefritter.com/ui/aux/ Site discusses what it was like to use A/UX, why Apple discontinued it, etc. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 4 months

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is learn(1) free now?

by Kenneth Stailey

Hi, When 4.4BSD-lite was released one of the 4.4BSD encumbered things that was cut was the online courseware program, learn(1). When I purchased my copy of _The CSRG Archives_ CDROM set I was told in E-mail by McKusick that I did not need to sign any license agreements. I am assuming that this is due to Caldera proclaiming that V32 sources and binaries could be redistributed by the public legally. In the CDROM set is a fully encumbered 4.4BSD source tree which includes the learn(1) source code. I spent a few hours last night porting it to NetBSD and FreeBSD and tightening up a few bits like gets() vs. fgets(). I haven't finished and have yet to distributed the results. I also have yet to get the vi lesson data which the source code that I do have says came on a separate user-contributed tape. I got here because I have newbies in my life now and I need UNIX online courseware. The only thing I could find in the FreeBSD ports tree was something called vilearn. I'm wondering about distributing the results of my porting effort once it matures enough to be worth doing so. Thanks, Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 4 months

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earily Supnik paper on SIM the precursor to SIMH

by Kenneth Stailey

http://research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/DTJN02/DTJN02HM.HTM This web page also discusses restoring actual DEC hardware. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 4 months

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Copyright notices in Edition 5, removed in Edition 6

by Larry J. Blunk

Apologies if this has been answered before, but I noticed that there are AT&T copyright notices in the kernel sources for Unix Edition 5, but they were removed in Edition 6. You can still see the comment blocks for the notices in Edition 6, but the notices themselves have been removed. Does anyone have the history on this? I noticed that USL registered Editions 5, 6, 7 and 32V in 1992. I would assume that Editions 4 and earlier are free and clear because, prior to 1978, registration was a requirement for protection. Further, since USL waited longer than 5 years to register the copyrights for 5, 6, 7 and 32V, these may be free and clear as well. As I understand it, Editions 7 and 32V could have had copyright protection without registration since they were released after 1978. However, because they lacked copyright notices when released, they may very well be considered public domain. It was not until 1989 that the requirement for including copyright notices was dropped.

21 years, 5 months

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Copyright notices in Edition 5, removed in Edition 6

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Larry J. Blunk: Apologies if this has been answered before, but I noticed that there are AT&T copyright notices in the kernel sources for Unix Edition 5, but they were removed in Edition 6. [...] I noticed that USL registered Editions 5, 6, 7 and 32V in 1992. I would assume that Editions 4 and earlier are free and clear [...] As I understand it, Editions 7 and 32V could have had copyright protection without registration since they were released after 1978. However, because they lacked copyright notices when released, they may very well be considered public domain. It was not until 1989 that the requirement for including copyright notices was dropped. ======== Notwithstanding other comments about the history, for practical purposes none of this matters for Seventh Edition and 32V and anything earlier, because Caldera (as it then was) open-licensed them in January 2002; see http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf. To be precise, that license covers 32-bit 32V UNIX 16 bit UNIX Versions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 with specific exclusion of System III and System V and successors. That is why source code for the Seventh Edition system (for example) is openly accessibly on the TUHS web server. Among those whose dog work produced first a hobbyist-specific per-person license, then the current BSD-like license, was Warren Toomey, who manages that web server and this mailing list. I don't think it will give him a swollen head (or a wooden leg) to thank him now and then, and I do so here. Long-time readers know all that, but those who have joined us recently might not. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 5 months

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RE: Fw: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT

by zmkm zmkm

mamun tks for the prompt reply but we need the rate to malaysia not to jeddah and the rate must be break bulk because cntr will be very expensive. since each shipment is about 15 000 tons (fifteen thousand tons) it means we'll need about 700 cntrs !!! , and the contract will be about 150.000 tons divided into 10 shipments of 15 000 each . break bulk will be much cheaper , pls try to find some one else very urgently try shipco people maybe they can do it. pls mamun this is very important and top urgent , also I need reply overnight as client is losing patience. tks & rgs zouhair >From: mamun <mam_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa> >To: new_zmkm(a)hotmail.com >Subject: Fw: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT >Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:55:09 +0300 > >Zouz > >Here is the reply fm brazil , as they can not offer service by Breakbulk. >pls comments. >Rgds/Mamun > >-----Original Message----- >From: Alexandre Jacomo <alexandre(a)unicarrier.com.br> >To: asad_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa <asad_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa> >Date: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:01 PM >Subject: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT > > >Dear Mr Asad Moudayfer > >Thank you for your below rate request. Pls be advised our best rate: > >From Rio de Janeiro Port to Jeddah Port >Cntr 20' std: US$ 2100 + $200 Baf >Cntr 40' std: US$ 3100 + $400 Baf >TT 45 days via Singapore >Charges in Rio de Janeiro Port >US$ 25 BL >US$ 50 per cntr 20' or 40' Capatazias - Brazilian THC > >Break Bulk from Rio de Janeiro Port to Port Klang/Malaysia >Unfortunately we can't offer this service, because we can't use our BL to >Break Bulk cargo. > >Rgds, > >Alexandre Jácomo > Commercial Dept. > UnicarrieR Ltd. - The Friendshipper > Tel.: 5511 3253 5334 Fax: 5511 3253 5277 > Email: alexandre(a)unicarrier.com.br > Web: www.unicarrier.com.br > Neutralidade - Segurança - Ética >----- Original Message ----- >From: Asad >To: Alexandre >Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:10 PM >Subject: Fw: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT > > > >Dear Alexandre > >Ref to our mail below earlier few minutes. > >Please note, we want rates by Break-bulk from fob RIO JANERIO upto PORT >KLANG/MALAYSIA >COMMODITY : RAW SUGAR IN BAGS TOTAL 150 THOUSAND TON / 15 THOUSAND TONS IN >EACH LOT. > >Please name the carrier & T/Time along with your best obtainable Bulk >rates at your earliest. > >Best Regards > >Mamun >Moudayfer & Bros co. >Riyadh - Ksa > >-----Original Message----- >From: Asad <asad_moudayfer(a)awalnet.net.sa> >To: Alexandre <alexandre(a)unicarrier.com.br> >Date: Monday, December 22, 2003 6:46 PM >Subject: RATE RQST FROM RIO JANERIO TO JEDDAH PORT > > >Dear Mr. Alexandre >Good Day > >Please provide us your best possible FOB ocean freight rate for 1X40fit & >1X20fit cntr from RIO JANERIO to Jeddah port. The commodity is sugar. > >We will appriceate about your soonest reply. > >Thanks & Best Regards > >Asad >Moudayfer & Bros Co >Riyadh >K.s.a. _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx

21 years, 5 months

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Re: [TUHS] question about mkfs(8) and stdio

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Did stdio buffering change over time? Line buffering was a Berkeley innovation. stdout became line-buffered by default (when it is a terminal) in 4.0BSD. 4.2BSD added setlinebuf(3) to allow people to make stdout or stderr line-buffered when they want to. 4.3BSD extended it to work on any stream, not just stdout or stderr. > If you look at an old BSD mkfs for cylinder-group style file systems (not 7th > Ed filesystems) Ahmm, you call that old? To me it's new... It's a (wonderful) 4.2BSD innovation. > but I have memories that the superblocks were printed out one at a time as if > fflush(stdout) was called between them rather than one line at a time with > line-buffered stdio. I use 4.3BSD-* systems every day and have been for the past several years, and you can take my word for it that on all 4.3BSD-* systems, including Quasijarus, plain 4.3, and Ultrix the alternate superblock list output from mkfs/newfs appears one line at a time on the tty. > At some point I thought "SysV must have broke this" I'm curious, where does SysV fit into this? It's the wonderful 4.2BSD filesystem a BSD-only thing that Missed'em-five people treated as a satanic manifestation? > since newfs would print out > a complete row of superblock numbers at once with a big delay between the rows That's exactly what it does. BTW mkfs = newfs. mkfs was/is the original UNIX filesystem creator. It was almost completely rewritten in 4.2BSD to create the new filesystems. At the same time the newfs program was written as a user- friendly front-end to mkfs (it merely exec'ed mkfs with a bunch of options). The situation remained in 4.3. In 4.3-Tahoe/Quasijarus mkfs.c and newfs.c are compiled and linked into one binary called newfs, CSRG was forced to do this in order to support disk labels. MS

21 years, 5 months

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Re: [TUHS] question about mkfs(8) and stdio

by John Holden

> you will see the super block backup loop does not fflush(stdio) between > printf()s Was there a 'setbuf(stdout, NULL)' at the beginning? This would force immediate output from any printf's (less efficient than a fflush)

21 years, 5 months

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question about mkfs(8) and stdio

by Kenneth Stailey

Did stdio buffering change over time? If you look at an old BSD mkfs for cylinder-group style file systems (not 7th Ed filesystems) you will see the super block backup loop does not fflush(stdio) between printf()s printf("super-block backups (for fsck -b#) at:"); for (cylno = 0; cylno < sblock.fs_ncg; cylno++) { initcg(cylno); if (cylno % 10 == 0) printf("\n"); printf(" %d,", fsbtodb(&sblock, cgsblock(&sblock, cylno))); } but I have memories that the superblocks were printed out one at a time as if fflush(stdout) was called between them rather than one line at a time with line-buffered stdio. At some point I thought "SysV must have broke this" since newfs would print out a complete row of superblock numbers at once with a big delay between the rows rather than each superblock number with a short delay between each number. But when I go searching the oldest BSD code has no fflush(stdout) the way modern FreeBSD does: for (cylno = 0; cylno < sblock.fs_ncg; cylno++) { initcg(cylno, utime); if (mfs) continue; j = snprintf(tmpbuf, sizeof(tmpbuf), " %ld%s", fsbtodb(&sblock, cgsblock(&sblock, cylno)), cylno < (sblock.fs_ncg-1) ? "," : "" ); if (i + j >= width) { printf("\n"); i = 0; } i += j; printf("%s", tmpbuf); fflush(stdout); } Did stdio buffering change over time so that line buffering became the default? Thanks, Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 5 months

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RE: [pups] pdp11/73 memory

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hi all, > No. The uVAX memory requires special PMI stuff (carried over those > ribbon cables) that the PDP-11 CPUs don't grok. At least, that's > what I've always been told. Correct. --f

21 years, 5 months

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[pups] pdp11/73 memory

by Christos Papachristou

I recently found a cabinet with a MicroVAX II (in 2 BA23 enclosures) and quite a lot storage devices on it. I plan to replace the MicroVAX II CPU module (M7606-AA) with a pdp11/73 CPU module (M8192) . I only have a 512k RAM module (M8067LA) for the pdp11/73 . The microVAX has two quad height memory modules , but I haven't checked yet whether they are 1, 2 ,4 or 8 megs each (ie M7607,M7608 or M7609) .Is it possible to keep some of the MicroVAX memory modules if they are below or equal to 4 megs?

21 years, 5 months

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Re: [pups] pdp11/73 memory

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap(a)ics.forth.gr> > To: <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:31:12 +0200 > Subject: [pups] pdp11/73 memory > > I recently found a cabinet with a MicroVAX II (in 2 BA23 enclosures) and > quite a lot storage devices on it. I plan to replace the MicroVAX II CPU > module (M7606-AA) with a pdp11/73 CPU module (M8192) . I only have a > 512k RAM module (M8067LA) for the pdp11/73 . The microVAX has two quad > height memory modules , but I haven't checked yet whether they are 1, 2 > ,4 or 8 megs each (ie M7607,M7608 or M7609) .Is it possible to keep some > of the MicroVAX memory modules if they are below or equal to 4 megs? No. MicroVAX memory uses a different interconnect scheme. It is not in the Qbus address space. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 5 months

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trix src

by Al Kossow

Wesley, what I have of the sources is now up at www.bitsavers.org/MIT/trix You might try contacting Dave Goddeau or Steve Ward to see what else might still exist. Dave's MS thesis was on implementing an MP version of the Trix kernel.

21 years, 5 months

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Re: Possible Trix source tape

by Al Kossow

> From memory, there wasn't that much to it at the time RMS was looking at it. what I should have said was there wasn't much done on Trix when RMS was looking at it.

21 years, 5 months

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Re: Possible Trix source tape

by Al Kossow

I should have this on one of my backup tapes. If RMS is willing to send his tape to California, I have the equipment to read his. -- > It's interesting to consider what might've been if the GNU project > hadn't got behind on the Hurd, and got up-to-speed with Trix. -- If it wasn't tied up with Stanford licensing issues, the V Kernel would have been a more mature system than Trix. From memory, there wasn't that much to it at the time RMS was looking at it.

21 years, 5 months

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32I: spl*() and paging up

by Pat Villani

A quick update. I have spl*() code as well as ia32 paging up in a small test kernel. More testing remains to be done before integrating into 32I kernel. Interrupt structure working well, as well as system call interface. Still need copyin(), copyout(), fubyte(), fuibyte(), fuword(), etc., as well as save(), resume(), etc. Future progress will slow down a little. I have accepted an adjunct teaching position, and will need to devote some otherwise free time to preparing lessons. I still expect to have a preliminary running kernel by New Years. Pat -- I've always found paranoia to be a perfectly defensible position. -- Pat Conroy

21 years, 5 months

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[pups] Possible Trix source tape Was Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Re: AI LabLispmachine source code

by Wesley Parish

First, an explanation - I'm interested in exhuming the Trix kernel - written at MIT -, which for a while was to have been the GNU kernel, according to RMS and the official FSF histories: http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU I've been in contact with RMS - pestering the poor hacker ;) - and he's told me he's got a tape that might have the Trix source on it, but he doesn't have a tape drive or enough time. I'm in NZ, which is a bit of a long way away from Mass., so I'm asking if anyone else in the vicinity is interested in seeing one of the earlier 7th Ed. clones to be written? I've got a number of reasons for wanting to read it - among them, the wish to compare with Minix 0.0 -, putting the ubiquity of Unix during the early 80s into perspective, and of course getting something to generalize any code I write for 32VI. So, if anyone's interested and in the vicinity, just get in touch with RMS and let him know you're interested and have the time. Thanks Wesley Parish P.S. It's interesting to consider what might've been if the GNU project hadn't got behind on the Hurd, and got up-to-speed with Trix. Jokes like "Who says you can't teach an old dog GNU TRIX?" spring immediately to mind ... ----- Forwarded message from Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> ----- Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:17:32 -0500 From: Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> Reply-To: "rms(a)gnu.org" <rms(a)gnu.org> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Re: AI Lab Lispmachine source code To: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> In this context it means, getting someone in the appropriate community who's interested, around to check up on the tape. Ok. I have the tape here. ----- End forwarded message ----- "I me. Shape middled me. I would come out into hot!" I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a symbol of the other horizon.

21 years, 5 months

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RE: [pups] Mini UNIX (V6) and V7 tapes found

by Fred N. van Kempen

All, I wrote: > Looks liek I ran into a bunchof really old and useful tapes > here. Two tapes come from Bell Labs, and seem to contain the > official Mini UNIX (Sixth Edition) and the official UNIX, > Seventh Edition. Hmm. Well, the V7 tape is saved... took a bunch of retries, but I managed to grab all of it. The V6 (Mini-UNIX) tape was OK, but some !$%(!@#$%@# must have run out of blank tapes, and decided to use this one.. it contains binary data. Major bummer, sorry :( Still working on the 2.8BSD tape, which needs more work. I also have to work on Christian Corti's tapes.. now that I have a working 800bpi SCSI drive, I actually *can* :) [thanks Walter!] Images will be sent off to the PUPS archive. Cheers, Fred

21 years, 5 months

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UNIX v7 projects

by Hellwig.Geisse＠mni.fh-giessen.de

Hi all, I thought that you possibly could be interested in two projects, a small one that I did over a year ago and a more recent one, which is currently under active development. In order to become acquainted with the old UNIX sources as well as the behaviour of such a system running on old (but simulated) hardware I figured out how to feed Keith Bostic's original v7 tape images into Robert M. Supnik's PDP-11 simulator so that the original bootstrap procedure (described in "Setting Up Unix - Seventh Edition") could be carried out exactly as written. In addition to that I wrote a little program which traverses the root directory of the simulated disk and extracts its contents recursively (creating the same structure and files in the host's file system). I copied all the needed software and a HOWTO into a distribution package which can be found at http://telexx.mni.fh-giessen.de/PDP11-UNIX I did this little project as a "warm-up" for another and quite a bit bigger project: porting UNIX Seventh Edition to a modern RISC-like microprocessor (named ECO32). This processor and a few peripherals are simulated for now, but we intend to transform it into real hardware (we are thinking of an FPGA implementation). These of course are dreams of the future; what we have already is this: - an ECO32 simulator - an ECO32 back-end for the LCC compiler - an ECO32 assembler/linker/loader - a UNIX 7th Edition kernel ported to ECO32 We are working on a port of many of the commands; the standard library and the shell are ready and waiting to be integrated. The homepage of this project is http://telexx.mni.fh-giessen.de/ECO32 You are welcome to download the project in its current state; don't expect anything user friendly though ;-) If you have any questions regarding these two projects, feel free to ask. - Hellwig

21 years, 5 months

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[pups] Re: AI Lab Lispmachine source code

by Wesley Parish

In that case, do you have any objections to me siccing the TUHS(The Unix Heritage Soc.)http://www.tuhs.org/ /PUPS(PDP11 Unix Preservation Soc.)http://minnie.tuhs.org/PUPS/ people on to it? It is something that interests us, and there'll be at least one list member within driving range of Cambridge, Mass., with plenty of time to examine the tape. I'll cc' this ove to those lists and let anyone who's interested, get in touch with you. Thanks heaps. Wesley Parish Quoting Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org>: > I don't know where to find a copy of TRIX. I saw a cartridge tape > recently that has some Nu machine software, and might have TRIX, > but I don't know. I don't have a drive to read the tape with > or the time to do it. > "I me. Shape middled me. I would come out into hot!" I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a symbol of the other horizon.

21 years, 5 months

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Re: [pups] Mini UNIX (V6) and V7 tapes found

by Jay Jaeger

FYI, the archives should already have Mini-Unix 6th Edition. (I provided the "rescue" copy). As far as I know, it was an unaltered original, so you ought to be able to compare yours with that one. Jay Jaeger At 12:04 AM 11/30/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Looks liek I ran into a bunchof really old and useful tapes >here. Two tapes come from Bell Labs, and seem to contain the >official Mini UNIX (Sixth Edition) and the official UNIX, >Seventh Edition. > >Dennis (dmr): can you verify that Bell wrote these on magtapes >from Graham Magnetics, with blue inside label? All the stickers >and such seem "real". The V7 tape is dated 10/15/79, the V7 one >is from 1977. > >Images available on request.. still wanna know if these are real >ones, or locally-modified ones. > >Cheers, > Fred >_______________________________________________ >PUPS mailing list >PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)charter.net

21 years, 5 months

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[pups] Mini UNIX (V6) and V7 tapes found

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hi all, Looks liek I ran into a bunchof really old and useful tapes here. Two tapes come from Bell Labs, and seem to contain the official Mini UNIX (Sixth Edition) and the official UNIX, Seventh Edition. Dennis (dmr): can you verify that Bell wrote these on magtapes from Graham Magnetics, with blue inside label? All the stickers and such seem "real". The V7 tape is dated 10/15/79, the V7 one is from 1977. Images available on request.. still wanna know if these are real ones, or locally-modified ones. Cheers, Fred

21 years, 5 months

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old Software Tools VOS, anyone?

by Aharon Robbins

Greetings all. Does anyone have any of the old Software Tools Virtual Operating System code? I know someone who is looking for it. On a related topic, if anyone has a copy of the Georgia Tech Software Tools Subsystem for Pr1me Computers, the same person would like a copy (as would I --- I was one of the two people who did the last two releases of it). Thanks, Arnold Robbins

21 years, 5 months

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Re: Anybody with a copy of this paper?

by Dennis Ritchie

I see that Maziels and Coile have already offered to scan (or copy) the Bach & Buroff paper. I have it too, just haven't scanned it. The original requester should also try to find the even earlier work on Unix multiprocessing: Hawley, J. A., Meyer, W. D. (1975) MUNIX: A Multiprocessing Version of UNIX, MoS. Thesis, Naval Postgraduate School - Monterey. June. Goble, G.H. and M.H.Marsh, "A Dual Processor VAX 11/780", Purdue University Technical Report, TR-EE 81-31, Sept. 1981. This used to be at http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/vax/paper.html but for some reason Goble's pages have been withdrawn. Probably it's at www.archive.org, but that seems unavailable just now. Dennis

21 years, 5 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: Anybody with a copy of this paper?

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

I've found that paper here: http://web.archive.org/web/19980111042611/http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/vax/pap… Surprisingly, the graphics in that paper are still shown. Maciek ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Ritchie <dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com> Date: Friday, November 28, 2003 2:36 am Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anybody with a copy of this paper? > I see that Maziels and Coile have already offered > to scan (or copy) the Bach & Buroff paper. I have > it too, just haven't scanned it. > > The original requester should also try to find > the even earlier work on Unix multiprocessing: > > Hawley, J. A., Meyer, W. D. (1975) MUNIX: A Multiprocessing > Version of UNIX, > MoS. Thesis, Naval Postgraduate School - Monterey. June. > > Goble, G.H. and M.H.Marsh, "A Dual Processor VAX 11/780", > Purdue University Technical Report, TR-EE 81-31, Sept. 1981. > > This used to be at > > http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/vax/paper.html > > but for some reason Goble's pages have been > withdrawn. Probably it's at www.archive.org, > but that seems unavailable just now. > > Dennis > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >

21 years, 5 months

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[pups] Sums - help needed

by Robin Birch

This is rather off topic I know but the people in this group stand a good chance of being able to help, so apologies. Now, I am struggling with the sums involved in Reed Solomon encoding/decoding. Can anyone walk me through a couple of worked examples? Cheers Robin -- Robin Birch

21 years, 5 months

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[pups] Any SMP PDP11 platforms?

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I stumbled across this reference to a 1975 Masters thesis: de Brito Meyer. W., and Hawley, J.A.. III. Munix. a multiprocessor version of UNIX. Master's thesis, Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, Calif.. 1975. Description of dual processor Unix. Can anybody tell me what PDP11 platforms around 1975 had multi-CPU capability? Also, if anybody has further information about Munix, please let me know! Thanks in advance for any help. I've trawled thru the Unix Archive with no results. Cheers, Warren

21 years, 5 months

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Anybody with a copy of this paper?

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, would anybody have a copy of this paper: Multiprocessor UNIX operating systems. Bach, M.J., and Buroff. S.J. Bell Systems. Tech. J. 63. 8 (Oct. 1984) 1733-1749. If so, would you be able to scan it in and e-mail it to me, or even photocopy it and post it to me? I'll reimburse you for time & postage. Thanks in advance, Warren

21 years, 5 months

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[pups] UC08 and Ultrix-3.1

by nao

Hi, all. I finally discarded my RD54 haunted by frustrating retries and burnt my yen on an Emulex UC08 board. I installed it to my PDP-11/53 and attached an old DDS2 drive and a 230MB MO drive. Now 2.11BSD runs as smooth as silk. Next I tried to install Ultrix-3.1, but I entered an unexpected weirdness. After entering setup phase 1, the initial setup aborted saying that it failed to access files under /usr. Some lengthy investigation revealed that UC08's emulation confuses Ultrix. The MO drive pretends an RD54 and the installer is quite confident of it. Once the kernel is in service, it checks the controller board and identifies it as a KDA50, which is connected to RAxx drives. Now the kernel treat the MO disk as a RAxx. Since RD54 and RAxx have different partition layout, kernel failes to find /usr filesystem and the installation process fails. To avoid this gap, I put a 540MB drive (bigger than an RA81, which is about 469MB) and configured it to behave as an RA81. The installation process now goes. After carefully studying src/sys/conf/dksizes.c, I also used a 230MB MO disk as an undersized RA81 and it seems to work well. I also tried SIMH. This time an emulated RD54 worked well, but a tape drive suddenly stopped during installation. I traced TMSCP protocol log and found a bug in the tape driver of Ultrix standalone installer, which hitted hidden incompatibility of SIMH. Here is an ad hoc patch for SIMH: --- simh.orig/PDP11/pdp11_tq.c Mon May 19 20:24:04 2003 +++ simh/PDP11/pdp11_tq.c Thu Nov 20 18:32:43 2003 @@ -260,7 +260,7 @@ CMF_SEQ|CMF_RW|MD_CDL|MD_CSE|MD_REV| /* compare */ MD_SCH|MD_SEC|MD_SER, CMF_SEQ|CMF_RW|MD_CDL|MD_CSE|MD_REV|MD_CMP| /* read */ - MD_SCH|MD_SEC|MD_SER, + MD_SCH|MD_SEC|MD_SER|MD_RWD, CMF_SEQ|CMF_RW|CMF_WR|MD_CDL|MD_CSE|MD_IMM| /* write */ MD_CMP|MD_ERW|MD_SEC|MD_SER, 0, /* 35 */ But of course you want to fix Ultrix, don't you? Another patch is here, but it is untested: --- src/sys/sas/tk.c- Sun Jan 24 06:24:58 1988 +++ src/sys/sas/tk.c Fri Nov 21 22:14:15 2003 @@ -247,6 +247,7 @@ op = M_O_READ; else op = M_O_WRITE; + tk.tk_cmd[0].m_modifier = 0; if((mp = tkcmd(op)) == 0) { printf("\n%s magtape error: ", tk_dct); printf("endcode=%o flags=%o status=%o\n", @@ -324,6 +325,7 @@ sizeof(struct tmscp) - sizeof(struct tmscp_header); tk.tk_cmd[0].m_header.tk_vcid = 1; tk.tk_cmd[0].m_cntflgs = 0; + tk.tk_cmd[0].m_modifier = 0; /* need to set the density if TU81 */ if (tkcmd(M_O_STCON) == 0) { printf("\n%s STCON FAILED: can't init controller", tk_dct); Ultrix seems unnecessarily square and not an OS of my type, but a fairly good testbed for emulated software and hardware :-) Naoki Hamada nao(a)tom-yam.or.jp

21 years, 6 months

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RE: [TUHS] SCO reveals major UNIXT IP violations

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Gregg C Levine: Kenneth, doesn't that mean, that their case can be closed, because they themselves are the guilty party? Caldera was bought by SCO. I thought it was the other way around: Caldera bought the UNIX-OS part of SCO, then (around the time the current fracas started) renamed themselves The SCO Group. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 6 months

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SCO reveals major UNIX IP violations

by Kenneth Stailey

an excerpt: << SCO this week said it was "examining" the AT&T settlement to see who might have leaked the ancient AT&T-derived UNIX� code and put it into a BSD distribution. Allowing such hallowed innovations to be used under an open source license, would, we agreed thoroughly devalue SCO's IP assets. So we set about looking for who could perpetrate such a foul violation. And deep on a warez site of dubious origins, we unearthed a highly incriminating statement. There we found a script kiddie shameless boasting of his crime. The poster claimed that he'd released - "... the ancient UNIX releases (V1-7 and 32V) under a "BSD-style" license. I've attached a PDF of the license letter hereto. Feel free to propogate it as you see fit" Propagate? We shivered. The subject line of the email confirmed our worst fears. [...] So after a little digging, we traced this serious UNIX� violation to a hacker outfit called "Caldera Inc." The email was datelined 23 Jan 2002. Perhaps using an assumed identity, the hacker signed himself as "Dion L. Johnson II - Product Manager and one of many open source enthusiasts in Caldera Intl." We shall be doing some more digging soon, to see where these hackers can be traced. And as dutiful citizens, we shall inform The SCO Group of these violations as our enquiries continue. As soon as we find out who these Caldera hackers are. Can you help? >> complete article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34102.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 6 months

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Why Caldera Released Unix: A Brief History

by Kenneth Stailey

http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2002/02/28/caldera.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 6 months

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SCO's additional law suits

by Brantley Coile

Wonder where they are getting the money to do this? Who has the most to gain by shutting down BSD and LINUX? Brantley Coile

21 years, 6 months

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SCO To Expand Its Lawsuit Beyond Linux

by Pat Villani

I wonder how much trouble 32I will be: <http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/3110981> Pat -- Technology is a way of organizing the universe so that man doesn't have to experience it. -- Max Frisch

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Can any of you point me in the directions of a website that completely discusses this operating system, PRO or P/OS? As I recall the DEC Professional system was basically a shrunken PDP-11. Finding one of course, would be a good thing. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )

21 years, 6 months

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32I status as of 17 Nov 2003

by patv＠monmouth.com

1. Converted unpublished locore to AT&T syntax. Work still underway on new locore.S file. 2. Will use coff executable format. May comply with Sys V ABI. The latter is TBD. 3. Gcc is tool chain unless someone wants to take on 32V compiler. May take advantage of inline and asm in machine dependent files. I wouldn't recommend using the 32V compiler, mainly because there are so many syntax changes, as well as newer compiler technology, missing from it as to make it a very challenging project. 4. Gcc cross compile to be used for building. I'll make this available later next month, after I shake out the bugs. 5. May go to Bitkeeper for source control. More to follow. 6. License for all new files to be the "revised BSD license." This is compatible with the Caldera license, an "original BSD license" with the advertising clause specific to Caldera. I want to keep it open source, and this is the best compromise I see for project license. 7. May change spln() to more understandable nomenclature, e.g., spl4() becomes spltty(), similar to BSD practice. 8. 32I is the interim name. I would have preferred Unix version 7, but can't for obvious trademark reasons. Project name still up for grabs. I was thinking of UNX, named after the old DEC name for the facility I work in. Sort of a tribute to days gone by, as is porting 32V. Probably get into trouble for that one as well. --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail. http://www.monmouth.com/

21 years, 6 months

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RE: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

by Fred N. van Kempen

Well, those programs emulate both the CPU (which *is* the same as those found in the PRO systems), but *also* the surrounding stuff like disk controllers, serial controllers and so on. It would not be (that) hard to add "PRO" emulation to SimH, if some sort of hardware specs are still available. cheers, Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregg C Levine [mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:56 AM > To: 'David Evans' > Cc: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: RE: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS > > > Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine > I take it this means that the software written for those things, won't > run on an emulator normally running as a member of the regular PDP > family of machines? Such as the SIMH PDP-11 emulator, or the E11 ones. > Mr. Wilson, (John), mentions the operating system for the PRO, on the > PDF file that describes the E11, both versions as being copyrighted, > and mentions the company name. > ------------------- > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net > ------------------------------------------------------------ > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pups-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org > [mailto:pups-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On > > Behalf Of Wilko Bulte > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:19 PM > > To: David Evans > > Cc: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org; Gregg C Levine > > Subject: Re: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 04:50:21PM -0500, David Evans wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 10:05:33PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > > > > > A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this > correctly) > > > > CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX > models > > > > had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the > Pro's. > > > > And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, that's my memory as well. Rick Macklem did a port of > 2.9BSD to them. > > > I used one for a time; it took something like thirty seconds to > load vi! > > > > The 380 was pretty much OK in my recollection. 350 was downright > slow. > > RD5x drives did not help here.. > > > > -- > > | / o / /_ _ wkb(a)freebie.xs4all.nl > > |/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

21 years, 6 months

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Re: [TUHS] 32I status as of 17 Nov 2003

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

Perhaps v7upgrade would make a nice combination with the 32I kernel. http://www.southern-storm.com.au/v7upgrade.html Maciek > > > > 3. Gcc is tool chain unless someone wants to take on 32V > compiler. May > > take advantage of inline and asm in machine dependent files. > > > > I wouldn't recommend using the 32V compiler, mainly because there > > are so many syntax changes, as well as newer compiler technology, > > missing from it as to make it a very challenging project. > > There are a couple of options here. One is to use one of the > compilersfrom MIT that will match the code in 32V very closely. > You can google for > these if they aren't already on Warren's site. The other option > is to use LCC. I wouldn't use GCC if I were doing it. (Of course > I'm not > so these are just suggestions.)>

21 years, 6 months

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RE: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

by Fred N. van Kempen

> A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly) > CPU. The 380 had a J11, the 350 had an F11. I *believe* the 280 was somewhere between an 11/73 and an 11/53, and the 350 was somewhat like an 11/23. > I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX models > had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on > the Pro's. Correct. If memory serves me right, you had P/OS (a menu-driven branch of the RT11 system), and Venix, a somewhat Unix-like system. Given some work, one should be able to get standard RT working on it. --f

21 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] DEC PRO or P/OS

by John Holden

On Mon, Nov 17, 2003 at 10:05:33PM +0100, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > A Pro350 was an F11, a Pro380 a T11 (I hope I remember this correctly) > CPU. I think you could also run RT-11 on them. Some big VAX models > had Pro's as console processors/systems. RD5x disk drives on the Pro's. > And special I/O cards which only fit in Pros. The Pro380 used the J11 chip. The T11 was a totally different chip, with only the base instruction set (no multiply/divide/floating point) and 8 or 16 bit bus

21 years, 6 months

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Re: Heritage X (was Re: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!)

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

A couple years ago, Sun released Solaris 8 source for free. The whole system is full of SVisms, and AFAIK, the source remains free. Maciek ----- Original Message ----- From: Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 11:58 am Subject: Re: Heritage X (was Re: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!) > > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:13:16 +1300 > > From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> > > Subject: Re: Heritage X (was Re: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote > xterm!!)> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > > > I've personally thought that Sun should release the source trees > of its old > > BSD-based SunOS with the idea of getting back onside with all the > Linux and > > Unix people it pissed off by its "buying" a "Unix" license from > SCO, the > > Societe Commercial du On-Dit, the Commercial Society of > Rumourmongers. > Don't hold your breath. Even SunOS 4.1.x had large chunks of System > V Release 3 > code in it: all the STREAMS stuff and RFS worked in that > environment (not that > anyone ever used it). Also all of /usr/5bin, /usr/5lib etc. > > Arnold > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] Re: History of 32-bit UNIX (was History of 2 BSD)

by Dennis Ritchie

Greg Lehey wrote, > > Others ported the system in those carefree days as well, in > > particular Richard Miller at the University of Wollongong, but I > > don't know much about the other efforts. > I believe the Wollongong port predated the one at Bell Labs. Peter > Gray tells me he still has the original machine they used, and he'd > like to find a museum-like place to keep it. No idea whether it > runs. Greg Rose should know a lot more about this matter. Greg, are > you out there? Having the original Wollongong Interdata 7/32 might be interesting to the Computer History museum, though it might be expensive to transport it across the Pacific. As for dates: the Wollongong port was essentially contemporaneous with ours, certainly independent, and was declared in production sooner (July 1977 vs. spring 1978). Ours was "in principle" done by Aug. 1977, theirs by April '77. Various papers are gathered at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/portpapers.html Greg Rose is definitely still extant. Dennis

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] PDP-11 Documents

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Here's a comment from my side of the pond. Al Kossow has a great collection of PDF files on the PDP-11. Right now I'm grabbing the ones that discuss my current collection of problems. The location is http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/ >From that one, and behind it, sits his entire collection. But that space is entirely the PDP-11. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] RL driver for v6

by Naoki Hamada

Hi. I backported an RL driver to v6 and salvaged files from "v6_rl02_unknown" using it (on SIMH). See http://www.tom-yam.or.jp/2238/rl/ Enjoy! Naoki Hamada nao(a)tom-yam.or.jp

21 years, 6 months

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Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!

by Philip, Naveen J (Naveen)

Hi All I am trying to lauch a xterm window on a remote machine and then once the xterm window is launched from the remote machine I am trying to start a gui on the xterm window. The following is the command I am using to start the xterm .It is failing and giving the error. remsh hostname " . /home/john/.profile >/dev/null 2> /dev/null;xterm" stty: invalid command xterm Xt error: Can't open display also can you let me know once the xterm is open how do we lauch the gui on the xterm window using the same remoteshell.The gui name is nam_gui. Regards, Naveen

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

by Fred N. van Kempen

Ow, c'mon. In *australia*, how hard can it be to find or make space for that priceless collection? Geez! Given the nearly-complete collection of DEC systems, HP-Oz should be deeply ashamed if they don't pitch in, along with other vendors and local support techs. We can't expect all companies to maintain a collection that reflects their history (for tech-practical reasons alone), but we *should* be able to expect them to help others who do it "for" them... > -----Original Message----- > From: Toby Thain [mailto:tobyhome@telegraphics.com.au] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 2:08 PM > To: Dave Horsfall > Cc: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: History of 32-bit UNIX (was History of 2 BSD) > > > > On 11/11/2003, at 3:01 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > > On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Dennis Ritchie wrote: > > > >>> I believe the Wollongong port predated the one at Bell > Labs. Peter > >>> Gray tells me he still has the original machine they > used, and he'd > >>> like to find a museum-like place to keep it. No idea whether it > >>> runs. Greg Rose should know a lot more about this > matter. Greg, are > >>> you out there? > >> > >> Having the original Wollongong Interdata 7/32 might > >> be interesting to the Computer History museum, though > >> it might be expensive to transport it across the Pacific. > > > > Perhaps this would be a better home for it: > > > > http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/museum.htm > > It would not be a safe home until they have solved their eviction > problem (now due for mid-Dec 2003): > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/19/1053196515142.html > and http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/ > > Given the significance of the machine in question, IMHO it would be > safer in care of private individuals until an Australian computer > museum is funded - > http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/ > ACMS%20Prospectus%20rec%20on%2005Feb2003.htm > > Toby > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] Re: A project--buiilding a device to plug into a PDP-11's bus

by John Holden

Gregg C Levine wrote :- > I also recall that the processor in question at one point in its > lifespan, actually used the AM2901 family of bit-slice processors. DEC didn't use 2901's in central processors, but the FPU's for 11/34 and 11/44 used 16 of them to make the 64 bit data path for the FPU. They were also used in some peripherals like the KMC-11. A lot of OEM's (like Emulex) used them in disk/tape/terminal controllers.

21 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed?

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

Quote from http://www.deadmedia.org/notes/3/034.html: "A copy of his first programme-controlled electro-mechanical digital computer, the Z3, was made in 1960 and put on display at the Deutsches Museum in Munich. A copy of the Z1 was constructed in 1989, and can be found in the Museum for Transport and Technology in Berlin." Maciek ----- Original Message ----- From: Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Date: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:43 am Subject: Re: [pups] ACMS (Australian 'puter museum) doomed? > On 2003.11.13 00:06 Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > Not to demean that effort, but don't the Germans have a Z4 still > > working in a museum? That would mean something like 1942. > 1942 would be the Z3, the first computer ever. The Z3 that is in the > Deutsches Museum is AFAIK a rebuild of the original one. (Rebuild > underthe supervision of Konrad Zuse himself.) I don't know if the > Z4 is still > around. Google for "Konrad Zuse" and / or his son "Horst Zuse". Horst > Zuse has put much effort in documenting the work of his father. > > I know that there is a Zuse Z23 in Karlsruhe. It was build in 1956, > based on electron tubes, core and drum memory and it is still fully > functional! > -- > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

21 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] Re: A project--buiilding a device to plug into a PDP-11's bus

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:30:34 +1100 (EST) > From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: [pups] > Re: A project--buiilding a device to plug into a PDP-11's bus > > Gregg C Levine wrote :- > > > I also recall that the processor in question at one point in its > > lifespan, actually used the AM2901 family of bit-slice processors. > > DEC didn't use 2901's in central processors, but the FPU's for 11/34 and > 11/44 used 16 of them to make the 64 bit data path for the FPU. They were > also used in some peripherals like the KMC-11. At one time there was a set of application notes that described how to build a PDP11 clone out of AM2901 bit slices. I think that the performance would have been approximately that of an 11/40, while the time and effort and parts cost would have been prohibitive for a one-off production. It is barely possible that I have a set of those notes somewhere, although it would take a very lucky random search to find them. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] A project--buiilding a device to plug into a PDP-11's bus (or LSI-11)

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine I never had the chance to post this here, but one of my reasons for joining our group, was that I was in the process of designing something to plug into a PDP-11's bus, (or an LSI-11). I never accomplished it, because I didn't have the parts here. Nor the computer either to try out my design. I've now discovered that this company, Luke International, http://www.lukechips.com/ which was formed by a group of former AMD engineers, is selling the parts someone would use to clone a PDP-11 processor. And indeed the AM2908 matches those bus specs. I also recall that the processor in question at one point in its lifespan, actually used the AM2901 family of bit-slice processors. The design is still going through the drawing board status, but now that I've found a place that sells those parts means I am much closer. Regarding those systems, if someone in the US, and preferably the NYC area has a PDP-11/53, or an LSI-11, hanging around, please contact me. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )

21 years, 6 months

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Unsubsribe

by Philip, Naveen J (Naveen)

Hi All Can somebody tell me which link I have to use to unsubscribe from this mailing list?? Regards, Naveen

21 years, 6 months

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SCO File List - Sort Of

by Rhys Weatherley

Groklaw has one of SCO's legal filings in the SCO/IBM case up that contains a list of files that they claim contain infringing material: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031111020447263 It seems to be basically "grep -r (SMP|IBM|NUMA|JFS) /usr/src/linux" with little filtering of the output. The list contains filenames but not the actual line numbers of the supposedly infringing code. So it is pretty useless, but is more of a starting point than we've had to date. I've got dibs on 48 hours in the "how long it takes for the community to find prior public domain sources for all of the above" pool. :-) Cheers, Rhys.

21 years, 6 months

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The PDP11/34 saga ... CONTINUED :)

by asbesto

Hi, Do you remember the broken chip on pdp11/34 ? well, i changed the HC74LS175P with an original SN74LS175N. Now i can write and read correct data on memory :))) and the RED LED "PARITY ERR" on the M7891 board turn OFF while pdp11 is running a program. :))) BUT the pdp11 can't boot: the boot loader program stop after few steps. some details will follow in the next days; now i can't make any further test ... -- [asbesto : freaknet medialab : radio#cybernet : GPG key on keyservers] [ MAIL ATTACH, SPAM, HTML, WORD, and msgs larger than 95K > /dev/null ] [http://www.freaknet.org/asbesto IW9HGS http://kyuzz.org/radiocybernet]

21 years, 6 months

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Re: TUHS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7

by Larry McVoy

> > I've personally thought that Sun should release the source trees of its old > > BSD-based SunOS with the idea of getting back onside with all the Linux and > > Unix people it pissed off by its "buying" a "Unix" license from SCO, the > > Societe Commercial du On-Dit, the Commercial Society of Rumourmongers. > > Don't hold your breath. Even SunOS 4.1.x had large chunks of System V Release 3 > code in it: all the STREAMS stuff and RFS worked in that environment (not that > anyone ever used it). Also all of /usr/5bin, /usr/5lib etc. I removed all that stuff and booted up and ran on a complete free version of SunOS long ago. Read about it here: http://www.bitmover.com/lm/papers/srcos.html -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm

21 years, 6 months

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solaris source (was Re: Heritage X)

by tuhs＠cuzuco.com

That program was canceled, see http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/source/ It was a license, and if you have it, you can not share it with non-licensees. Also it wasn't quite complete. > From: macbiesz(a)optonline.net > A couple years ago, Sun released Solaris 8 source for free. The whole system is full of SVisms, and AFAIK, the source remains free. > > Maciek

21 years, 6 months

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Re: TUHS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 7

by Larry McVoy

> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:39:23 -0800 (PST) > From: Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] 32V/I portability > To: macbiesz(a)optonline.net, tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20031112013923.70852.qmail(a)web60509.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > --- macbiesz(a)optonline.net wrote: > > You could set up a Sourceforge project for 32/I? > > > > Maciek > > Anything but Sourceforge. You will rue the day you chose them. Don't take my If someone gives me a pointer to the tarballs I'll happily import them into BitKeeper and set up a 32vi.bkbits.net that anyone can use. Unlike sourceforge, we're about quality, not quantity, but even so, we have 1/3 as many files under revision control and no performance problems. It's not really sourceforge's fault, they choose CVS and CVS sucks. As Ted T'so said recently "CVS is not the answer, CVS is the question. No is the answer." :) -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm

21 years, 6 months

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Re: [TUHS] 32V/I portability

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

You could set up a Sourceforge project for 32/I? Maciek ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Villani <Pat.Villani(a)hp.com> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 2:41 pm Subject: [TUHS] 32V/I portability > Folks, > > After studying the source code for a while, I found a few explicit > and > implicit vaxisms that need to be rectified. I'd like to purge the > source entirely of these vaxisms, but that would mean that if > anyone > wants to port what I do back to VAX, they'll need to do some work. > > Also, this mailing list is fairly low traffic, and for now my > activities > are very low traffic as well. Should I set up a separate mailing > list > for those interested in this project? > > Opinions? > > Pat > > -- > Outer space is no place for a person of breeding. -- Lady Violet > Bonham > Carter > > > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >

21 years, 6 months

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32V/I portability

by Pat Villani

Folks, After studying the source code for a while, I found a few explicit and implicit vaxisms that need to be rectified. I'd like to purge the source entirely of these vaxisms, but that would mean that if anyone wants to port what I do back to VAX, they'll need to do some work. Also, this mailing list is fairly low traffic, and for now my activities are very low traffic as well. Should I set up a separate mailing list for those interested in this project? Opinions? Pat -- Outer space is no place for a person of breeding. -- Lady Violet Bonham Carter

21 years, 6 months

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Re: Heritage X (was Re: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!)

by Aharon Robbins

> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:13:16 +1300 > From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> > Subject: Re: Heritage X (was Re: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!) > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > I've personally thought that Sun should release the source trees of its old > BSD-based SunOS with the idea of getting back onside with all the Linux and > Unix people it pissed off by its "buying" a "Unix" license from SCO, the > Societe Commercial du On-Dit, the Commercial Society of Rumourmongers. Don't hold your breath. Even SunOS 4.1.x had large chunks of System V Release 3 code in it: all the STREAMS stuff and RFS worked in that environment (not that anyone ever used it). Also all of /usr/5bin, /usr/5lib etc. Arnold

21 years, 6 months

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Re: AW: [pups] History of 2 BSD

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Mario Premke <premke(a)ess-wowi.de> wrote: > Wouldn't that mean to port a 32bit OS (4BSD) back to 16bit (2.xBSD)? Yes. I've never been a fan of 2.xBSD personally. MS

21 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] History of 2 BSD

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Mario Premke <premke(a)ess-wowi.de> wrote: > but I wonder when the step from > 16bit to 32bit was made in BSD. It was not made in BSD. It was made at Ma Bell: the step from V7 to 32V (VAX port of V7). The first Berkeley kernel, 3BSD, was based on 32V and ran on the VAX. (1BSD and 2BSD were distributions of userland utilities and had no kernel. Users added those utilities to their existing V6 or V7 systems.) > Was 2BSD only running on the PDP-11, or > was it ported to other architectures as well? 2BSD was a collection of Berkeley's userland utilities like ex and csh and as such not tied to any particular architecture. While most people used those utilities on V6 and V7 systems (PDP-11), there is no reason why you couldn't compile them under 32V (VAX), or on the Interdata port, or whatever. Don't confuse 2BSD with 2.xBSD, though. The latter came much much later (after 4BSD) and was a backport of some 4BSD features to PDP-11. That one does have a kernel, it's the V7 kernel with some 4BSD bits backported to it. It's what evolutionary biologists call reverse evolution. > What architecture were the > 32bit versions developed on in the beginning? VAX. MS

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] History of 32-bit UNIX (was History of 2 BSD)

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Mario Premke: but I wonder when the step from 16bit to 32bit was made in BSD. Michael Sokolov: It was not made in BSD. It was made at Ma Bell: the step from V7 to 32V (VAX port of V7). You're a little late: researchers at Bell Labs ported UNIX to the 32-bit Interdata 8/32 in 1977. I don't think the resulting system was widely used, but the lessons learned greatly influenced V7. In particular typedef and unsigned were added to C, the compiler became more honest about type checking, and system-interface data structures like struct stat were installed in standard include files rather than being copied into every program. Others ported the system in those carefree days as well, in particular Richard Miller at the University of Wollongong, but I don't know much about the other efforts. But the VAX was by no means the first 32-bit port. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] History of 2 BSD

by Mario Premke

Hello list, hopefully this is not OFF-Topic too far ... but I wonder when the step from 16bit to 32bit was made in BSD. As far as I can see 2BSD is 16bit whereas the succesor(s) is 32bit already. Was 2BSD only running on the PDP-11, or was it ported to other architectures as well? What architecture were the 32bit versions developed on in the beginning? Thanks in advance Mario Premke

21 years, 6 months

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Something quick and easy to do that helps the world

by Kenneth Stailey

You can edit the Wikipedia, it's really easy to pick up on and there are plenty of people involved who can (and will) offer advice if you find yourself struggling. Lots of pages detailing UNIX Hertiage exist now and you can add more if you like. I spent an hour or so today enhancing this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Microsystems __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 6 months

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Re: Heritage X (was Re: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!)

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Speaking of X on Heritage Unix I have a Sun 3/60M with the 1280x1024 monochrome > display. The only display server I have ever gotten to work on it is on NetBSD > 1.3 running the pre-XFree86 X11R6. > > I'm wondering if there are any older UNIXes I could use. I would more than welcome a volunteer to port 4.3BSD-Quasijarus to m68k. (Using pcc of course.) Wanna tackle that one? MS

21 years, 6 months

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RE: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!

by Philip, Naveen J (Naveen)

All, Can anyone suggest some good unix mailing list. Regards, Naveen -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@tuhs.org] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 6:19 PM To: Philip, Naveen J (Naveen) Cc: 'tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org' Subject: Re: [TUHS] Lauch Gui using remote xterm!! On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 06:00:57PM +0530, Philip, Naveen J (Naveen) wrote: > Hi > All > I am trying to lauch a xterm window on a remote machine and then once the > xterm window is launched from the remote machine I am trying to start a gui > on the xterm window. Naveen, this is a mailing list about Heritage Unix. I don't think your question counts as such, unless you're running X11R3 on a Sun2 or something similar. Cheers, Warren

21 years, 6 months

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Lauch Gui using remote xterm!!

by Philip, Naveen J (Naveen)

> Hi > All > I am trying to lauch a xterm window on a remote machine and then once the > xterm window is launched from the remote machine I am trying to start a > gui on the xterm window. > The following is the command I am using to start the xterm .It is failing > and giving the error. > > remsh hostname " . /home/john/.profile >/dev/null 2> /dev/null;xterm" > stty: invalid command > xterm Xt error: Can't open display > > also can you let me know once the xterm is open how do we lauch the gui > on the xterm window using the same remoteshell.The gui name is nam_gui. > > > Regards, > Naveen

21 years, 6 months

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VAX emualtion newsletter

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.didiermorandi.com/vms/vaxvms2itanium_200311en.pdf mildly amusing __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

21 years, 6 months

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Re: pdp11/34 can't boot. help us !

by John Holden

The machine sounds a scary mix of Unibus and Qbus peripherals (a real Heath Robinson!). Given you cannot deposit/examine memory and get correct results, the bootstrap will halt because it runs some diagnostics (including memory) before it attempts to boot a device. The first step it is to strip down the system to the first system unit. You can still leave all the cards in, just remove the unibus jumper from slot 9 and move the terminator M9302 into slot 9 (a-b). For good measure, I'd also remove the M8217 from slot 9 (c-f) and put in a bus grant continuity card if you have one. Since it's (now) the last slot, it shouldn't matter if the grant card is missing. Then try your memory deposit/examine test. I'm assuming here that you have tested all the power supply voltages as it appear that you have a fairly loaded system. Have a look at the following site for more hints:- http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/hints.html

21 years, 6 months

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While on the subject of 32V ...

by Pat Villani

Folks, I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with gcc. Much to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the machine dependent versus the machine independent files (loose classification :-), and compiled again. Naturally, in both cases, you could not actually build a kernel because there are vax specific .s files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad start. As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which could be considered an open source license. This means I should be able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need management approval. Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to justify the effort? Pat -- You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do. -- Henry Ford

21 years, 6 months

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Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...)

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

You should make some kind of status log, showing what parts of the system have been ported, and what still needs to be done. That would make it easier for others to help out. Maciek ----- Original Message ----- From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:56 am Subject: Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...) > I'm trying to work out whether or not gcc takes a look at its own > header files > before or after it looks at the ones I've set it to look at - I got > some > weird warnings and error messages before I expanded the -I to > > gcc -I./../../include -I./../../include/sys -I./../sys/h > > Still need the *.s files in the libraries dealt with, and as > before, I know > nothing of the VAX assembler syntax and mostly x86 in Intel syntax. > > If anyone wants to join in with this, I would be very, very grateful. > > Wesley Parish > > P.S. I've got to redo the utilities - I think that once I get the > libraries > sorted out, the utilities will be easy meat.

21 years, 6 months

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pray for us ! pdp11/34 operation! :)

by asbesto

pray for us !!! in these days we will try to change the broken chip on the pdp11/34 RL01 controller board. some details will follow - we will put online as much information and images as possibile. -- [asbesto : freaknet medialab : radio#cybernet : GPG key on keyservers] [ MAIL ATTACH, SPAM, HTML, WORD, and msgs larger than 95K > /dev/null ] [http://www.freaknet.org/asbesto IW9HGS http://kyuzz.org/radiocybernet]

21 years, 6 months

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Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...)

by Wesley Parish

Just an update - I'm now compiling ~/[...]/32V/usr/src/libc/gen to *.o using gcc set with -I../../include . Most of them compile smoothly. I hope I'll have most of the library compiled to *.o soon, enough for using as the basis for compiling the utilities to 32I. Wesley Parish -- Clinesterton Beademung - in all of love. Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] emulex UC01

by Naoki Hamada

Hi, A few months ago I bought an EMULEX databook titled "DISK AND TAPE PRODUCTS HANDBOOK". I found a quite interesting product named UC01. It is a SCSI controller which can emulate two RLV11/RLV12's with 22bit addressing. It means that you can mimic eight RL02 drives with a crisp ZIP drive! Thus you can enjoy various versions of unix (modified v7, 2.9BSD, 2.11BSD a bit harsh? and maybe even modified v6) without huge cabinets. UC01 seems quite hard to find and expensive if available. EZSystems(http://www.ezsystems.com/) has stocks, $345 each. I want to know if it actually works well with my PDP-11/53 before I try it. Has anyone experience with UC01? Naoki Hamada nao(a)tom-yam.or.jp

21 years, 6 months

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32V kernel update

by Pat Villani

Uploaded new kernel archive. Reworked Makefile. I got it to compile with a stub file. Still much work rewriting machine dependent code. Latest is 32v-031102-01.tar.gz. Available via anonymous ftp at sever.opensourcedepot.com. Pat

21 years, 6 months

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Re: 32V update (was Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...)

by Robertdkeys＠aol.com

Or, for something really wierd...., how about porting 32V to the modern VAXen, such as the scsi 3000 or 4000 class machines? x86 is nice, and good to do because of its generic ubiquity, but somehow it ought to roll again on something, VAX, too.....(:+}}... just for usable posterity. How much of a chore would it be to port from say an Ultrix box? The tool chain should be basically intact. Mebbie it is time to dust off our old VAX 3000 M38 crates. There I go thinking out loud...., again..... Bob Keys

21 years, 6 months

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Re: [TUHS] Unix > 7?

by Robertdkeys＠aol.com

There exists in one of our listmembers archives the last running V10 UNIX for VAX on I believe MVII or MVIII class machines. The availability of it remains a bit in limbo. But, it would be nice to have that available in the public archives, if I could make the suggestion. I would be of the opinion, also, that it would be nice to have them in the publicly available arena for educational, hobby, or whatever the current nomenclature is, use. Perhaps if that person is listening, the subject might be approachable to whomever controls the legalese mumbo-jumbo. It is a long-shot, but ya never know if ya don't ask.....(:+}}... Bob Keys

21 years, 6 months

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Unix > 7?

by Mirian Crzig Lennox

Apologies if this is a FAQ, but is there any prayer of getting 8th, 9th and 10th edition Unix released under some sort of public or educational licence? Now that there are emulators freely available which are capable of running 32V-derived Unix, there would be some practical educational value in having them available; and I for one would be utterly thrilled to be able to see them "in action" (as well as see more of the evolutionary steps from research Unix on to Plan 9). cheers, --Mirian

21 years, 6 months

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Re: 32V

by Dennis Ritchie

The HTML rendition of the paper is much improved now, thanks to Naoki Hamada. Incidentally, I also associate the term "deadstart" with CDC/Cray. Maybe London or Reiser had previous association with that world. On the other hand, in really early Unix, the "cold boot" paper tape recreated everything on the disk. Really cold, just like the "operating system conversion" section of L&R, or for that matter the corresponding section of the one by me and Johnson about the Interdata work. Dennis

21 years, 6 months

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Deadstart (was Re: 32V)

by John Holden

Markus Weber wrote:- > Didn't CDC's NOS use the term "deadstart"? Yes, and some of their machines has 'deadstart panels'. A set of 12 x 12 switches that were the bootstrap for peripherial processor zero (12 bit data/instruction). I think the CDC6600 had 12X12, but some of the latter machines (Cybers) had up to 20x12

21 years, 6 months

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NCR Tower650, UNIX Sys. V Rel.3 on a 68020 :)

by asbesto

Hi, in our free lab in catania we have one of these box, you can see it here: http://www.freaknet.org/history/freakalbum/freak_hardware/tn/dcp02097.jpg.h… we only have this computer, and no manuals, no tapes, no floppy disks, nothing. We made a raw "dd" backup of the whole hard disk, that have some bad tracks :( so, we are wondering if someone here can help us finding information about this machine: PDF manuals, info, tape images, operating system disks, or whatever useful for our computer museum :))) p.s a look at http://www.freaknet.org/history/freakalbum/freak_hardware/ to have a little, poor idea about other machines we have, including the PDP11/34 with the broken chip problem in the RL01 controller board :((( p.s.2. yes, we have printed schematics of PDP11/34. we are organizing to scan all the schemes, maybe this can be useful for someone. Sorry if i'm not so present in this list, but i read it every day, it's a fantastic list. thanks to all :) -- [asbesto : freaknet medialab : radio#cybernet : GPG key on keyservers] [ MAIL ATTACH, SPAM, HTML, WORD, and msgs larger than 95K > /dev/null ] [http://www.freaknet.org/asbesto IW9HGS http://kyuzz.org/radiocybernet]

21 years, 6 months

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AW: [pups] 2.11BSD ftp to moe.2bsd.com

by Mario Premke

Thanks, those are the patch kits, Mario. You grab a system, then patch it up to 'current' with those patches. I expected something like that - any idea where to grab a system? Every now and then, a kind sould releases a fully 'current' system. Are there any old <fully 'current' systems> around? Has anybody tried to run it on an emulator? mario > -----Original Message----- > From: Mario Premke [mailto:premke@ess-wowi.de] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 1:43 PM > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: [pups] 2.11BSD ftp to moe.2bsd.com > > > Hello list, > there is the 2.11 BSD on moe.2bsd.com. I wonder why there aren't any > filenames but only numbers instead. Is there somewhere a > tar-archive of > 2.11BSD on the net? > Thanks > Mario > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

21 years, 6 months

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Re: 32V

by Dennis Ritchie

The London/Reiser internal memo about experiences in porting Unix to the VAX emerged from the company archives, and I scanned and OCRed it: it's underneath http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/portpapers.html As the page cautions, the HTML is missing some stuff, but the PS and PDF are reasonably good. I also have the big pre-OCR PDF image scan if anyone wants to check details. Dennis

21 years, 6 months

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RE: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...

by David Presotto

Arnold forwraded this to me: > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:35:40 -0400 > From: Pat Villani <Pat.Villani(a)hp.com> > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > Subject: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ... > > Folks, > > I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with gcc. Much > to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the machine dependent > versus the machine independent files (loose classification :-), and compiled > again. Naturally, in both cases, you could not actually build a kernel because > there are vax specific .s files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad > start. > > As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to Intel IA32 > platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on until last year (Tru64, > aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V kernel is only a little bigger than the > original FreeDOS kernel I wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD > license, which could be considered an open source license. This means I should > be able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need > management approval. > > Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to justify > the effort? > > Pat > > -- > You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do. -- Henry Ford He noted the following and asked if I'ld like it posted to this list: I see from subsequent mail that a project has been started. The members of this list seem to share some common characteristics: 1. Some spare time for working with code. 2. A willingness to hack on code. 3. A desire to work with cleaner, smaller simpler versions of Unix, instead of the modern, er, *full featured* open source systems (Linux, *BSD). I'd like to suggest that perhaps members of this list should check out Plan 9 From Bell Labs (http://plan9.bell-labs.com) The Plan 9 developers have recently posted a request for help, for people to tackle some projects that need tackling. Why should people here look at it? 1. It's from Bell Labs: quality design and concepts guaranteed. (:-) 2. It's an opportunity to move into the future, instead of hiding out in the past. 3. Plan 9 deserves good help. 4. People who appreciate early Unix and current Plan 9 will be welcomed warmly. So, check it out, We sure would like more people using our system and our license is OSI approved so it least has one stamp as open source. It clearly is not as simple 32V or our 10th edition unix. However, it comes close and is way simpler than either Linux or the current BSDs.

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] 2.11BSD ftp to moe.2bsd.com

by Mario Premke

Hello list, there is the 2.11 BSD on moe.2bsd.com. I wonder why there aren't any filenames but only numbers instead. Is there somewhere a tar-archive of 2.11BSD on the net? Thanks Mario

21 years, 6 months

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[pups] 1972-era unix src found

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hiyas, I just unearthed a unix source tree that seems to be dated 1972. is that of interest, or do we already have it? Cheers, Fred -- InterNetworking, Network Security and Communications Consultants MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Postbus 8, 1400 AA BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 7503090 FAX +31 (35) 7503091 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.

21 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ...

by Steve Nickolas

>From: Pat Villani <Pat.Villani(a)hp.com> >Sent: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:35:40 -0400 >To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org >Subject: [TUHS] While on the subject of 32V ... >Folks, >I recently copied down the 32V source, and compiled the kernel with >gcc. Much to my surprise, most of it compiled. I then split out the >machine dependent versus the machine independent files (loose >classification :-), and compiled again. Naturally, in both cases, you >could not actually build a kernel because there are vax specific .s >files, but the individual C files compiled. Not a bad start. Whew. Goes to show something about GCC backward compatibility. >As a result, I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to >Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on >until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V >kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I >wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which could >be considered an open source license. This means I should be able to >work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still need >management approval. It's basically the old (with advertising) BSD license, AFAICT. >Should I undertake such an project, would there be enough interest to >justify the effort? I for one would be interested... :) >Pat -uso.

21 years, 7 months

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While on the subject of 32V ...

by Phil Garcia

> <snip> > I've been giving serious consideration to porting it to > Intel IA32 platforms. It's much simpler than the unix I worked on > until last year (Tru64, aka OSF/1 and Digital UNIX), and the 32V > kernel is only a little bigger than the original FreeDOS kernel I > wrote. The Caldera license is pretty much a BSD license, which > could be considered an open source license. This means I should be > able to work on it without worrying about IP, although I'd still > need management approval. Should I undertake such an project, would > there be enough interest to justify the effort? I'd certainly be intrigued enough to run it.

21 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:35:32 +1300 > From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish(a)paradise.net.nz> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 21:20, Norman Wilson wrote: > > Wesley Parish: > > > > I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in > > an easily-copyable form? > > > > I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean. > > > > What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable? > > I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be > > easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and > > what you don't. > > I'm a bit more used to using PDF for that purpose, since PDF data > resides in a single file - ergo, easier downloads. Download all the html. (use wget) Make a list of the files in the order that they should appear in the PDF file. Use htmldoc < www.easysw.com/htmldoc/ > to make PDF or PostScript. Htmldoc is interesting software -- it works well and is available in source form with the caveat "here it is, take it and don't bother us unless you want to buy a support contract". carl

21 years, 7 months

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UNIX/32V

by nao

Hi, I am interested in the history of VAX unices. On the modern extreme, I obtained a pretty VAXstation 4000/VLC and it runs NetBSD now. I am more than happy to play the original rogue from 4.2BSD. On the ancient extreme, since I dare not to tame a beast like PDP-11/780, I am reading various papers and codes. Now I am searching for the original article of UNIX/32V: T. B. London & J. F. Reiser, ``A UNIX Operating System for the DEC VAX-11/780 Computer,'' Technical Report TM-78-1353-4, Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ(July 1978), but it seems quite hard to find it. Is there anyone who can tell me how can I obtain a copy? Regards, -nao

21 years, 7 months

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Re: Peter H. Salus comments (+32V)

by Dennis Ritchie

Peter Salus is quoted as saying > ... > When the VAX was ``pre-announced,'' the Unix architects at Bell Labs had become > disillusioned with DEC, they didn't like VMS and they thought that the VAX had > an ``offensively fat instruction set.'' Anyway, Steve Johnson and Dennis > Ritchie were working on their Unix port to the Interdata. (Which Steve referred > to as the ``Intersnail.'') We were far from disillusioned, either with the company or the design; see my contemporary transcription of Ossanna's notes of the preannouncement presentation. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/vax.html But it is true that our own attention was focussed on the Interdata work at the time; not only was it underway, but for stretching portability it looked useful to work on an architecture that was Not "culturally compatible" with the PDP-11. > So DEC approached Charlie Roberts at AT&T in Holmdel, NJ. Tom London, John > Reiser and Ken Swanson were interested; they got a VAX in early 1978. In three > months they ported Version 7 to the VAX. Roberts told me: ``We got the machine > in January, they had it running in April, and by August it really worked.'' >> and indeed left the Vax port to Reiser and London. (VMS didn't figure into the equation.) A later poster, nao, asked about London and Reiser's memo about their work on what became 32V (TM-78-1353-4). This seems to be in the company archives, but not in scanned form. I've ordered a paper copy, but the mechanism sometimes is a black hole. Dennis

21 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX/32V

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Wesley Parish: I was wondering as well, are there any VAX assembler manuals online, in an easily-copyable form? I've encountered html ones, but that isn't quite what I mean. What do you mean, then? In what way isn't HTML suitable? I don't mean to be obstreperous; I just think it would be easier to help if you made it clearer what you need and what you don't. To split hairs further, what do you mean by `VAX assembler manual'? There's a paper named Assember Reference Manual that came in Berkeley's Volume 2C for 3BSD, written by Reiser (Bell Labs) and Henry (Berkeley); it is a compact description of syntax and pseudo-ops, but doesn't list or explain the VAX instruction set itself. The best reference I know for the VAX instruction set is the official DEC manual called VAX Architecture Reference Manual (EK-VAXAR-RM), but at more than 500 pages it is not easily-copyable even in the way we thought of copying when it was published, i.e. that depicted on the cover of the latter-day Lions book. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 7 months

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Peter H. Salus comments on introduction of VAX

by Kenneth Stailey

Admittedly the page is a rant from 1997 but it does have a few tidbits. Page is here: http://www.mids.org/pay/mn/704/bits.html Excerpt about VAX: << And it's over 20 years since Gordon Bell came up with his ideas for a DEC family with a 32-bit architecture. That was implemented by Bill Demmer, Larry Portner, and Bill Strecker as DEC's VAX line: Virtual Address Extension. Bell's notion allowed DEC to produce a line of computers that continues today, and certainly occupied a number of desktops over 15 years ago. When the VAX was ``pre-announced,'' the Unix architects at Bell Labs had become disillusioned with DEC, they didn't like VMS and they thought that the VAX had an ``offensively fat instruction set.'' Anyway, Steve Johnson and Dennis Ritchie were working on their Unix port to the Interdata. (Which Steve referred to as the ``Intersnail.'') So DEC approached Charlie Roberts at AT&T in Holmdel, NJ. Tom London, John Reiser and Ken Swanson were interested; they got a VAX in early 1978. In three months they ported Version 7 to the VAX. Roberts told me: ``We got the machine in January, they had it running in April, and by August it really worked.'' >> __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

21 years, 7 months

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Epiphany?

by Wesley Parish

I downloaded 32V after thinking and thinking and thinking about it, and of course untarred and defeathered it, then had a look at some of the source code. I got a buzz out of reading it! (I usually don't give myself time to read source code, so I suppose I get out of the habit of thinking of it as a pleasure. And University tends to make one think of it as a chore ;^) Just thought I'd pass that on - and thanks to everybody - AT&T, UOC@Berkeley, SCO, Caldera and PUPS/TUHS for allowing me my unexpected pleasures! Much appreciated! Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

21 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Jochen Kunz <jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote: > The thing with NetBSD is that you get a modern *ix like OS complete with > ssh etc. and features like mmap(2) that 4.3BSD-Tahoe doesn't have. Just a nitpick, but ssh is available for 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, look for it in: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/unix/apps/ But yes, NetBSD is a "modern *ix", not UNIX, which is why I can't stand it. My love for UNIX as opposed to "modern *ix"'s is what made me create and run 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. Since I use it as my sole and only OS for my real world computing needs, not a hobby, I have everything for it that one needs in everyday life, including ssh, httpd, Russian support, PostScript support, PPP support, etc. But it's still pure 4.3BSD as all of the latter are just user applications. MS

21 years, 7 months

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RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Markus Weber <jmbw(a)nather.com> wrote: > Stand/copy from tms(0,1) to ra(0,1) fails with a 'disk unlabeled' diagnostic > on a cold disk image. It should print the unlabeled diagnostic, but then proceed rather than fail. I just double-checked the standalone driver source, and it does provide a default label for RA82, as long as the MSCP controller actually returns RA82 as the MSCP disk ID. Does it give you an error message about disk type (some hex humber) not supported? If so, SIMH's MSCP emulation must be lacking in quality. > If only ra0 is > configured for simh, it takes the kernel a long time to decide that ra1, > ra2, and ra3 are offline. Having said that, I do not know how long this > takes on actual hardware. On real HW it takes no noticeable time. > the kernel (and > not simh) subsequently segfaults (trap type 8, code = c0000200, pc = > 8003fe16). Well, obviously this doesn't happen on real HW, since on real HW it works (I'm typing this message on a MicroVAX 3+ running 4.3BSD-Quasijarus). But I will grant the possibility that the kernel is not w/o fault either in that perhaps it's going south (dereferencing a garbage pointer and crashing) when the MSCP controller (in this case SIMH's poor emulation) is doing something it doesn't expect. If this is so, it should be fixed, since even w/o emulators (which I refuse to support on principle) real HW can be broken and return garbage on reg reads, and the kernel must handle it gracefully. I'll look into it. MS

21 years, 7 months

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RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by Gregg C Levine

Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine The RPM file provided didn't build correctly. Remember I did say that I use Slackware. I don't have a running instance of Red Hat here. However, I was able to build a copy of SIMH straight from the current source code. One thing does get to me, though. This creation moves a lot slower on SIMH/VAX, then NetBSD, which worked well enough. I'm guessing that this is indeed a populated pack you have here, but do you have any idea as to why it's practically moving slower then a tortoise? This is running on a Pentium 100. As to your question, yes they are working on it, moving through the 2.4.2x series of kernels. It isn't pretty, but it is working. If you want to join the list to offer complements, or comments, or just lurk, go to their website, and tell the list-manager that I sent you. He'll give you a good seat. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: Markus Weber [mailto:jmbw@nather.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 3:40 PM > To: Gregg C Levine > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > Hi Gregg! > > The src.rpm was built on Redhat 7.3, but you should be able to rebuild in on > a more recent version of Redhat. There is, however, no reason not to do a > straight recompile of the simh sources. I simply prefer to package > everything and thought I may save somebody else the bother. > > My site runs Postnuke, which uses cookies internally. Unless you want to > create an account and login, I doubt that it matters one way or the other if > you reject the cookies or not. > > I would guess that the primary objective of simh/vax is to run OpenVMS, > which it does just fine for me. If you wish, I can dig up a URL for a > beautiful installation-on-simh write-up. You can really follow the standard > instructions to the letter once simh is set up properly. > > It looks like simh can run most, if not all, BSD's. I'm happy with > Quasijaro - it has a certain sentimental value to observe 4.3BSD in its > native habitat. Quasijaro has issues, but they can be worked around. NetBSD > 1.5.2 works with a very minor install-time glitch. OpenBSD is the one I > still haven't figured out; there's an odd fatal error when mounting the root > filesystem. Or rather, there's something very odd about the in-core > disklabel. Come to think of it, there is a common theme of problems relating > to disk labels and first-time access of disks. By and large, it's not clear > (to me) in any of these cases if the emulation is broken or simply exposes > flaws in the OS. > > So the Linux/Vax project is still alive? > > Cheers > -Markus > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gregg C Levine [mailto:hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 2:02 PM > To: 'Markus Weber'; tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > > Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine > Just for the sake of argument, Markus, what was your build environment > for your SRC RPM version of SIMH? Personally I use Slackware Linux > here, and the source code files straight from Bob's site. Also, that > site kept wanting to set a cookie on my machine here. Is that a normal > process? > > Incidentally, the folks building Linux for the VAX, also use SIMH/VAX > for testing, and sometimes even they have problems. So the comment > regarding this product, and the VAX simulation is valid, just needs to > be further tested. > > I, myself, have used it, to boot either VAX VMS, (Didnt workout how > to install it on blank disk though.). or a relative of what we > discuss, as well. > ------------------- > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net > ------------------------------------------------------------ > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On > > Behalf Of Markus Weber > > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:05 AM > > To: Joseph F. Young; tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > > > Thanks to your help it works. Please see > > > > > http://www.itsecuritygeek.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=ar > ticl > > e& > > sid=22 > > > > for an annotated installation transcript. You'll find a > pre-installed disk > > image in the site's Download section. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joseph F. Young [mailto:jy99@swbell.net] > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 1:50 PM > > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > Cc: jy99(a)swbell.net > > Subject: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive > > > > > > From my experience, you need to have a recent release of SIMH in > order to > > run 4.3BSD. A few months ago, I managed to build "working" > Quasijarus and > > Reno disk images (Quasijarus appears to work fine for me, but Reno > is as > > buggy as I remember it being on real hardware). I had to use Ultrix > and > > Netbsd to do the bootstrap/install; I could not get the tape boot to > work > > at all. > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TUHS mailing list > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com) > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003

21 years, 7 months

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Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by Joseph F. Young

From my experience, you need to have a recent release of SIMH in order to run 4.3BSD. A few months ago, I managed to build "working" Quasijarus and Reno disk images (Quasijarus appears to work fine for me, but Reno is as buggy as I remember it being on real hardware). I had to use Ultrix and Netbsd to do the bootstrap/install; I could not get the tape boot to work at all. Here's my SIMH ini file for Quasijarus: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- set cpu 32m set cpu conhalt set tto 7b set tti 7b at rom ka655.bin at nvr nvr.bin set rq0 ra82 at rq0 bsd43q_ra0.dsk set rq1 ra82 at rq1 /dev/null set rq2 ra82 at rq2 /dev/null set rq3 ra82 at rq3 /dev/null set tq0 locked at tq0 BSD43Q_TAPE.tap set dz 7b at -m dz0 4501 at xq eth0 set lpt dis set ts dis set rl dis boot cpu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's an example boot log for Quasijarus under SIMH: >>>boot dua0 (BOOT/R5:0 DUA0 2.. -DUA0 1..0.. loading boot Boot : /vmunix 327204+103384+130352 start 0x23a8 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Sat Oct 2 22:15:38 CDT 1999 msokolov@luthien:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC real mem = 33521664 SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 80 avail mem = 31697920 using 80 buffers containing 655360 bytes of memory MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev 6 tmscp0 at uba0 csr 174500 vec 774, ipl 15 tms0 at tmscp0 slave 0 tms1 at tmscp0 slave 1 uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 770, ipl 15 uda0: version 3 model 3 uda0: DMA burst size set to 4 ra0 at uda0 slave 0: RA82, size = 1216665 sectors ra1 at uda0 slave 1: no disk label: ra82, size = 1216665 sectors ra2 at uda0 slave 2: no disk label: ra82, size = 1216665 sectors ra3 at uda0 slave 3: no disk label: ra82, size = 1216665 sectors dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 vec 300, ipl 15 dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 vec 310, ipl 15 dz2 at uba0 csr 160120 vec 320, ipl 15 dz3 at uba0 csr 160130 vec 330, ipl 15 qe0 at uba0 csr 174440 vec 764, ipl 15 qe0: delqa, hardware address 08:00:2b:aa:bb:cc Changing root device to ra0a WARNING: clock gained 91 days -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE! Automatic reboot in progress... Mon Sep 29 08:38:03 CDT 2003 /dev/ra0a: 669 files, 5242 used, 25429 free (37 frags, 3174 blocks, 0.1% fragmentation) /dev/rra0g: 12267 files, 71408 used, 376714 free (1634 frags, 46885 blocks, 0.4% fragmentation) Mon Sep 29 08:43:51 CDT 2003 checking quotas: done. starting system logger preserving editor files clearing /tmp standard daemons: update cron accounting. starting network daemons: routed named inetd printer. Sep 29 08:44:28 simh named[66]: /etc/named.boot: No such file or directory starting local daemons: sendmail. Mon Sep 29 08:44:52 CDT 2003 4.3 BSD UNIX (simh.localdomain) (console) login: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cheers, ---- Joseph Young jy99(a)swbell.net

21 years, 7 months

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RE: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Markus Weber <jmbw(a)nather.com> wrote: > Clearly, stand boots. I'm hopeful that 4.3-Quasijarus0a will indeed run on > simh. Just be warned that I have heard from others that the kernel won't boot on SIMH due to sucky emulation. > For some follow-up questions... Standalone format supports hp and up disks, > but simh only emulates RL and RQ controllers - which means that the Ultrix > utilities to label a cold disk must be ported or recreated to the simh host > platform. Of course, it may well be that applying a hex editor to the disk > image will suffice. Arghh, why don't people just f-ing get it! Standalone format is what is known as low-level format in the PeeCee world (magnetic level stuff, certainly not needed on an emulator), and it has absolutely nothing to do with disk labeling. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0[a] does not have standalone disklabel, but RA82 is known to the compiled-in tables and thus will work unlabeled. Also Ultrix' disk labels are not useful for 4.3BSD-Tahoe/Quasijarus, since the labels are stored in a different place in a different format. (Berkeley and DEC developed pack labels independently. BSD stores them in the boot block, Ultrix stores them in the root fs superblock, which has the disadvantage of requiring you to create some dummy root fs before you can write a label, even if you want a root fs of different size.) > Am I correct that Quasijarus supports RA82 disks (using the ra type) and the > TK50 tape (as a tms)? Yes. MS

21 years, 7 months

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Any unix for MicroPDP-11?

by Matthew E Hoskins

Greetings all, and forgive me if this was answered prevously, but i didnt see it when i grepped the archive.. Are there any *nix versions in the archive that will run on a MicroPDP11 model 630QZ-AX? Currently it is running RSX-11 /w what looks like a seagate MFM/RLL type HDD. It has only dual floppy for removeable. But i might be able to get my hands on a TK50/70 and qbus adapter for it. Thanks. -Matt -- # Matthew E. Hoskins ############################################# # Information Systems Analyst /| / / / ~~/~~ # # University Information Systems / | / / / / # # New Jersey Institute of Technology / | / / / / / # # University Heights, Newark, NJ 07102 / |/ /___/ / / # # Ph: 973-596-5202 # Beep: pagematt(a)cobol.njit.edu # # Rm: 5400 GITC Building # Email: matt(a)njit.edu # ################################################################### "Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from a perl script" "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin -- John von Neumann"

21 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote: > The 4.3BSD-Quasijarus dists were compressed with a compression format > that's not compatible with either gzip nor old compress(1). Michael > Sokolov should be able to send in some notes on the tools required. Yes, for political reasons I needed to make the 4.3BSD-Quasijarus compressor a version of compress, not gzip (can't have any GNU), but I wanted to have the higher compression ratio of deflation, so I created a new version of compress that supports deflation in addition to the original LZW algorith. You can find the new compress in components/compress.tar either on my FTP site or in Warren's archive in the 4BSD area. > > Is there a set of 4.3BSD-Tahoe Vax distribution files that's complete? > > Not that I know of. "4.3BSD-Tahoe Vax distribution" is an oxymoron. Berkeley released the Tahoe tape with Tahoe binaries, no VAX binaries. I was the one who compiled the Tahoe source for the VAX, and the result was 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0. OTOH, you may be referring to the fact that the Tahoe distribution in the archive is broken. Yes, it is. Unfortunately there was an unrecoverable tape read error. > > Finally, do you know of any 4.3BSD version that will install and run on > > simh? Quasijarus and Tahoe of the Unix Archive are broken for me and Reno > > doesn't boot stand. Admittedly, I haven't tried the vanilla version yet. > > Not that I know of. I'll cc this to the TUHS list and see if any other > people know the answer. This has come up time and again. SIMH's emulation of VAX is too poor. VAX is not an easy architecture to emulate. MS

21 years, 7 months

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Re: 4.3 BSD version in the Unix Archive

by Warren Toomey

On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 11:12:54AM -0500, Markus Weber wrote: > Can you decompress the files in either of the two 4.3BSD-Quasijarus dists > (in /4BSD/Distributions)? If so, how? The oldest versions that I have date > back to a CD somebody cut me in mid-2000, and I can't decompress these files > no matter what. The 4.3BSD-Quasijarus dists were compressed with a compression format that's not compatible with either gzip nor old compress(1). Michael Sokolov should be able to send in some notes on the tools required. > Is there a set of 4.3BSD-Tahoe Vax distribution files that's complete? Not that I know of. > Finally, do you know of any 4.3BSD version that will install and run on > simh? Quasijarus and Tahoe of the Unix Archive are broken for me and Reno > doesn't boot stand. Admittedly, I haven't tried the vanilla version yet. Not that I know of. I'll cc this to the TUHS list and see if any other people know the answer. > If I manage to get a version of 4.3 working on simh, I'll offer a turnkey > system for download on my site. Yes, I'd appreciate that :-) Thanks, Warren

21 years, 8 months

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ctcompare 1.2 is up

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, It's probably bad form to release a new version of a program 24 hours after the last version, but version 1.2 of my C comparison tool is now available at http://minnie.tuhs.org/Programs/Ctcompare. The speed has been vastly improved by using the Rabin-Karp string comparison algorithm, and thanks go to Roger Willcocks who pointed me at the algorithm. There are no other bug fixes, and I shouldn't bring out a new version for quite a while now. So if you have access to any restricted C source trees, maybe you can send me the ctf file of the tree so I can do some comparisons! Cheers, Warren

21 years, 8 months

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Comparing UNIX/Linux Code

by Maciek Bieszczad

An interesting attempt at finding shared code: http://www.rickbradley.com/chron/20030619/ -- Maciek (macbiesz(a)optonline.net)

21 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Lexical comparator

by Warren Toomey

On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 01:41:10PM +0300, Aharon Robbins wrote: > > If anybody has Unix kernel trees which they cannot divulge due to licensing > > restrictions, I'd appreciate you creating tokenised files of the kernel > > source and e-mailing them to me. > > Hmmm. Just between us chickens, given tokenized versions of an entire tree, > how hard would it be to recreate a functional kernel? Pretty damn hard. All identifiers, (variable names) are reduced to a single token. Actually, that's not true. The meaning of the names is removed an replaced with numeric identifiers that are unique to each file. Here's a tokenised portion of 32V (bio.c): 56: struct id10 * 57: id13 ( id14 , id15 ) 58: id16 id14 ; 59: id17 id15 ; 60: { 61: register struct id10 * id18 ; 62: 63: id18 = id19 ( id14 , id15 ) ; 64: if ( id18 ->id20 & id21 ) { 65: #ifdef id1 66: id9 . id5 ++ ; 67: #endif 68: return( id18 ) ; 69: } 70: id18 ->id20 |= id22 ; 71: id18 ->id23 = id24 ; 72: ( * id25 [ id26 ( id14 ) ] . id27 ) ( id18 ) ; 73: #ifdef id1 74: id9 . id3 ++ ; 75: #endif 76: id28 ( id18 ) ; 77: return( id18 ) ; 78: } Now go and check the actual source and work out which function it is! [ see http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/32VKern/usr/src/sys/sys/bio.c.html ] Warren

21 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Andru Luvisi: If SCO holds up a piece of common code and the good guys have no response, that is bad. If SCO holds up a piece of common code and the good guys already know that it actually came from BSD, and are prepared to demonstrate such, that is good. If SCO holds up a piece of common code and the good guys already know that it was contributed to Linux by SCO/Caldera themselves, and are prepared to demonstrate such, that is good. If there is infringing code, it should be taken out of Linux as quickly as possible. ====== I'll grant all those points, but if the idea is to defang SCO, the effort still seems fruitless to me. System V and Linux both contain appallingly large volumes of code. (On a list that discusses the UNIX of the 1970s, perhaps I can say that without creating undue ruckus.) The odds are that quite a lot of the code is similar. Should we really spend months and months tracking it all down and trying to declare where each line came from, or should we wait until SCO declares a specific set of cases that matter (as they must do sooner or later or abandon the court battle)? When one is faced with an enormous set of possible computations, of which only a handful are likely to be needed in the end, lazy evaluation is usually the better choice. It does seem sensible to me for the Linux community to do its best to hunt down any infringing code, and to try to assess whether there's a serious problem lurking that nobody had noticed. But that ought to be a matter of basic ethics, having nothing to do with SCO. I doubt it is likely to make much difference to the court battle anyway: SCO's claim is that the infringing code is there now, that it was put there deliberately at IBM's instigation to do harm to them, and that the harm already exists; removing it now won't change any of that. I think it's a good idea to remove any infringements that are there now, even if they are trivial ones; but let's not fool ourselves that it will pull SCO's fangs to do so. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 8 months

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VMS for MicroVAX 2000

by Natalia Portillo

Hello I know this can be some offtopic as VMS is not a UNIX system, but, I recently adquired a MicroVAX 2000 for a museum and I'm guessing if I can get a tarball of the original VMS installation tape or someone could send me a tape. Thanks in advance. Natalia Portillo Canary Islands Computer Museum

21 years, 8 months

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Lexical comparator, was Re: the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Warren Toomey: For me it's not just a matter of defeating SCO, it's also one of sheer indignation in the face of Saganesque FUD ("billions and billions of lines of code"). I seriously want to know if there's even the tiniest possibility that SCO is right, or if they're are just Smoking Crack Often. That's fair enough. Just remember that no matter how much you scan the code, you can't beat the FUD campaign by doing so. SCO can just claim their tools are better than yours, and continue to stonewall about showing their evidence. And as I said last week, both legally and morally the onus is on SCO to provide proof of their claims: the infringement, that it was done maliciously, that it has caused them harm. The `evidence' they have shown so far makes me doubt very much that they can prove all three of those things, or possibly any but the least- significant case of the first. As I also said last week, I don't mean to discourage anyone from doing code comparisons. Intellectually it's an interesting exercise. Ethically it's the right thing to do if the Linux community thinks it's possible that licensed code got into the system. Even legally it might make some difference to have shown due diligence, though not in the matter presently before the courts. If it makes someone feel less frustrated, that's fine too. But scanning the Linux code won't provide hard proof of anything, any more than you can claim to prove there are no leaks in your roof solely by inspection. If proof is possible, it will work the other way. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Lexical comparator, was Re: the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Robert Brockway: Hi. Don't want to nitpick here but many of us think it is important to get this point straight whenever we are talking about GPLed code. The kernel is licenced (as I'm sure you know). What we are of course concerned about is: a) Code which is licenced in a manner incompatible with the GPL b) Code that the copyright holder did not authorise going into the kernel. I'm sure you were just speaking in shorthand but it is subtle point that many misinterpret. Many people outside the OSS community think that "all that free code" is in the public domain, which it is most definately not. ==== Quite right. I wasn't speaking in shorthand, I was speaking in clumsy; what I should have written is `possible that code restricted by the System V license got into the system.' Licenses come in all flavours, and whether there is any license at all is not the issue here. I certainly didn't mean, for example, to imply that all licenses are evil, reptilian kitten- eaters from another planet. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 8 months

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UNICOS

by Maciek Bieszczad

I am in contact with someone that is looking for UNICOS system sources from (1984 to April 1986). Does anyone have or know where to locate any such sources? -- Maciek (macbiesz(a)optonline.net)

21 years, 8 months

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Re: Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by Roger Willcocks

Here's yet another version of the malloc routines: k_malloc/k_mfree in http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/informatik/osg/lehre/vorl_BS.SRC/malloc.c I wonder where these routines were 'borrowed' from? The code appears to be intermediate between 32V and SVR4, containing assertions and using mapstart/mapsize, but without spl calls. -- Roger

21 years, 8 months

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[pups] IPv6 on 2.11BSD

by David Evans

Har har, I know. Anybody even looked into doing a port? -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans(a)bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

21 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I don't see how any diffing we do will make any difference `in the battle against SCO.' If we find cases in which Linux has incorporated System V licensed code, that will certainly be meaningful; but if, as seems likely, we don't, SCO can just say their tools are better than hours. And besides, it is SCO who have brought the complaint, so both legally and ethically it's up to SCO to prove the case, not up to others to disprove it, no matter what fearsome roars SCO emit. Comparisons done by others are certainly interesting, and I don't want to discourage anyone from doing them; just don't expect it to make any difference to the lawyers. (Not that I'm one, of course.) Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 8 months

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Ancient Mosix patches

by Sven Dehmlow

Hi, I'm searching for patches form: - "UNIX with Satellite Processors" for Unix 6th Edition - "MOS" for Unix 7th Edition - "NSMOS" for AT&T Unix system V release 2 and all other ancient Mosix Versions (yes, the Mosix project changed it's name several times). Any hints? Sven -- "Security is just a state of mind"

21 years, 8 months

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Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by Matthew Mastracci

What about comparing SVR1/2 to 2.4.x? SCO seems to be picking on the early 2.4.x codebase. This should also pick up the SGI code comments in the malloc() function that were recently publicized, though I'm not sure which version Linus removed the code from. Matt.

21 years, 8 months

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Fwd: Helping in the battle against SCO

by Warren Toomey

All, This e-mail below was prompted by an interview I gave about the SCO thing for an Australian paper: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/09/1062902037394.html ----- Forwarded message from Ulrik Petersen <emdros(a)yahoo.dk> ----- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:44:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Ulrik Petersen <emdros(a)yahoo.dk> Subject: Helping in the battle against SCO I saw a recent article in the Sydney Morning Herald in which a Dr. Warren Toomey (presumably you?) was quoted as saying that the TUHS has several members who have access to old copies of UNIX source code. Please ask these people to try out one of the three "shredders" which can compare sourcecode from Linux with other sourcecode, and, if possible, analyze and publish the results. One of these shredders is written by Eric S. Raymond. Here is a link to an article in which he calls for action by people with access to UNIX sourcecode: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1257617,00.asp The program itself can be found here: http://www.catb.org/~esr/comparator/ Regards, Ulrik Petersen, Denmark ----- End forwarded message ----- Anyway, I think it's a good idea, so I'd like to hear from people who have access to recent AT&T code. My GPG and PGP keys are at http://minnie.tuhs.org/warren.html and on most keyservers if you so wish to use them. Thanks, Warren

21 years, 8 months

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Re: SIMH compilation problems

by Rico Pajarola

>I was having some problems compiling SIMH on FreeBSD. The reason is, all >the sources have stray MS-DOS carriage returns (^M), while UNIX only >uses line-feeds (^J). This causes GCC to misread some of the code. I >suggest you convert the sources to UNIX text format. use 'unzip -a' to automatically convert text files when unpacking. >BTW, why is networking not supported on FreeBSD? Does the pcap driver >not work? on FreeBSD you can't send packets directly over bpf (at least not the same way you can on Net-/OpenBSD). I have patches to make it use libnet for sending packets. It's a bit rough, but it works. I can put them up somewhere if anyone is interested. --rp

21 years, 8 months

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SIMH compilation problems

by Maciek Bieszczad

I was having some problems compiling SIMH on FreeBSD. The reason is, all the sources have stray MS-DOS carriage returns (^M), while UNIX only uses line-feeds (^J). This causes GCC to misread some of the code. I suggest you convert the sources to UNIX text format. Once I correct all that, the code compiles fine for me. BTW, why is networking not supported on FreeBSD? Does the pcap driver not work? -- Maciek (macbiesz(a)optonline.net)

21 years, 8 months

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V7 on i386?

by masouds＠stormbird.org

Hello, I was looking through mailing list archives for any attempts of porting UNIX V7 to i386. I saw a discussion of it at http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2002-January/000071.html where Some brave soul tries to port V6 to i386; Does anyone know whether or not anything came out of it? cheers, Masoud PS: needless to say, I've recently joined this mailing list.

21 years, 8 months

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v6on286

by JStevens＠prcnet.com

FYI the reason why it locks is the 286 multi-tasking is busted.. if you comment out the iret in ken/slp.c it goes further, but it's busted none the less...

21 years, 9 months

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v6on286

by JStevens＠prcnet.com

I just downloaded the source, and after much scrounging around I found my old Borland 3.1 compiler.. I built the un.exe, and it does the same thing.. blank screen, and off to nowhere... so I started to add some printf's... Such as this bit in ken\main.c craftproc(); printf("main.c craftproc()\n"); initdevices(); printf("main.c initdevices()\n"); cinit(); printf("main.c cinit()\n"); binit(); printf("main.c binit()\n"); and I modified dmr\cov.c initvid() { // if (video==1) // (gdt_beg+6)->base_l =0; outbyte (VIDCA,VIDCSTART); outbyte (VIDCD,0); outbyte (VIDCA,VIDCEND); outbyte (VIDCD,14); outbyte (VIDCA,VIDADDRL); outbyte (VIDCD,0); outbyte (VIDCA,VIDADDRH); outbyte (VIDCD,0); // clear_screen(vd_attr); cosilence(); } so I could see some more.. it seems to initialize ok under virtual PC.. I think the next thing is to dig for some more info on the 1st task.. My Lyons book is somewhere as I want to create a dummy task that prints "a", and a second one that prints "b", so I can test the scheduler and get "abababababba" or something like that.. Another thing I noticed after trying to build the userland is that crt0.asm is missing.. I'm too much of a newbie to construct that though.. Anyways I'll try to get further this weekend either with my Lyons book, or with v6 on simh.

21 years, 9 months

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Re: Cheriton, Zed, and Thoth

by Al Kossow

I came across his book a few days ago in the Computer Science section of the University of Canterbury (NZ) Library. Does anyone know what happened to it? Where it disappeared to, etc? -- "The Thoth System: Multi-Process Stucturing and Portability" Prof Cheriton has been on the faculty of Stanford University since the early 80's. The book was derived from his PhD thesis at the University of Waterloo. I emailed him about a year ago asking exactly this question, since I was looking for software to run on a TI990 minicomputer, and it's gone.. He didn't really want to even talk much about it. The Stanford V-System is the closest descendent of Thoth. Even that may be difficult to find.

21 years, 9 months

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speaking of Zed...

by bwc＠coraid.com

More than 20 years ago I worked on a CDC minicomputer the Cyber 18/30. I heard about an operating system for it that used Zed. Does anyone know about it? Brantley

21 years, 9 months

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[pups] Cheriton, Zed, and Thoth

by Wesley Parish

I came across his book a few days ago in the Computer Science section of the University of Canterbury (NZ) Library. Does anyone know what happened to it? Where it disappeared to, etc? Zed, for example, is another BCPL derivative, so I feel right at home with it. Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

21 years, 9 months

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Interview with Brian Kernighan

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7035&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 some quotes: << LJ: Is it true that you suggested the name "UNIX" for the long ago OS, Multics? What does that word mean? BK: Yes, long ago. Multics was an acronym for something like Multiplexed Information and Computing Service, and it was big and complicated because it had many of everything. I suggested Unics for Ken's new system, because it was small and had at most one of anything. (Multi and uni are both Latin roots, so it was a very weak pun.) Someone else spelled it with the letter X; no one can remember who. >> << LJ: What UNIX OSes do you like? Linux? BSD? BK: The way I use them, which is as a casual programmer, it doesn't matter--they are all the same. If I encounter some difference, it only makes me mad, because there really isn't any reason for things to be different most of the time. I use Solaris at Princeton, Irix when I visit Bell Labs, and FreeBSD on my Mac; I also have Cygwin on several PCs so that standard tools are readily available. >> But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like booting up all the way. http://www.freebsd.org/platforms/ppc.html << 3 July, 2002 : This page has been significantly updated. FreeBSD/PowerPC currently boots almost to the point of reaching single-user mode. >> Oh well.

21 years, 9 months

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Interview with Brian Kernighan

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Kenneth Stailey: But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like booting up all the way. ======= I think that just underscores the point: it doesn't matter which church the system goes to as long as it works. If everyone was as areligious in their computing the world would be a much better place. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone?

by Steve Nickolas

I used to have an old Lotus 123 1A manual, it was for the 3270PC. It mentioned how there was some windowed system and a way to escape to DOS 2.0 and how 123 had to be run in full-screen mode because it raw-blitted to the video RAM. Sounded like the system was rather Windows 2-like, or at the very least Windows 1-like, back before the Mac. *blink* I don't know, never seen a 3270PC in real life. I do think that this CP/88 might be that windowed system. ...I wonder if it could run on Bochs or some other x86 PC emulator *g* -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

21 years, 10 months

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[pups] Uploading things into the Unix Archive

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I see I've built up a long list of e-mails from people who have stuff to donate to the Unix Archive. There is now an FTP upload area on the machine: ftp to minnie.tuhs.org, cd to incoming. If you do upload anything called XXX, please also include a README.XXX file so I know what it is, where it came from and other useful information. If you have material that cannot be publicly released at present, but would like it archived for safety reasons, simply use random file names, and tell me the correct names in the README file. I will squirrel these things away for later. The area is set to allow uploads and to see the directory contents. No downloads are possible. Thanks all! Warren

21 years, 10 months

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[pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone?

by Wesley Parish

I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and CP/X86 http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence? Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

21 years, 10 months

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[pups] PDP-11 hardware & software usage poll

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hi All, For those of you who don't follow alt.sys.pdp11: I set up a simple web page to start an inventory poll on the number and types of PDP-11 systems used by hobbyists, the operating systems in use on them, and what, if any, licenses are being used for those systems. All this has to do with the whole Mentec not having a license program for the PDP-11 R* operaing systems (RT, RSX and RSTS). After some discussion with Mentec, the site was set up to do the gathering of numbers so we can convince their Management that there are many systems in hobby use, and that there's enough people willing to aquire such a license. Please check out http://www.pdp11.nl/poll.htm and do your magic. None of the information provided will be transferred to anyone- only the summarized info will be made available in a report to Mentec - a copy of which you can request by requesting the 'feedbeck' stuff in the poll. Thanks, and spread the word ! Fred

21 years, 10 months

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[pups] LSI-11? And different versions of E-11

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Here's a question. Does anyone on this list, know where I could obtain an LSI-11? Or even a Heathkit, H-11? And the other question, is: Has anyone gotten the different versions of E-11 to boot the operating systems that are available on the file server? These are versions that are stored on the file server itself. Older then 3.1 is what I am thinking of. For my first question, please reply directly to me. That is, only positive ones. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )

21 years, 10 months

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[TUHS] Ransom Love's Speech that claims SCO will "Add Components" to Linux Kernel To Make It Scale

by Kenneth Stailey

http://radio.weblogs.com/0120124/2003/07/08.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

21 years, 10 months

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Comparing Linux code

by Jos� R. Valverde

Pardon me for posting not being a subscriber, I already subscribe to too many lists and I prefer to readd the archives at Minnie. I've used the procedures described in http://www.rickbradley.com/chron/20030619/ to compare the code in Linux with the code of Solaris. There are a few striking comments shared by .c files, some actually containing "jokes". However. Note that I'll NOT comment on anything I've seen in the Solaris code. I'll only talk of my own experience and what LINUX/BSD code says. Matches for [argh urg not set but urp changed a sensible implementation should n ever do this but rfc793 doesnt prohibit the change so we have to deal with it]: ***SOLARIS SOURCE ID REMOVED*** ./drivers/net/slhc.c Looks like the possible 'joke' shared code. Code inspection confirms. Linux code states that slhc code is (c) by BSD. 4.4BSD-Lite contains the code in ./sys/net/slcompress.c The same code appears first in 4.3BSD in the same file. This is NOT therefore SUN/ATT/SCO code, so I guess I can safely comment on it. This looks like one of those infamous source files from BSD whose copyright comments where stripped before the BSD/ATT lawsuit. SCO might preserve the original, pre-lawsuit ATT code (without the (c) notice) and _believe_ it to be theirs. Actually it makes sense in the UNIX sellout turmoil after the lawsuit that the BSD copyrights were forgotten to be merged back in the code. Should it be so, then perhaps SCO zealots did the so much aired comparison UNIX/Linux but did not care to check their own source code against BSD, thus slipping on this one? There is another source file which _might_ be contaminated, but I can't tell in which direction this might have happened. I won't venture breaking confidentiality agreements, but this I believe I can say: I know from experinece this file has suffered extense enhancements during the '90s, most of which were done by independent developers for Suns. The LINUX comments identify the author as an independent developer of world fame in the area indicating the routines were originally developed for SUN and DEC, so if SCO has any claims it might only be by "license contamination" (i.e. any independent addition must belong to me no matter how indirect because I say so). Actually it might be that Sun and DEC added the changes contributed to them and provided them back to the UNIX reference source. In that case, SCO will have a hard time to claim the code belongs to them and they are not stealing other people's contributed code. Furthermore, if they still claim it's theirs 'cos of license contamination, they will put a hard stress on UNIX vendors: in the '90s some vendors survived mainly because of specialized market niches (e.g. MBONE on Sun, graphics on SGI, etc..): everybody in some field would use the same system, users would contribute fixes to them, and this gave them an advantage. Now, if people see that contributing to any system will make them lose rights over their own code, in the future they won't tie themselves to any specific vendor, and vendors will lose the opportunity of taking advantage of specialized user groups to increase their competitivity. Now, imagine where would Sun be if they had never been able to differentiate themselves as, say, the 'dot com' company during the Internet boom. Were I SCO I'd think twice before hampering licensees ability to capitalize on market niche differentiations because of claims on independent, free code developed by _their_ users. All this, assuming, of course, these are the files in dispute. So far, and assuming these are the files, it mostly looks like external additions to SCO code that lost the original copyright references. It is understandable that SCO modern engineers ignore what happened before the ATT/BSD trial, or even ignore the original author of code reverted back by UNIX licensees, and that ignoring who wrote what, they may believe it is all theirs. But, if these were the files, they'll have a hard time. First for not checking correctly their claims (agains say, BSD code), second for not acknowledging nor keeping track of original authors of contributed code, and finally for claiming ownership of code that does not belong to them. Other files share some odd small comment, often it looks like pure chance, machine/vendor dependent code (probably not ATT/SCO therefore) or common sense, so I didn't investigate those any further. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

21 years, 10 months

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Re: Re: RE: [TUHS] v6on286

by Steve Nickolas

>From: Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> >Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) >To: Steve Nickolas <usagi.tsukino(a)pinku.zzn.com> >Subject: Re: RE: [TUHS] v6on286 >The README says: ><< The kernel makes heavy use of the special 286 protected mode >features >> >Try bochs set to be a 286. I figure that a Celeron is a superset of the 386 - ergo, of the 286 also - so there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I'll do that though, it's safer in a sandbox. >I am wondering if Cygwin could be used to build the code. I see that >ancient C stuff like "=+" was eliminated already. !! I think if you converted the ASM to some other format, you could use Turbo C++ to build it, though...haven't tried that, I don't grok ASM. >Plus check this site out: > >http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml LOL, I have 6 working C compilers on the Windows/DOS side of my box already :) (Turbo C++ 1, Borland C++ 3, Watcom C 11, djgpp, MinGW32, Cygwin) -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

21 years, 10 months

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v6on286

by Steve Nickolas

I was finally able to download a good copy of v6on286 from minnie... I have Borland C++ 3.1, the existing version was built with 3.0. There are no binaries in the v6on286 package for the Unix itself, AFAICT, but I did get a successful MAKE. This is the weird thing, and I'm not sure if it's pilot error, the fact I'm running Windoze, or a glitch in the code. C:\UNIX>un Screen goes blank except for a block flashing cursor. The keyboard does not respond - not even the lights - indicating that the machine is either in a PM loop or completely hung. Has anyone had better luck than me? Or have I had better luck than everyone else (author excluded)? Thx. BTW...I wonder, could some old C compiler be bootstrapped on v6on286 and then V7 ported on it? -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

21 years, 10 months

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RE: [TUHS] v6on286

by Maciek Bieszczad

Ah, silly of me. If I used FTP, that could have saved a couple wasted hours compiling v6on286 :) -- Maciek (macbiesz(a)optonline.net) -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@tuhs.org] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:25 PM To: Maciek Bieszczad Subject: Re: [TUHS] v6on286 ?! It's still here at ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/Other/V6on286/ but I'm not sure why Apache hides the README when the same directory is viewed with http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/V6on286/, I'd better check that out. Warren

21 years, 10 months

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Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Joel Martinez" <president(a)coherent-logic.com> > To: <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:35:24 -0600 > > Is it possible to do this with a fixed length key? > > > Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad. Generate a > > completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each > > successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext. > > The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with > > an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same > > method of course). For various degrees of security, depending on the length of the key. Keys are not used directly for encryption, but are used to generate cryptographically secure pseudo-random sequences. As a starting point, look at < http://www.mindspring.com/~schlafly/crypto/faq.htm > carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 10 months

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Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption

by Carl Lowenstein

> X-From: mirian(a)trantor.cosmic.com (Mirian Crzig Lennox) > Subject: Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:29:59 +0000 (UTC) > > On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:31:08 GMT, John P. Willis <jwillis(a)coherent-logic.com> wrote: > > > >Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here... > >What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data > >has no pattern, > > Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad. Generate a > completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each > successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext. > The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with > an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same > method of course). > > > and one character of encrypted data may stand for many > >different characters when decrypted? > > Assuming you mean "one character of encrypted data might represent any > one of several different characters of plaintext" (not "one > character's worth of encrypted data represents multiple characters > worth of plaintext), this is indeed the effect of a one-time pad. > Just don't ever reuse that key; promptly destroy both copies after > use. > > --Mirian This is hardly the place for a long discussion on such topics, but one might want to look at the FAQ for the net news group sci.crypt. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 10 months

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OT: Patternless Encryption

by John P. Willis

Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here... What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data has no pattern, and one character of encrypted data may stand for many different characters when decrypted?

21 years, 10 months

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Re: RE: [TUHS] v6on286

by Steve Nickolas

>From: Maciek Bieszczad <macbiesz(a)optonline.net> >Sent: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:07:48 -0400 >To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org >Subject: RE: [TUHS] v6on286 >This might help: >http://nibbly.york.ac.uk/mirrors/TUHS/Other/V6on286/README >(I'm not sure why it was removed from TUHS) I did read it. (Hence, my knowledge to use BC3) :) I was aware of the / bug and didn't even make it that far. I was hoping (still am) that someone did build it and make it that far. -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

21 years, 10 months

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Re: Unix Archive

by Warren Toomey

On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 04:36:02PM -0400, Latisha Vernon wrote: > I would like to obtain a CD of the pups archive of UNIX. I have tried to > access the link provided by the pups website, but was told the site no > longer existed. If possible, please provide information on how I might > obtain the CD. I'll forward this to the mailing list; perhaps someone there might help you. Can you tell us where you live? Warren

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V7/8086 I'm a bit behind the times here, but...

by Steve Nickolas

I already had some ideas, and when I saw something called "v7upgrade", a weird thought came to my head... I'm wondering if any gurus out there would be able to point me in the general direction, as far as getting V7 stuff running on an 8086, perhaps a full V7 system. Something like v7upgrade but including a kernel and bootloader. I don't know. Just musing... My only experience with a "real" UNIX is either SunOS via telnet or PicoBSD. I use RH8 Linux, FreeDOS ODIN 0.31 and Win98SE at home. It would be interesting to play with V7 on one of my computers. :) BTW I do have v7upgrade running on my Linux box - sweet! :} -uso. kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

21 years, 10 months

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Re: V7 UNIX on VAX 11/750

by Dennis Ritchie

To clean up some of the questions: We (in our group) owned successively two photographic typesetters: The original Graphics Systems C/A/T, which was used to render the camera- ready copy for several editions of the manual, also the first edition of K&R as well as other books. This exposed characters by flashing a Xenon lamp through a spinning cylinder with the character images arranged around the axis; the character was imaged onto a fiber-optic bundle, which moved horizontally with respect to the paper. The paper was moved vertically. The Linotron 202; it had a CRT on which lines of characters were drawn, with an unmoving, line-wide fiber bundle. Rollers moved the paper vertically. Both of these were managed by us (including the hardware connection, via DR11-C; it stood in for the paper tape that the manufacturers had intended). These used chemical processing to develop the paper. This was messy and (especially for the C/A/T version) smelly, so we were glad when the local Comp Center began offering service on an Autologic APS-5, a machine similar in design to the 202, but better engineered, and the comp center managed the chemistry. This was used for the second edition of K&R, for example. I think what we sent was troff output which the CC converted to Postscript. Later this service was outsourced, then dropped. In recent years laser printers have become good enough that decent camera-ready copy can be generated using them (e.g. for Kernighan and Pike, The Practice of Programming). As for the system aspects: K&R 1 (1978) was done on what would soon be 7th edition Unix, on 11/70; K&R 2 (1988) using 9th edition on VAX 8550. Kernighan and Pike's Unix Programming Evironment (1984) used 8th edition on VAX 11/750. About the releases (or pseudo releases) that Norman mentions: actually 8th edition was somewhat real, in that a consistent tape and captured, probably corresponds fairly well with its manual, and was educationally licensed for real, though not in large quantity. 9th and 10th were indeed more conceptual in that we sent stuff to people (e.g. Norman) who asked, but they weren't collected in complete and coherent form. Dennis

21 years, 11 months

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RE: [TUHS] V7 UNIX on VAX 11/750

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Fear not, Gregg; no twists intended or assumed. It could well be that there was an earlier print run of The UNIX Programming Environment that got it wrong and claimed to be done with V7 on an 11/750. But I've never seen it (which is why I specified the exact edition and printing I was quoting); and if it said that it was an error or a fib. So far as I know nobody ever did a port of straight V7 to a VAX. TUPE was written just before I arrived at the Labs; it's possible that the 11/70 was still around during the writing, though it was gone before I came. I don't know whether the name V8 was coined before the 11/70 was retired. Maybe Dennis remembers more. The original edition of The C Programming Language was certainly done on an 11/70; it may have been published before the VAX hardware existed in the field, and certainly before that part of Bell Labs had one. My beat-up paperback copy (copyright 1978, third printing) credits Graphic Systems for the typesetter, the 11/70 for the system hardware, but just says UNIX--no version stated--for the OS. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 11 months

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V7 UNIX on VAX 11/750

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Look again. The colophon in my copy of The UNIX Programming Environment (first paperback printing of the first edition) says This book was typeset in Times Roman and Courier by the authors, using a Mergenthaler Linotron 202 typesetter driven by a VAX-11/750 running the 8th Edition of the UNIX operating system. I don't have a copy of the latter-day (now contains ISO) C book, but if I recall correctly when it was written, it was probably typed in on a VAX 8550 running the 9th edition system. Probably it was the latter-day 9th, which had crept along quite a bit beyond the hasty 9/e manual. After I made some radical changes to the way device drivers plugged into the kernel, I changed it to print `9Vr2' when it booted, partly to distinguish the old system from the newer one and partly to annoy enough people to reach critical energy to produce a 10/e manual. The tactic took a while but was ultimately successful. For those who don't know the historic chain, the systems loosely called V8, V9, and V10 were never real releases in any sense; they were just names hung on the continuously-evolving system we ran in the 1980s in the Computing Science Research Center at Bell Labs. Brian and Dennis and Rob (and, for six years, I) used that system for everyday work as well as as a sandbox for systems work; hence the credit in the books. There were tapes called V8 and V9 issued to a few specific places under special on-off letter agreement, but they correspond only approximately to the like-numbered manuals. Norman Wilson Toronto ON (which feels a lot like New Jersey this evening)

21 years, 11 months

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RV: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants

by Natalia Portillo

Sorry this message was intented to be sent to the list. (sorry gregg) > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Natalia Portillo [mailto:iosglpgc@teleline.es] > Enviado el: viernes, 27 de junio de 2003 1:51 > Para: 'Gregg C Levine' > Asunto: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants > > > I think that you can always compare with ice creams. > > UNIX is an ice cream brand. > It have many flavours: Bell/AT&T, BSD, Xenix, AIX, A/UX, > Coherent, etc. > There are other brands. > MINIX which have only a flavour. > Linux, with many flavours as RedHat, YDL, Debian, etc > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] En nombre de Gregg C Levine > > Enviado el: martes, 24 de junio de 2003 23:29 > > Para: 'Warren Toomey'; 'The Unix Heritage Society' > > Asunto: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants > > > > > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > > Go ahead and laugh, but your server could be having a bad day today. > > That being said, I am curious myself, as to the differences. Can > > someone come up with the definite explanation regarding which is > > which? > > ------------------- > > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On > > > Behalf Of Warren Toomey > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 6:22 PM > > > To: The Unix Heritage Society > > > Subject: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants > > > > > > I'm not sure why mailman rejected this e-mail. Anyway, here it is. > > > Warren > > > > > > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 > > > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:39:11 -0700 > > > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 > > > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com> > > > To: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es>, > > <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > > > > > > I'm trying to discern the difference between a variant and a > > derivative. > > > :-) Yes, we can trace back to the One True UNIX, but after things > > > started branching it gets pretty confusing. It's possibly an > > > indefensible taxonomy to distinguish a 'variant' > (Coherent? XINU?) > > from > > > a derivative (which would encompass any BSD forms, I guess). > > > > > > FWIW, a while back someone was selling XINU ported to > 8086 (I recall > > > buying a set of 5-1/4" source disks a thousand or so > years ago). Is > > > that more the sort of thing you're looking for? The current > > version(s) > > > of XINU are available at > > http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dec/xsoft.html, > > > according to Google. -- Ian > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TUHS mailing list > > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TUHS mailing list > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > >

21 years, 11 months

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RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Okay. That's almost how I describe the state of the art to my friends, and co-workers, and even customers. But shouldn't you have sent this to the list as well as to me? ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: Natalia Portillo [mailto:iosglpgc@teleline.es] > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:51 PM > To: 'Gregg C Levine' > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants > > I think that you can always compare with ice creams. > > UNIX is an ice cream brand. > It have many flavours: Bell/AT&T, BSD, Xenix, AIX, A/UX, Coherent, etc. > There are other brands. > MINIX which have only a flavour. > Linux, with many flavours as RedHat, YDL, Debian, etc > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] En nombre de Gregg C Levine > > Enviado el: martes, 24 de junio de 2003 23:29 > > Para: 'Warren Toomey'; 'The Unix Heritage Society' > > Asunto: RE: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants > > > > > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > > Go ahead and laugh, but your server could be having a bad day today. > > That being said, I am curious myself, as to the differences. Can > > someone come up with the definite explanation regarding which is > > which? > > ------------------- > > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On > > > Behalf Of Warren Toomey > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 6:22 PM > > > To: The Unix Heritage Society > > > Subject: [TUHS] Unix Derivatives and Variants > > > > > > I'm not sure why mailman rejected this e-mail. Anyway, here it is. > > > Warren > > > > > > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 > > > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:39:11 -0700 > > > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 > > > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com> > > > To: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es>, > > <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > > > > > > I'm trying to discern the difference between a variant and a > > derivative. > > > :-) Yes, we can trace back to the One True UNIX, but after things > > > started branching it gets pretty confusing. It's possibly an > > > indefensible taxonomy to distinguish a 'variant' (Coherent? XINU?) > > from > > > a derivative (which would encompass any BSD forms, I guess). > > > > > > FWIW, a while back someone was selling XINU ported to 8086 (I recall > > > buying a set of 5-1/4" source disks a thousand or so years ago). Is > > > that more the sort of thing you're looking for? The current > > version(s) > > > of XINU are available at > > http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dec/xsoft.html, > > > according to Google. -- Ian > > > _______________________________________________ > > > TUHS mailing list > > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TUHS mailing list > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > >

21 years, 11 months

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Canary Islands

by Natalia Portillo

Just guessing, Any of these antique VAX and other machines running UNIXes arrived my islands? Does anybody know? Is there a possibility for a museum (my computer museum) to get one of these machines? Thanks to all ;)

21 years, 11 months

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V7 UNIX on VAX 11/750

by John Willis

Just noticed in the publication data for "The UNIX Programming Environment" that it was created on a VAX 11/750 running V7 UNIX. How is this possible? I have an 11/750 and V7 is my favorite UNIX... if I could do this, it would be awesome. Anyone have any insights?

21 years, 11 months

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Unix Derivatives and Variants

by Warren Toomey

I'm not sure why mailman rejected this e-mail. Anyway, here it is. Warren Subject: RE: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:39:11 -0700 Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com> To: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es>, <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> I'm trying to discern the difference between a variant and a derivative. :-) Yes, we can trace back to the One True UNIX, but after things started branching it gets pretty confusing. It's possibly an indefensible taxonomy to distinguish a 'variant' (Coherent? XINU?) from a derivative (which would encompass any BSD forms, I guess). FWIW, a while back someone was selling XINU ported to 8086 (I recall buying a set of 5-1/4" source disks a thousand or so years ago). Is that more the sort of thing you're looking for? The current version(s) of XINU are available at http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dec/xsoft.html, according to Google. -- Ian

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086

by zmkm zmkm

warren you missunderstood my point , I didn't imply it has at&t code !, what I meant is it has the look and feel of at&t unix and indeed it was modeled (if you prefer instead of derived :-) ) after unix 6 as per the author and the way it look and feel. as for the book , yup I read both the original book and the second one , that's what I meant it's an educational project oriented towards students. cheers zmkm >From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> >To: The Unix Heritage Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> >Subject: Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:28:41 +1000 > >On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 05:29:11PM +0000, zmkm zmkm wrote: > > actually [Minix is] indeed derived from at&t unix 6 also it feels closer >to > > the actual old unix than other newer variants and it comes with C >compiler and > > an assembler in the distribution > >Sorry to be a pedant here, but Minix was written wholly from scratch and >has no AT&T code in it at all. I know, I've been playing with it since >version 1.1. See also Tanenbaum's Operating Systems: Design and >Implementation >textbook for the fully story. > >Ciao! > Warren >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

21 years, 11 months

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RE: [pups] PDP11 C

by Fred N. van Kempen

He's using RSX :) --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 5:46 PM > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org; robin.birch(a)royalmail.com > Subject: Re: [pups] PDP11 C > > > > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:26:21 +0000 > > Subject: [pups] PDP11 C > > > > Panic over, I've found a copy that I didn't realise I had :-) > > Just out of curiousity, which operating system did you have in > mind? A run-time library is rather OS-dependent. > > carl > > -- > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > clowenst(a)ucsd.edu > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [pups] PDP11 C

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:26:21 +0000 > Subject: [pups] PDP11 C > > Panic over, I've found a copy that I didn't realise I had :-) Just out of curiousity, which operating system did you have in mind? A run-time library is rather OS-dependent. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] question about SIMH tapes

by Wolfgang Helbig

Just to keep it Unix-like, I wrote enblock, which takes a file in stdin a produces a tape file on stdout in SIMH-format. It takes one option, the block size, which defaults to 512. It writes an end of file mark after each run. To write more than one file on one tape, type enblock <file1 >tape ; enblock <file2 >>tape to write an end of tape mark, type enblock </dev/null >>tape You'll find enblock.c at http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/enblock.c >Hi, > >Harti's p11 comes with mktape which when given a control file will turn a set >of files into a tape image. Is there anything like this for SIMH PDP-11? > >Thanks, >Ken

21 years, 11 months

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[pups] PDP11 C

by robin.birch＠royalmail.com

Panic over, I've found a copy that I didn't realise I had :-) Regards Robin This email and any attachments are confidential and intended for the addressee only. If you are not the named recipient, you must not use, disclose, reproduce, copy or distribute the contents of this communication. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and then delete this email from your system.

21 years, 11 months

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[pups] PDP11 C

by robin.birch＠royalmail.com

Hi Everyone, This is slightly off topic I know but does anyone have a PDP11 C run time library reference manual that they can either scan for me or send me so that I can photocopy it. Regards Robin This email and any attachments are confidential and intended for the addressee only. If you are not the named recipient, you must not use, disclose, reproduce, copy or distribute the contents of this communication. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and then delete this email from your system.

21 years, 11 months

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System V

by Sebastien Loisel

Hello, I have located 30 boot floppies for AT&T UNIX SVR4.0 2.1 for the 386 Apparently, only SCSI hard drive controllers are supported. I don't have a machine with a SCSI hard drive (and I'd rather not sacrifice a live machine to svr4.) I tried booting in in bochs, and it sort of works, but it panics relatively early. I suspect it's for the lack of SCSI emulation in bochs, but I'm not sure. I'm trying to find whatever source code there is on those floppies. I've grepped through the disk images, and I did find some source code in the clear. However, I suspect I haven't yet found the kernel source (which is what I'm after.) Disks 13 and 14 have an actual filesystem on them, but many (all?) of the other disks appear to be laid out as flat arrays of bytes without much (any?) filesystem information. The fs on disks 13 and 14 doesn't appear to be completely standard sysv, at least according to my rh8 box. Anyone knows enough about this operating system to help me out? Perhaps some hints as to where the kernel sources might be located, how they are encoded? (I hope the kernel sources are in fact on the disks!) Sebastien Loisel

21 years, 11 months

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Newer copies of SysV?

by Warren Toomey

All, I just received this from Sebastien Loisel. I don't have any recent SysV sources, but I though I'd pass this on to the mailing list in case anybody else can help Sebastien. Warren ----- Forwarded message from "S. Loisel" <loisel(a)math.mcgill.ca> ----- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 12:44:21 -0400 From: "S. Loisel" <loisel(a)math.mcgill.ca> Subject: System V To: wkt(a)tuhs.org Hello, I'm sorry to bother you, but I'm interested in the current Unix debacle. I'm diffing linux kernel sources against Unix sources, and I've written a program to do that efficiently, but I'm afraid that what Unix sources I can locate aren't actually relevant (I've been using what I can find at minnie.tuhs.org...) I know that a lot of people have the correct sources and that they were even available for download on the web, so I was wondering if you could hook me up somehow? I'm a researcher at McGill university in Montreal (http://www.math.mcgill.ca/loisel/) and I would only be using that source code for research. I intend to diff the files and then provide a list of similar files, and I hope to quote the common portions (assuming they are short enough for "fair use.") If you can't help me, can you tell me someone who could? Thank you very much, Sebastien Loisel ----- End forwarded message -----

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086

by zmkm zmkm

warren you missunderstood my point , I didn't imply it has at&t code !, what I meant is it has the look and feel of at&t unix and indeed it was modeled (if you prefer instead of derived :-) ) after unix 6 as per the author and the way it look and feel. as for the book , yup I read both the original book and the second one , that's what I meant it's an educational project oriented towards students. cheers zmkm >From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> >To: The Unix Heritage Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> >Subject: Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 >Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 07:28:41 +1000 > >On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 05:29:11PM +0000, zmkm zmkm wrote: > > actually [Minix is] indeed derived from at&t unix 6 also it feels closer >to > > the actual old unix than other newer variants and it comes with C >compiler and > > an assembler in the distribution > >Sorry to be a pedant here, but Minix was written wholly from scratch and >has no AT&T code in it at all. I know, I've been playing with it since >version 1.1. See also Tanenbaum's Operating Systems: Design and >Implementation >textbook for the fully story. > >Ciao! > Warren >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086

by zmkm zmkm

andru actually it's indeed derived from at&t unix 6 also it feels closer to the actual old unix than other newer variants and it comes with C compiler and an assembler in the distribution , I am currently using 2.0.3 and I like it except for few reservations about its developments tools , it's nice in the way unix purist used to like versions 6 and 7 , small efficient neat and trying hard to become fully posix . the development tools aren't as good as they should be I don't like the ACK (amersterdam compiler kit) it feels gaged but its latest c compiler is highly ansi compatible , its assembler is a close cousin to the old assembler in IBM PC/IX version of unix. to answer natalia you can run it in two modes 16 bit and 32 bit check the 2.0.3 distribution page there are several packages 86/286/386 , don't bother with the so called 2.0.0. or CD distribution it's old., the real nice touch is the version that runs in dos under windows , it's cute but be aware not everything works in due to the limited resources , but I like it for quick hacks. minix was done for educational purposes the book published by AST the guy behind minix contains complete source code and oriented towards students . here's the direct link to 2.0.3. http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/minix/2.0.3/ good luck >From: Andru Luvisi <luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu> >Reply-To: Andru Luvisi <luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu> >To: Natalia Portillo <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es> >CC: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org >Subject: Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT) > >On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, Andru Luvisi wrote: >[snip] > > Minix is available and under a BSD like license. I don't know if it >will > > suit you since it isn't derived from AT&T code, and the source for the >for > > the compiler is not included. > > > > http://www.cs.vu.nl/~ast/minix.html > >I spoke too soon. Apparently the sources for ACK are now available: > ftp://ftp.cs.vu.nl/pub/kjb/ACK/ACK-5.2.tar.gz > >Andru >-- >Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst > >Quote Of The Moment: > Heisenberg may have been here. > >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086

by zmkm zmkm

natalia check also comp.os.minix it's active. zmkm >From: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es> >To: <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> >Subject: [TUHS] Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086 >Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 13:08:28 +0100 > >Is it possible to get a UNIX that runs on a 8086 or 8088 PC? >Or for 80286 or 80386? > >Xenix? >AT&T? >SCO? >Interactive UNIX? > >Where please? > >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Installing SysIII on simh?

by zmkm zmkm

andru I should've known better before I rush my reply :-) , what I meant was since gnu cpio can uncompress those cpio files , so I assumed that it can be uncompressed booted and re packaged as a single .dsk image (like the unix7 thing) , but since I have no background in pdp11 hardware I am not sure how can this be done. cheers. zmkm >From: Andru Luvisi <luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu> >Reply-To: Andru Luvisi <luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu> >To: zmkm zmkm <new_zmkm(a)hotmail.com> >CC: tuhs(a)tuhs.org >Subject: Re: [TUHS] Installing SysIII on simh? >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:21:34 -0700 (PDT) > >On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, zmkm zmkm wrote: > > > > Andu > > > > wouldn't be easier to load it through dsk (I mean download the complete >tar > > and make a dsk out of it) . > >I'm not clear on what you mean by this. Here is how I was planning to do >the install: > > 1) Boot from tape > 2) Install miniroot on disk > 3) Boot from disk > 4) Untar rest of installation onto disk from tar tape file > >The instructions in usr/src/man/docs/setup (in the tar file) talk about >using cpio and cpio format tape files instead of tar, but all I have is a >tar file. > >I have not managed to finish step 3. > >Andru >-- >Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst > > > >Quote Of The Moment: > Appel's method avoids making a large number of small trampoline bounces > by occasionally jumping off the Empire State Building. > -- Henry G. Baker, "Cheney on the M.T.A." > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

21 years, 11 months

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Getting UNIXs for 16-bit 8086

by Natalia Portillo

Is it possible to get a UNIX that runs on a 8086 or 8088 PC? Or for 80286 or 80386? Xenix? AT&T? SCO? Interactive UNIX? Where please?

21 years, 11 months

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[pups] Bootstrap for TS11 (or TU80)

by Guy Sotomayor

Hi, I'm trying to locate a PDP-11 bootstrap for a TS11 or TU80. I've created a unix v7m distribution tape and want to try and install from it. Thanks. -- TTFN - Guy

21 years, 11 months

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[pups] About early Un*x clones

by Wesley Parish

Whitesmith under the capable guidance of Plauger - who else - came up with Idris. And a number of other Un*x clones were duly written at about the same time, according to: http://www.robotwisdom.com/linux/nonnix.html The question is, is it possible to get ahold of those for the early Un*x hobbyist? Does anyone have any knowledge of their whereabouts, and (potential) legal statii? Wesley Parish -- Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

21 years, 11 months

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emulating old PDP-11's

by Kenneth Stailey

Hi, Seems that SIMH/PDP11, p11 and ts10 do not simulate older PDP-11's They appear to cover only /*3 (/23, /53, /73, etc) models. Am I wrong about this? Are there any open source emulators for the /40, /45, or /70? I know about Charon and Esatz. Thanks, Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

21 years, 11 months

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question about SIMH tapes

by Kenneth Stailey

Hi, Harti's p11 comes with mktape which when given a control file will turn a set of files into a tape image. Is there anything like this for SIMH PDP-11? Thanks, Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

21 years, 11 months

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Installing SysIII on simh?

by Andru Luvisi

I am having difficulty installing SysIII on simh. I have attached my simh pdp11 ini file (sys3.simh.bootstrap) and the Perl script used to create the install tape (mksys3tap.pl). Everything seems to go fine while installing the miniroot, but when I try to boot from the "installed" system I don't get very far. Below is a transcript. Any ideas? Andru $ pdp11 sys3.simh.bootstrap PDP-11 simulator V2.10-3 RL: creating new file Create bad block table on last track? [N] UNIX tape boot loader UNIX -- Initial Load: Tape-to-Disk The type of disk drive on which the Root file system will reside, as well as the type of tape drive that will be used for Tape 1 must be specified below. Answer the questions with a 'y' or 'n' followed by a carriage return or line feed. There is no type-ahead -- wait for the question to complete. The character '@' will kill the entire line, while the character '#' will erase the last character typed. RP03 at address 176710?: n RP04/5/6 at address 176700?: n RL01 at address 174400?: y Drive number (0-3)?: 0 Disk drive 0 selected. Mount a formatted pack on drive 0. Ready?: y TU10/TM11 at address 172520?: y Drive number (0-7)?: 0 Tape drive 0 selected. The tape on drive 0 will be read from the current position at 800bpi, 5120 characters (10 blocks) per record, and written onto the pack on drive 0 starting at block 0. Ready?: y Size of filesystem to be copied is 6000 blocks. What is the pack volume label? (e.g. p0001): The pack will be labelled p0001. The boot block for your type of disk drive will now be installed. The file system copy is now complete. To boot the basic unix for your disk and tape drives as indicated above, mount this pack on drive 0 and read in the boot block (block 0) using whatever means you have available; see romboot(8), 70boot(8). Then boot the program unixrltm using diskboot(8). Normally: #0=unixrltm The system will initially come up single-user; see init(8). If you have an upper case only console terminal, you must execute: stty lcase; see stty(1). After UNIX is up, link the file unixrltm to unix using ln(1). # ln /unixrltm /unix Set the date(1). Good Luck! The tape will now be rewound. HALT instruction, PC: 002460 (BR 2456) sim> boot rl0 #0=unixrltm ka6 = 1512 aps = 141774 pc = 1476 ps = 30010 trap type 0 ka6 = 1512 aps = 141666 pc = 113444 ps = 30300 trap type 0 panic: trap

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Installing SysIII on simh?

by zmkm zmkm

Andu wouldn't be easier to load it through dsk (I mean download the complete tar and make a dsk out of it) . zmkm >From: Andru Luvisi <luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu> >Reply-To: Andru Luvisi <luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu> >To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org >Subject: [TUHS] Installing SysIII on simh? >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:36:48 -0700 (PDT) > >I am having difficulty installing SysIII on simh. I have attached my simh >pdp11 ini file (sys3.simh.bootstrap) and the Perl script used to create >the install tape (mksys3tap.pl). Everything seems to go fine while >installing the miniroot, but when I try to boot from the "installed" >system I don't get very far. Below is a transcript. Any ideas? > >Andru > > >$ pdp11 sys3.simh.bootstrap > >PDP-11 simulator V2.10-3 >RL: creating new file >Create bad block table on last track? [N] >UNIX tape boot loader >UNIX -- Initial Load: Tape-to-Disk > >The type of disk drive on which the Root file system will reside, >as well as the type of tape drive that will be used for Tape 1 >must be specified below. > >Answer the questions with a 'y' or 'n' followed by >a carriage return or line feed. >There is no type-ahead -- wait for the question to complete. >The character '@' will kill the entire line, >while the character '#' will erase the last character typed. > >RP03 at address 176710?: n >RP04/5/6 at address 176700?: n >RL01 at address 174400?: y >Drive number (0-3)?: 0 >Disk drive 0 selected. > >Mount a formatted pack on drive 0. >Ready?: y > >TU10/TM11 at address 172520?: y >Drive number (0-7)?: 0 >Tape drive 0 selected. > >The tape on drive 0 will be read from the current position >at 800bpi, 5120 characters (10 blocks) per record, >and written onto the pack on drive 0 starting at block 0. > >Ready?: y >Size of filesystem to be copied is 6000 blocks. >What is the pack volume label? (e.g. p0001): >The pack will be labelled p0001. >The boot block for your type of disk drive will now be installed. > >The file system copy is now complete. > >To boot the basic unix for your disk and tape drives >as indicated above, mount this pack on drive 0 >and read in the boot block (block 0) using >whatever means you have available; see romboot(8), 70boot(8). > >Then boot the program unixrltm using diskboot(8). >Normally: #0=unixrltm > >The system will initially come up single-user; see init(8). >If you have an upper case only console terminal, >you must execute: stty lcase; see stty(1). > >After UNIX is up, link the file unixrltm to unix using ln(1). > # ln /unixrltm /unix > >Set the date(1). > >Good Luck! > >The tape will now be rewound. > > >HALT instruction, PC: 002460 (BR 2456) >sim> boot rl0 >#0=unixrltm >ka6 = 1512 >aps = 141774 >pc = 1476 ps = 30010 >trap type 0 >ka6 = 1512 >aps = 141666 >pc = 113444 ps = 30300 >trap type 0 >panic: trap > ><< sys3.simh.bootstrap >> ><< mksys3tap.pl >> >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

21 years, 11 months

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SCO removed the anchient UNIX offer web page

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.sco.com/offers/ancient_unix.html http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.sco.com/offers/ancient_unix.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] What about the license from Jan 23, 2002?

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Just to clarify, what Brantley has is his own copy of the Bill Broderick letter, printed from the PDF file. If it's valid, it is effectively unrevokable anyway as it grants permission to use and distribute freely to anyone as long as credit to Caldera is maintained. But as long as nobody has a signed original it may be messy to prove that it's valid. On the other hand, I assume that if it can be shown that Caldera were aware of the letter and behaved as if it were valid, there are no secrets left to protect in V7 or 32/V. On the other leg, however, that letter doesn't open up System III. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 11 months

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What about the license from Jan 23, 2002?

by bwc＠coraid.com

I've got a sheet of paper here that is a license from Caldera dated January 23, 2002. Isn't that the current license? I don't see any timer limit on the license. Brantley

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] My response to SCO vs. Linux

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:46:27 +0930 > From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog(a)lemis.com> > To: zmkm zmkm <new_zmkm(a)hotmail.com> > Content-Disposition: inline > > On Thursday, 12 June 2003 at 11:31:52 +0000, zmkm zmkm wrote: > > > > Good old dear BSD , where is it ?? still fighting a niche turf , why > > it didn?t burst in the open ? > > Glad you asked. It was the victim of a law suit ten years ago. Don't > underestimate what the current legal challenges can do to Linux. > > Greg In case you are referring to the BSD vs. AT&T suit, BSD won. carl

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] VAX-11/780 emulation

by zmkm zmkm

Hi all what about eVAX ??? , any one tried this ? is it any good ?? Akito I don't know if you got my earlier email it was bounced back earlier today from TUHS any way v32 doesn't support virtual memory. zmkm >From: Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> >To: Akito Fujita <akito_fujita(a)mvg.biglobe.ne.jp>, tuhs(a)tuhs.org >CC: Akito Fujita <akito_fujita(a)mvg.biglobe.ne.jp> >Subject: Re: [TUHS] VAX-11/780 emulation >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:26:26 -0700 (PDT) > > >--- Akito Fujita <akito_fujita(a)mvg.biglobe.ne.jp> wrote: > > Hi > > > > I have a plan to run UNIX/32V using SIMH. > > > > UNIX/32V is required VAX-11/780 > > and SIMH support Micro VAX III (?) only. > > Is it possible without any modification ? > >VAX-11/780 is a unibus VAX. >Micro VAX III / SIMH VAX is a Qbus VAX. > >http://world.std.com/~bdc/projects/vaxen/vax-perf.html > >SIMH is "Mayfair III" on that page. > > > Does anyone try this ? > > Are there more better emulator than SIMH ? > > or Should I add the feature of 11/780 emulation into SIHM ? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > - Akito > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TUHS mailing list > > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

21 years, 11 months

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VAX-11/780 emulation

by Akito Fujita

Hi I have a plan to run UNIX/32V using SIMH. UNIX/32V is required VAX-11/780 and SIMH support Micro VAX III (?) only. Is it possible without any modification ? Does anyone try this ? Are there more better emulator than SIMH ? or Should I add the feature of 11/780 emulation into SIHM ? Thanks - Akito

21 years, 11 months

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I knew that penguin couldn't be trusted

by Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai

If you believe Mr Sontag's words of course. I sincerely wonder what kind of medication the guy is using. http://www.byte.com/documents/s=8276/byt1055784622054/0616_marshall.html Best part: At this point I started to think about the public interest and about restrictive monopolies laws. It was almost as though Sontag was reading my mind.and yes, SCO has that base covered too. I listened to how IBM has bypassed U.S. export controls with Linux. How "Syria and Libya and North Korea" are all building supercomputers with Linux and inexpensive Intel hardware, in violation of U.S. export control laws. These laws would normally restrict export of technologies such as JFS, NUMA, RCU, and SMP.and, (I was waiting for this) "encryption technologies." "We know that is occurring in Syria," I heard, even though my mind was fogging over at this point. "So are you saying that the U.S. government might file a "Friend of the Court Brief" to support your case against IBM?" I blurted out. "Don't be surprised" was Sontag's answer. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai / a capoeirista PGP fingerprint: 2D92 980E 45FE 2C28 9DB7 9D88 97E6 839B 2EAC 625B http://www.tendra.org/ | http://www.in-nomine.org/~asmodai/diary/ Is there a place deep within, a place where you hide your darkest Sins..?

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] My response to SCO vs. Linux

by zmkm zmkm

Michael I dont agree with you on this , your complain about linux is unfair , on the contrary to many unixers especially the new generation of hackers and new unix users even those users fed up with Microsoft gimmicks , linux was miracle touch that helped to re energize the otherwise stale unix market , simply look at the market today which operating system has grown beyond any expectations ? . Another thing , in the days of corporate greed and bullying a-la-microsoft way, linux played a significant role to cement the open source movement. Good old dear BSD , where is it ?? still fighting a niche turf , why it didnt burst in the open ? , its troubles doesnt have anything to do with linux its been there way before linux surfaced. I will not go into this flame war which is better BSD or Linux because both are dear to me and each has its own strong points and weaknesses . Finally , this whole nonsense from SCO wouldn't be there if SCO had any good products to offer or enjoying good revenue , so this law suite shows how desperate SCO is sinking in the red and using this law suite to float itself again . Love it or hate it linux is here to stay J . _______________ preparing for eventual flame war , automatic sprinkler = check fire extinguishers = check fire fighting water hose = check fire proof suite and helmet = check all systems go . zmkm >From: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) >To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org >Subject: [TUHS] My response to SCO vs. Linux >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 03 14:01:08 PDT > >Here is my response to SCO vs. Linux. The thing is, some of the things they >are >saying I agree with most emphatically, except that what those things really >support is not SCO but our TUHS cause. Their main line, at least as I >interpret >it, is that UNIX is the real OS, UNIX is better than Linux, and Linux is >just a >naughty child that is becoming more and more of a nuisance to the adults. I >agree wholeheartedly! I and many other UNIX bigots have been more vocal >about >this than SCO. > >BUT... UNIX is not what SCO means by this term, UNIX is V7 -> 4BSD! That is >the >real UNIX, USG is just a bad commercialized branch that no one ever really >liked anyway! So to all those Fortune 1000 (or whatever that was) companies >warned by SCO to stop running Linux, they should throw out those cheap >micros, >put all their old large VAXen back online, and run True UNIX, 4.3 BSD UNIX! >And >that *is* real UNIX, it comes directly from V7 and openly and proudly >admits to >this fact! Isn't an OS that openly and proudly admits to come directly from >Holy UNIX better than a cheap UNIX copycat that needs to be sued in court >to >determine what the hell it really is? > >But SCO probably won't be too happy about it as they just gave away the >True >UNIX (V7) to the World for free, and it's non-retractable. > >So if anything good comes out of this lawsuit it's that maybe, just maybe, >BSD >will finally get some attention and use over Linux. The Free Computing >community doesn't have to suffer any loss whatsoever if SCO wins, we can >instead just switch from Linux to the much better True UNIX, which is just >as >free but a lot more solid, mature, and True. And stick it to SCO and laugh >diabolically at how they voluntarily made UNIX free without us having to >seize >it by force in a revolution. > >MS (donning the flameproof spacesuit) >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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[TUHS] Pirates Of Penguinance (Apologies to Gilbert, Sullivan, and most of humanity)

by Kenneth Stailey

http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PiratesOfPenguinance __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com

21 years, 11 months

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Re: Your message to TUHS awaits moderator approval

by Jim Capp

Hmmm, I thought I *was* a member ... is it possible I am a member as jcapp(a)kp.net? or jcapp(a)acm.org? Do I need to submit under another address or am I missing the boat? Thanks, Jim On Thu, Jun 12, 2003 at 11:32:44PM +1000, tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > Your mail to 'TUHS' with the subject > > Another response to SCO vs. Linux > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Post by non-member to a members-only list > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/confirm/tuhs/de9265d7287d853c78061cb586498f9…

21 years, 11 months

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Another response to SCO vs. Linux

by Jim Capp

Hi All, I have been an avid UNIX fan since 1983 when I read my first UNIX manual and realized the power and flexibility of the command line utilities and portability of the C compiler. I have used many flavors of *NIX and the companies I worked for sold a lot of SCO products. However, it became increasingly annoying to have to spend an extra $1,000 to get a C compiler. Beginning in 1994, we began replacing AT&T Unix, SCO Xenix, and SCO Unix with Linux. The final straw for us using SCO was when a major client upgraded their system from a 2-CPU NCR to a 4-CPU Gateway and it took us hours to locate all the necessary drivers to make it fly. Then afterwards, the client could not find their license materials. Just for fun, we popped in a RH7.1 version of Linux and it booted fine, located all the hardware and installed itself in about a half-hour. It has been running that way for the last two years. We had another client simply upgrade their SCO Unix system from a Pentium-100 to a Pentium III. After spending hours trying to move their SCO license and finding out that the bootloaders didn't like *something* (unknown to this day) we went back to the customer and suggested another path. Today, that system is running Linux/Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL. The bottom line is that Linux works well. The fact that it is nearly free (cost of media/downloads/time etc.) is a nice bonus. IMHO, SCO is a victim of their own design (who would symbolically link 1,000 files to some strange /opt/SCO/.../.../etc/init.d/....??? I guess when your business models don't pan out, you can always sue somebody ... especially when someone like Microsoft gives you the money. Do you really think Microsoft would pay $10,000,000 to anyone else without a fight and without trying every other business tactic that they have used in the past? Finally, to threaten pulling IBM's AIX license unless they "settle" is hubris. My only fear is that a judge might think 80 out of 2.5 million lines of code has some significant value :-/ I sincerely hope the dialogue of practical arguments against SCO that I have seen in this list make it to the right people in defense of IBM. Sincerely, Jim Capp

21 years, 11 months

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Re: SCO vs IBM: what unix patents?

by Dennis Ritchie

Arnold asked, > Just out of curiousity, what patents are there in the current Unix System V > system? The setuid patent was released to the public, so that can't be > an issue. And copyright, trade secrets, blah blah, I can understand. But > I'm curious what is there in System V that has actually been patented? One article I read mentioned three, all visible in the USPTO database: 5,652,854 (filed 1995, granted 1997, assigned to Novell) 5,265,250 (filed 1990, granted 1993, originally assigned to AT&T) 6,097,384 (filed 1995, granted 2000, assigned to Novell) The first has to do with page table mapping and virtual address space, the second with RPC, the third with managing memory in subobjects. I have no idea how central these are to the case. They appear rather peripheral to me. Dennis

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The Open Group vs. SCO

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.opengroup.org/ Who Owns UNIX�? You may have seen recent press articles announcing that SCO is the owner of UNIX or has licensed UNIX to Microsoft. Such statements are inaccurate, misleading and cause considerable confusion. The Open Group has owned the registered trademark UNIX since 1994. Here http://www.opengroup.org/comm/press/who-owns-unix.htm is what we said in response to a Linux Weekly News article last week. Also available is a backgrounder http://www.opengroup.org/comm/press/unix-backgrounder.htm that explains the history and reasons why The Open Group takes action on trademark misuse. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com

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This is too weird

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.sco.com/scosource/ Way to weird: http://www.sco.com/scosource/linuxqanda.html Q: What is SVR6? A: SVR6 is the code name for the next-generation operating platform designed to take advantage of Web services and is the foundation of our SCOx strategy. As the owners of the UNIX operating system, it is incumbent upon SCO to advance the UNIX kernel for both 32-bit and 64-bit architectures. This will be accomplished through the support of key industry partners who will also contribute to this next-generation platform. SVR6 will be formally announced at our upcoming SCO Forum event to be held in Las Vegas, Nevada on August 17-19 at the MGM Grand Hotel. It just keeps getting weirder: http://www.sco.com/scosource/unixtree/unixhistory01.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com

21 years, 11 months

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SCO to have violated GPL?

by Jeroen Ruigrok/asmodai

As seen on Slashdot: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,1123176,00.asp Some members of the open-source community are claiming that the SCO Group may have violated the terms of the GNU GPL (General Public License) by incorporating source code from the Linux kernel into the Linux Kernel Personality feature found in SCO Unix without giving the changes back to the community or displaying copyright notices attributing the code to Linux. A source close to SCO, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told eWEEK that parts of the Linux kernel code were copied into the Unix System V source tree by former or current SCO employees. That could violate the conditions of the GNU GPL, which states that any amendments to open-source code used in a commercial product must be given back to the community or a copyright notice must be displayed attributable to Linux, he said. The source, who has seen both the Unix System V source code and the Linux source code and who assisted with a SCO project to bring the two kernels closer together, said that SCO "basically re-implemented the Linux kernel with functions available in the Unix kernel to build what is now known as the Linux Kernel Personality (LKP) in SCO Unix." The LKP is a feature that allows users to run standard Linux applications along with standard Unix applications on a single system using the UnixWare kernel. "During that project we often came across sections of code that looked very similar, in fact we wondered why even variable names were identical. It looked very much like both codes had the same origin, but that was good as the implementation of 95 percent of all Linux system calls on the Unix kernel turned out to be literally 'one-liners'," the source said. Only a handful of system calls.socketcall, ipc and clone.were fairly difficult to implement as they involved the obvious differentiators between Linux and Unix: networking, inter-process communication and kernel threads, the source said. -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai / a capoeirista PGP fingerprint: 2D92 980E 45FE 2C28 9DB7 9D88 97E6 839B 2EAC 625B http://www.tendra.org/ | http://www.in-nomine.org/~asmodai/diary/ I am the impossibility...

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SCO vs IBM: what unix patents?

by Aharon Robbins

Just out of curiousity, what patents are there in the current Unix System V system? The setuid patent was released to the public, so that can't be an issue. And copyright, trade secrets, blah blah, I can understand. But I'm curious what is there in System V that has actually been patented? Thanks, Arnold

21 years, 11 months

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My response to SCO vs. Linux

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Here is my response to SCO vs. Linux. The thing is, some of the things they are saying I agree with most emphatically, except that what those things really support is not SCO but our TUHS cause. Their main line, at least as I interpret it, is that UNIX is the real OS, UNIX is better than Linux, and Linux is just a naughty child that is becoming more and more of a nuisance to the adults. I agree wholeheartedly! I and many other UNIX bigots have been more vocal about this than SCO. BUT... UNIX is not what SCO means by this term, UNIX is V7 -> 4BSD! That is the real UNIX, USG is just a bad commercialized branch that no one ever really liked anyway! So to all those Fortune 1000 (or whatever that was) companies warned by SCO to stop running Linux, they should throw out those cheap micros, put all their old large VAXen back online, and run True UNIX, 4.3 BSD UNIX! And that *is* real UNIX, it comes directly from V7 and openly and proudly admits to this fact! Isn't an OS that openly and proudly admits to come directly from Holy UNIX better than a cheap UNIX copycat that needs to be sued in court to determine what the hell it really is? But SCO probably won't be too happy about it as they just gave away the True UNIX (V7) to the World for free, and it's non-retractable. So if anything good comes out of this lawsuit it's that maybe, just maybe, BSD will finally get some attention and use over Linux. The Free Computing community doesn't have to suffer any loss whatsoever if SCO wins, we can instead just switch from Linux to the much better True UNIX, which is just as free but a lot more solid, mature, and True. And stick it to SCO and laugh diabolically at how they voluntarily made UNIX free without us having to seize it by force in a revolution. MS (donning the flameproof spacesuit)

21 years, 11 months

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one person comments on his attorney's take on the SCO NDA

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3752 In a nutshell the SCO NDA is a gag, a muzzle. It restricts you to only being able to say "yes there is common code" or "no there is no common code", nothing else may be said by you without violating the NDA. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] SCO vs. IBM: NOVELL steps up to the plate

by zmkm zmkm

Looks like sco has learned a lot from its cozying up with microsoft that is instead of meeting market challenges with better technology and competitive pricing against its competitors it resorts to the lowest form bullying marketing gimmicks and legal arm twisting just like microsoft style , so now they look like shooting themselves in the foot , good ! let's hope they shoot both feet !. >From: Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> >To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org >Subject: Re: [TUHS] SCO vs. IBM: NOVELL steps up to the plate >Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:32:55 -0700 (PDT) > >Two words: "version control". > >If the code that SCO purports is copied into Linux is known the version >control >archives will say who inserted it. It will be very easy to prove if >Caldera >inserted the code themselves. > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >http://calendar.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

21 years, 11 months

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Re: Re: [TUHS] SCO vs. IBM: NOVELL steps up to the plate

by Norman Wilson

Kenneth Stailey: Two words: "version control". If the code that SCO purports is copied into Linux is known the version control archives will say who inserted it. It will be very easy to prove if Caldera inserted the code themselves. Alas, two more words: "read-write storage." Version control info is stored in a file; how do we know (as SCalderaO might argue) that some hacker hasn't edited it after the fact to pretend something was put in by Caldera, or that they just lied about it to begin with? Version control data might be a useful, but I suspect only as a trail to specific people whose could then offer personal testimony about the history of a particular piece of code. The testimony would be harder to impeach than the code. Even a read-only copy of the version control info, e.g. a CD-ROM, isn't a lot more solid; some hard evidence would be needed of when that CD-ROM was written, beyond the easily-forged timestamps on the disc itself, and there could still be a claim that someone just lied when writing it, especially if there is a claim that malice was involved. So it still would probably come down to personal testimony. The usual disclaimer applies: I'm no lawyer. I'm just trying to think of counter-arguments, both those reasonable in abstract and those that seem to fit within the spirit of the complaint against IBM. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 11 months

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IBM doesn't intend to respond to SCO's threat

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030606S0039 Linux-Unix ties spelled out By Charles J. Murray EE Times June 6, 2003 (5:08 p.m. ET) PARK RIDGE, Ill. � SCO Group revealed the foundation of its legal battle with the Linux community, when it rolled out evidence of large blocks of Linux code that it contends were stolen from Unix. Analysts who saw the samples of the allegedly stolen code said the evidence is damaging and that SCO Group has a formidable legal case. �If everything SCO showed me today is true, then the Linux community should be very concerned,� said Bill Claybrook, research director for Linux and open-source software at the Aberdeen Group (Boston). If SCO (Lindon, Utah) prevails in its legal efforts, many observers believe the action could, at best, result in hundreds of multimillion-dollar licensing payments from Fortune 1000 companies and, at worst, damage the foundation of open-source software. The revelations by the SCO Group Wednesday (June 4) followed a turbulent week in which the company exchanged both allegations and counterallegations with Linux supporters and with Novell Inc. (Provo, Utah), which has proclaimed in an open letter that SCO doesn't own the copyrights and patents to Unix, the operating system Novell sold to SCO in 1995. SCO's revelations also served as a response to the Linux community, which has complained over the past two months that it doubted SCO's contentions of theft because the company had not publicly disclosed evidence to support its claims. Claybrook and another analyst who had been given an opportunity to see examples of the alleged theft said the blocks of Unix and Linux were strikingly similar. The two blocks of software, they said, contained as many as 80 lines of identical code, along with identical developers' comments. �One could argue that developers could write exact or very similar code, but the developers' comments in the code are basically your DNA, or fingerprints, for a particular piece of source code,� said Laura DiDio, a senior analyst with the Yankee Group (Boston), who viewed the evidence. �It's very unlikely that code and comments could be identical by pure chance,� Claybrook said. DiDio and Claybrook said they were given side-by-side copies of Unix and Linux code to compare. Neither was paid for the work, and both agreed that the evidence suggests SCO has a strong case in its $1 billion suit against IBM Corp. and in its scrap with the Linux community. Linux supporters, however, were quick to question the meaning of the evidence. �Can SCO prove that this code came from SCO to Linux, and not from Linux to SCO?� asked Jon �Maddog� Hall, executive director of Linux International (Nashua, N.H.), a Linux advocacy organization. �Or did the code that's in SCO Unix come from a third source? Show me the facts,� he said. SCO's battle with the open-source community grabbed headlines two months ago when it filed a $1 billion lawsuit in the state court of Utah against IBM, alleging misappropriation of trade secrets and unfair competition in the Linux market. In May, on the heels of that suit, SCO sent letters to Fortune 1,000 companies and 500 other businesses advising them to seek legal counsel if they use Linux. SCO's actions angered Linux supporters, who allegedly deluged the company with angry e-mails, threatened drive-by shootings, and posted SCO's executives' home phone numbers and addresses on Web sites. On May 28, Novell jumped into the fray, arguing that it never sold the Unix copyrights or patents to SCO when it consummated the Unix sale in 1995. In an open letter to SCO, Novell said, �Apparently you share this view, since over the last few months you have repeatedly asked Novell to transfer the copyrights to SCO, requests Novell has rejected.� Novell assailed In a subsequent news conference on May 30, SCO chief executive officer Darl McBride lashed out at Novell, restating SCO's claim that it owns the Unix operating system patents and implying that Novell has a hidden agenda for insisting otherwise. �We strongly disagree with Novell's position and view it as a desperate measure to curry favor with the Linux community,� McBride said. Last week's analyst revelations, however, cast the battle in a new light. Until the analysts weighed in, Linux backers had relied on the defense that no one had seen proof of the allegations. Most said they didn't understand why SCO had refused to release the alleged infringements for public scrutiny. Some said they viewed SCO's actions as a means to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt about open-source software. But analysts categorically disagreed with that viewpoint last week. �SCO is not trying to destroy Linux,� said DiDio of the Yankee Group. �That's silly. This is about paying royalties.� SCO contends that by co-opting code from Unix, Linux has severely damaged SCO's intellectual property. According to some estimates, the company collected annual revenue of between $200 million and $250 million on Unix System 5 (sic) software before the rise of Linux. After Linux reached the mainstream, those revenue figures dropped to about $60 million a year. Because it believes Linux incorporates code that's been �stolen� from Unix, it has warned hundreds of companies to stop using Linux or start paying royalties. �SCO's words were that Linux distributors and others who are using Linux are 'distributing stolen goods,' � said Claybrook of Aberdeen Group. Some companies, such as Sun Microsystems Inc., already pay hefty royalties to SCO for Unix. Two weeks ago, Microsoft Corp. joined that group when it agreed to pay royalties that were said to be �significantly in excess of $10 million,� one source said. Microsoft declined to comment on the details. Facing a choice Many observers believe SCO's case is bolstered by the fact that it is represented by high-powered attorney David Boies, who prosecuted the Microsoft antitrust case and represented Al Gore in the 2000 presidential election vote-counting scandal. Analysts said IBM will be the first company to face a choice in the legal matter. �If IBM wants to cure this problem, they could start by buying all the appropriate licenses and then paying SCO a billion dollars,� Claybrook said. �But SCO now says that a billion may not be enough to cover their damages.� Users of Linux also face a decision about whether to ignore SCO's letters or pay for a license. Analysts said companies may face that decision as soon as June 13, the date on which SCO has threatened to terminate its existing Unix contracts with IBM. Intellectual-property attorneys advise that companies that received a letter from SCO first determine whether IBM is indemnifying them, as users, against legal action. IBM, for its part, has said it doesn't intend to respond to SCO's threat. �We believe our contact is perpetual and irrevocable,� an IBM spokeswoman said. �We've already paid for it, and there is nothing else we need to do.� Whether the legal actions will harm Linux in the long run is still open to question, experts said. The Linux community, unconvinced by SCO's actions, says it is still waiting for more solid proof that SCO really has a case. Most say that showing the alleged violations to a few analysts who sign nondisclosure agreements isn't enough. �We still don't see the need for secrecy,� said Hall of Linux International. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] SCO vs. IBM: NOVELL steps up to the plate

by Aharon Robbins

What I find fascinating (and that no-one has mentioned yet) is how anyone can claim that Unix internals are still trade secret, especially given this book: The Design of the UNIX Operating System, Maurice J. Bach. Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, USA, 1986. ISBN 0-13-201799-7. There's also these: The Magic Garden Explained: The Internals of Unix System V Release 4: An Open Systems Design, Berny Goodheart, James Cox, John R. Mashey. Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, USA, 1994. ISBN 0-13-098138-9. Unix Internals: The New Frontiers, Uresh Vahalia. Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, USA, 1996. ISBN 0-13-101908-2. According to Amazon.com, a new edition is scheduled for 2005. The Bach book, in particular, is a rather large smoking gun that AT&T didn't care a huge amount about trade secrets. The book is still in print (and selling for a whopping $69.97 on Amazon.com!) It doesn't contain actual source code, but let's get real here... Arnold

21 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] SCO vs. IBM: NOVELL steps up to the plate

by Aharon Robbins

> add on the lion book Yes, that's been officially published, as well as in N-th generation photo copies. But the books I cited are for System V, including SVR4, which is much more relevant for the issue under discussion... Pfui. What a mess this whole business is. Arnold

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