On Friday, 21 January 2000 at 16:44:34 +0000, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> * rdkeys wrote:
>> On a surplus junket, today, I ran across a 2 dollar chassis that was
>> listed as a Masscomp 5400 (54S-01) computer. It looked rather like
>> a DECish based thing with dual height cards, like some sort of laboratory
>> digital aquisition machine. On the long-shot that it is some sort of
>> PDP-11ish thing, anyone have any recollection or pointers to any info
>> on that kind of a Masscomp machine?
>
> Masscomps were 68k based machines, they had a whole bunch of stuff for
> real-time and data-acquistion type stuff. They ran something called
> RTU -- real-time Unix -- which was a weirdo sysv / BSD hybrid, not fun
> to use. If the 5400 is the machine I remember it's a 68020 machine
> but it may have a lot of cards for other stuff in. If it *is* the
> machine we had it was deeply unreliable. Masscomp got bought by
> someone else later on but I forget who, so they sometimes get badged
> as some other make.
>
> I would run away, fast.
On the other hand, IIRC this was the machine which was the basis for
the Egan/Teixeira (sp?) book on writing UNIX drivers. It might be
amusing for that reason alone. If it's functional and you have the
space, you probably won't regret the $2 you spend for it.
Greg
--
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
On a surplus junket, today, I ran across a 2 dollar chassis that was
listed as a Masscomp 5400 (54S-01) computer. It looked rather like
a DECish based thing with dual height cards, like some sort of laboratory
digital aquisition machine. On the long-shot that it is some sort of
PDP-11ish thing, anyone have any recollection or pointers to any info
on that kind of a Masscomp machine?
Thanks
Bob
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>From Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)cley.com> Sat Jan 22 02:44:34 2000
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Subject: Re: Anyone know what a Masscomp 5400 (54S-01) is?
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* rdkeys wrote:
> On a surplus junket, today, I ran across a 2 dollar chassis that was
> listed as a Masscomp 5400 (54S-01) computer. It looked rather like
> a DECish based thing with dual height cards, like some sort of laboratory
> digital aquisition machine. On the long-shot that it is some sort of
> PDP-11ish thing, anyone have any recollection or pointers to any info
> on that kind of a Masscomp machine?
Masscomps were 68k based machines, they had a whole bunch of stuff for
real-time and data-acquistion type stuff. They ran something called
RTU -- real-time Unix -- which was a weirdo sysv / BSD hybrid, not fun
to use. If the 5400 is the machine I remember it's a 68020 machine
but it may have a lot of cards for other stuff in. If it *is* the
machine we had it was deeply unreliable. Masscomp got bought by
someone else later on but I forget who, so they sometimes get badged
as some other make.
I would run away, fast.
--tim
In article by emanuel stiebler:
> Hi,
> Anybody here, who made some benchmarks of the different simulators (supnik,
> apout, ...)
>
> What I'm looking for is something like:
> supnik version xxx on pentium 2 350 MHz using linux, is xxx times faster
> than a 11/73.
>
> cheers & thanks,
> emanuel
Here's my no-numbers-just-gut-feelings of the various PDP-11 emulators.
John Wilson's Ersatz is probably the fastest; it's written in assembly
code, and so gains a fair bit that way.
Second would be the Begemot emulator. They've unrolled the instruction
decode loop heavily, and that helps a lot.
Bob Supnik's emulator would be the slowest of the three. However, it's
still not that slow, may 1/3 the speed of Ersatz.
Apout can't be compared to the above 3 emulators, because it doesn't emulate
peripherals nor supervisor mode. User-mode instructions run at about the
same speed as Supnik's emulator, but system calls are done by native code.
The sole benchmark I have is: FreeBSD identifies my desktop box as
Pentium II/Xeon/Celeron (348.93-MHz 686-class CPU). Using Apout, I can
compile the 2.11BSD GENERIC kernel in 4 minutes 15 seconds.
I'll try building Supnik and Begemot and getting comparative results.
Last comment: all the simulators have strengths & shortcomings, and that
applies not just to ease of use but also to CPU, I/O performance etc. You
really have to try them all & find the one that suits you.
Warren
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>From "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org> Fri Jan 21 12:45:24 2000
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From: "Joerg B. Micheel" <joerg(a)begemot.org>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
Cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>, joerg(a)begemot.org,
"Hartmut B. Brandt" <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>
Subject: Re: Emulators
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Organization: Begemot Computer Associates
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On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:16:40PM +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by emanuel stiebler:
> > Hi,
> > Anybody here, who made some benchmarks of the different simulators (supnik,
> > apout, ...)
> >
> > What I'm looking for is something like:
> > supnik version xxx on pentium 2 350 MHz using linux, is xxx times faster
> > than a 11/73.
Us too! :-)
The problem is that it doesn't scale that simple. Each and every
instruction has the parsing overhead. Next comes execution overhead.
You'll find that the parsing is pretty constant, no matter whether
it is a NOP or some sophisticated MUL command. The execution speed
varies heavily, very often it is alot faster than the original
hardware. IO has seen a tremendous speedup, we can benefit here
from todays hardware alot. Just remeber how long it took to get
a prompt or echo when hitting the keyboard. As a result, the
original feeling of the real machine is lost, very unfortunate.
As a rough summary, simple commands do not improve (much), whereas
everything complex speeds up with the emulator. Harti has done quite
a bit of testing on different instructions and compared them to an
LSI11/73 (KDJ11A). The emulator was run on a i486 at the time. Have
a look at the p11 distribution, it should be in Tests somewhere.
Regards,
Joerg
--
Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)begemot.org>
Begemot Computer Associates Phone: +64 7 8562148
40 Masters Avenue, Hillcrest Fax: +64 7 8562148
Hamilton, New Zealand Pager: +64 868 38222
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Hi all,
Several new things have arrived in the PUPS Archive, so I thought
I'd pass on details of what and where.
Tim Shoppa has found & recovered the tapes from the following Usenix
conferences: 1983, 1987, 1988 and 1989. Their contents are now in
Applications/Shoppa_Tapes in the archive.
Dennis Ritchie has sent in two DECtape images, s1-bits and s2-bits.
s2-bits dates from 1972, and contains several 1st Edition binaries and
the binaries of an early C compiler. s1-bits is part of a disk image,
but I've been able to recover some of its contents: some application
source in both assembly and C. It seems to date from early 1973. Both
tapes are in Distributions/research/1972_stuff in the archive.
By using the C compiler binaries on s2-bits, I've been able to recompile
the two primeval C compilers whose source is in Applications/Early_C_Compilers
and which are described by Dennis on his web page at
http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/primevalC.html
Most recently, Dennis has also unearthed the on-line manual pages for
3rd and 4th Edition UNIX. They are in Distributions/research/Dennis_v3
and Distributions/research/Dennis_v3, respectively.
It still looks like all kernel code before 5th Edition is gone, except
for the nsys kernel code in Distributions/research/Dennis_v3 and a few bits
on paper that Dennis has.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From "A. P. Garcia" <apg(a)execpc.com> Fri Jan 21 03:25:39 2000
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> Several new things have arrived in the PUPS Archive, so I thought
> I'd pass on details of what and where.
Could someone please burn a new snapshot of the archive for me? I'm happy
to compensate you, of course.
Thanks,
Phil Garcia
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Please do not trash me on this one! I think that 4000 series µVAX is just a little more than I need. Would anyone care to swap this puppy for a table-top PDP-8 or PDP-11 of any sort? I have a working machine & keyboard; it wants your basic RGB with or without sync (i.e. sync on green). Whaddadya think? Happy new year! --JCR
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 07:52:53PM -0500, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> As the possibly only member of this list who still makes a living writing
> MACRO-11 code, I'm gonna take two shots at this:
I believe the SEP RELAG-3 system (www.sep.de) is based on LSI-11, not sure
it is written in assembler, though. Perhaps Torsten could tell ...
Joerg
--
Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)begemot.org>
Begemot Computer Associates Phone: +64 7 8562148
40 Masters Avenue, Hillcrest Fax: +64 7 8562148
Hamilton, New Zealand Pager: +64 868 38222
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>From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Tue Jan 18 15:17:43 2000
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From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>
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To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: macro-11 for V7-Unix
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> From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Fri Jan 14 17:09 PST 2000
> Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:52:53 -0500
> From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
> To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
> Subject: Re: macro-11 for V7-Unix
>
> >In article by Prof. Karl Kleine:
> >> once upon a time, it was around 1981, I used a pdp11/45 with V7
> >> (I started my life with Unix with V6 in 1977/8), doing some research
> >> in compilers, portability, dense code schemes for interpreters.
> >> For that I used a port of DEC MACRO-11 to Unix. There was also
> >>...
> >> I have the Supnik emulator to play with, and I wonder if this
> >> macro-11 and linker is still somewhere around. I would love to
> >> prepare a few examples for my lessons here (I'm a professor in
>
> >Hi Karl, I think this came up on Usenet recently. No I don't know
> >of a port of Macro-11 to Unix. I'll pass this on to our mailing list,
> >just in case anybody knows of it.
>
> As the possibly only member of this list who still makes a living writing
> MACRO-11 code, I'm gonna take two shots at this:
>
> One possibility is the "as11" assembler from Xinu. It's a fairly portable
> PDP-11 assembler, but doesn't have all the real macro facilities of
> real Macro-11. You can find this at
>
> http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/xinu/un…
>
> The other (and more likely) possibility is the "m11" macro package from
> Harvard, which *does* come with a linker ("l11") as Karl described. The
> full distribution is in the 2.11BSD source tree, at "/usr/src/new/m11".
>
> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Let me toss in another possibility. Around that time (late 70's -
early 80's) we (Marine Physical Lab) were running an RT-11 emulator on
a couple of our PDP-11 Unix systems. Product of Human Computing
Resources, as I remember. Once you can emulate RT-11, you can run all
of its CUSPs: assembler, linker, Fortran, what have you. Assuming, of
course, that you have appropriate licenses etc.
We did it to get a reasonably capable Fortran compiler with our Unix.
carl
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
{decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu
clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu
In article by Prof. Karl Kleine:
>
> Dear Warren,
>
> once upon a time, it was around 1981, I used a pdp11/45 with V7
> (I started my life with Unix with V6 in 1977/8), doing some research
> in compilers, portability, dense code schemes for interpreters.
> For that I used a port of DEC MACRO-11 to Unix. There was also
> an associated linker and the package offered also Fortran, though
> I didnt't use the latter. As far as I remember, this port was
> done at Harvard and distributed to some academic sites. I was
> at the University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands, at that time.
>
> I have the Supnik emulator to play with, and I wonder if this
> macro-11 and linker is still somewhere around. I would love to
> prepare a few examples for my lessons here (I'm a professor in
> computer science these days, at the University of Applied Sciences
> here in Jena).
>
> Any ideas? Might there be copies in yours archive? I would like
> to know before I go through the motions of getting teh SCO source
> licence and all that...
>
> Thanks for your help!
> Karl Kleine
Hi Karl, I think this came up on Usenet recently. No I don't know
of a port of Macro-11 to Unix. I'll pass this on to our mailing list,
just in case anybody knows of it.
Cheers,
Warren
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>In article by Prof. Karl Kleine:
>> once upon a time, it was around 1981, I used a pdp11/45 with V7
>> (I started my life with Unix with V6 in 1977/8), doing some research
>> in compilers, portability, dense code schemes for interpreters.
>> For that I used a port of DEC MACRO-11 to Unix. There was also
>>...
>> I have the Supnik emulator to play with, and I wonder if this
>> macro-11 and linker is still somewhere around. I would love to
>> prepare a few examples for my lessons here (I'm a professor in
>Hi Karl, I think this came up on Usenet recently. No I don't know
>of a port of Macro-11 to Unix. I'll pass this on to our mailing list,
>just in case anybody knows of it.
As the possibly only member of this list who still makes a living writing
MACRO-11 code, I'm gonna take two shots at this:
One possibility is the "as11" assembler from Xinu. It's a fairly portable
PDP-11 assembler, but doesn't have all the real macro facilities of
real Macro-11. You can find this at
http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/xinu/un…
The other (and more likely) possibility is the "m11" macro package from
Harvard, which *does* come with a linker ("l11") as Karl described. The
full distribution is in the 2.11BSD source tree, at "/usr/src/new/m11".
Here's the man page - look at the "NOTES" section near the bottom for
the history.
M11(1) M11(1)
NAME
m11 - Macro-11 assembler for UNIX
SYNOPSIS
m11 [ option1 option2 ... ] file1 file2 ... filen
DESCRIPTION
M11 assembles the concatenation of the specified files
(file1, etc.) and terminates when an ``.end'' statement
is encountered. The resulting object file is usually
named filen.obj (see below). If a file argument, filei
does not contain a ``.'' in its name, the file filei.m11
will be sought before filei itself.
Options, if desired, may appear anywhere in the command,
and are chosen from the following list. All options are
interpreted before any files are read.
-ls Produce an assembly listing and place in filen.lst
-lt Produce an assembly listing on the standard output.
-fl If coupled with the -ls or -lt directives, makes
the listing have a shortened format. It is short<AD>
hand for -nl:seq:loc:bin:bex:me:meb:ttm:toc:sym.
-uc Simulate an initial .dsabl lc directive. Force all
characters in macro definitions to be upper case.
This flag makes lower-case handling in m11 compat<AD>
able with the DEC Macro-11 assemblers.
-um Force all characters in macro definitions to be
upper case. This flag makes lower-case handling in
this release of m11 compatable with previous ver<AD>
sions of m11.
-de Make all option choices needed to make assembly
mimic DEC Macro-11. Implies (inter alia) the -uc
flag. This includes the Johns Hopkins asm assem<AD>
bler.
-ha Make all option choices needed to make assembly
mimic earlier (Harvard) releases of m11. This
implies the -um flag. Default .psect and .csect
attributes are set up in the funny Harvard way.
-mx Produce a listing of the source program as it
appears after macro expansion. Macro calls, condi<AD>
tional directives and so on appear in the listing
as comments. Listing appears on standard output.
No machine code is generated or listed. This
option is meant to correspond to the -E or -P
options of the C compiler cc(1).
-my Like -mx, except that macro calls and conditional
directives do not show up in the listing.
-10 Generate an error whenever op codes not in the
PDP-11 ``standard instruction set'' are encoun<AD>
tered. Programmers writing for a PDP 11/10 can
catch instructions illegal for that machine by
using this argument.
-dp:args
The default attributes for a .psect or unnamed
.csect are redefined, using the colon-separated
list args of valid .psect attributes.
-da:args
The default attributes for an .asect are redefined.
-dp:c The default attributes for a named .csect are rede<AD>
fined.
-li:arglist
Simulate an initial .list arglist directive. All
.list and .nlist directives in the program text
which attempt to change the settings established
with the -li flag will be ignored.
-nl:arglist
Like -li:arglist, but for the .nlist directive.
-en:arglist
Similarly, for the .enabl directive.
-ds:arglist
Similarly, but for the .dsabl directive.
-cr:arglist
Produces a cross-reference listing. If the -ls
option is also included, the cross-reference list<AD>
ing will follow the assembly listing in filen.lst.
References which are tagged with the symbol # are
definitions. References tagged with * are destuc<AD>
tive references: the value of the symbol or vari<AD>
able in question is changed. Arglist consists of
colon-separated keywords from the following set.
The keywords may be prefix abbreviated:
sym All user-defined symbols are indexed.
mac All macro names are indexed.
per All uses of permanent symbols - op codes,
directives, etc - are indexed.
pse All psect names are indexed. For compata<AD>
bility with the RT-11 CREF program, the
argument cse is synonymous with pse.
err All errors are indexed.
reg All register uses are indexed.
If no arglist is specified the default sym:mac:err
is used. In the listing page and line numbers for
uses of symbols are followed by a # sign if the
symbol is defined and by a * sign if the symbol is
modified.
-lp Same as -ls, but also spools filen.lst for printing
upon completion.
-no No object file is produced. This is useful for
syntax checking or list producing.
-xs:n Allots nK words of extra space for symbol table and
macro storage. NOTE: This option is currently
inoperative: m11 automatically allots core for its
tables as needed.
-xx Debug flag: generate all kinds of wierd hack flack.
-ns No symbol table is included in the object file
(thus ddt knows of no symbols from this assembly).
-sx Make the symbol table contain ``local symbols'' as
well as ordinary symbols.
-u Treat form feed characters as spaces. This will
make m11's idea of line numbers coincide with the
UNIX text editors. Macro-11 statements containing
imbedded form feed characters will be parsed dif<AD>
ferently when the -u flag is in effect.
-na:file
Override the convention of using last name as file
name. Instead, use names file.obj and file.lst for
object and listing files.
NOTES
This implementation of Macro-11 is a distant hand-me down
from an old DEC Macro-11 modified at Harvard University in
the early 1970's. It is grubby with smudges by Brent
Byer, F. J. Howard, Bob Bowering, and Jim Reeds. It does
not implement keyword arguments such as are described in
section 7.3.6 of the DEC manual. The .enabl abs option
does not work. Listing control is by default .list ttm.
Unlike earlier editions of m11 at UCB and at Harvard, it
does treat immediate constants of floating point opera<AD>
tions correctly: see the last paragraph of section 6.4.2
on the middle of page 6-27 of the DEC manual. M11 has
several directives not described in the DEC manual. See
the New UCB M11 Manual. The default attributes for
.psects are different from those described in the DEC man<AD>
ual, but may be changed by the -dp flag. The .enabl glb
feature is implemented: undefined symbols are taken as
undefined global externals.
FILES
/usr/share/misc/sysmac.smlsystem macro library (for .mcall
directive)
filen.xrf intermediate cross-reference temporary
file
lpr(1) spooler
/usr/ucb/macxrf cross-reference post-processor
SEE ALSO
PDP-11 MACRO-11 Language Reference Manual , Digital Equip<AD>
ment Corp. Order No. AA-5075A-TC, August 1977.
New UCB M11 Manual , notional document by Jim Reeds.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
I just wrote:
> [...]
> --
> Michael Sokolov 2695 VILLA CREEK DR STE 240
> Software Engineer DALLAS TX 75234-7329 USA
> JP Systems, Inc. Phone: +1-972-484-5432 x247
> or +1-888-665-2460 x247
> E-mail: msokolov(a)meson.jpsystems.com Fax: +1-972-484-4154
Argh! Used the wrong sig file again! Here is the right one:
--
Michael Sokolov Harhan Computer Operation Facility
Special Agent 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY #4
International Free Computing Task Force DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA
Phone: +1-214-824-7693
ARPA INET: msokolov(a)meson.jpsystems.com
I guess I'll keep bumping into this one until I set up separate mail addresses
for my two affiliations and subscribe to all lists from the right one... Sorry
about that.
John Rosenberg <jcrosenberg(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> Recently I came into posession of a MicroVAX 4000 series machine at an
> auction, and the question now is: What do I do with the darned thing?
The right answer for you is the Quasijarus project. See its WWW page at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/
The project has a mailing list to which I have already subscribed you. To post
to the list, send to quasijarus(a)meson.jpsystems.com. If anyone else wants to
subscribe, drop a line to quasijarus-request(a)meson.jpsystems.com.
--
Michael Sokolov 2695 VILLA CREEK DR STE 240
Software Engineer DALLAS TX 75234-7329 USA
JP Systems, Inc. Phone: +1-972-484-5432 x247
or +1-888-665-2460 x247
E-mail: msokolov(a)meson.jpsystems.com Fax: +1-972-484-4154
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On a recent expedition, I recovered some additional USENIX tapes:
Usenix 83
Usenix 87
Usenix 88
Usenix 89
Now, none of these are as "classic" as the current Usenix tapes in the
PUPS archive (by my searching, Usenix 77, 78, 79, 80, and 81.) Is
there perhaps some other on-line archive out there that would be
interested in copies of these tapes? My E-mails to various addresses
on www.usenix.org so far have left me with the impression that they
have no library of material older than 1993 and they have no interest
in older material, though I strongly suspect that I'm talking with all
the wrong people.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From "John Rosenberg" <jcrosenberg(a)earthlink.net> Thu Jan 13 02:03:04 2000
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Message-ID: <003f01bf5d16$a0ccc020$c469fea9@home>
From: "John Rosenberg" <jcrosenberg(a)earthlink.net>
To: <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, "Unix Heritage Society" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
References: <200001100540.QAA64928(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: New member
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:03:04 -0500
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Kind greetings, all. I am a new member of the Society, and have been
delighted with the messages I have seen.
Recently I came into posession of a MicroVAX 4000 series machine at an
auction, and the question now is: What do I do with the darned thing? It was
really a bargain I could not pass up; and I'm pretty sure that it is in
entirely usable condition. (I still have to fully test it.)
Suggesetions? I have no Web site to run, even if I did want to spend the
money on the required infrastructure & maintenance.
Much obliged in advance, and again, I am more than happy to have joined the
Society.
John Rosenberg
33 Pond Ave. #601
Brookline, MA 02445
617-277-7868
jcrosenberg(a)earthlink.net (generally preferred)
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