I'm adding PDP-11 support to GNU binutils, and I need help on
classifying the instruction set.
I'm somewhat confused, because:
PDP-11 FAQ says:
11/45 introduced MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
Later, 11/40 introduced SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT. MUL, DIV, etc in
EIS option.
GCC pdp11.md and pdp11.c says:
11/40 and 11/45 has SOB, SXT, XOR.
11/45 has ASHC, MUL, DIV.
All models has ASH.
John Holden writes:
11/40 and 11/45 has EIS and FPU instructions.
11/40 had several options to add EIS, FIS and a MMU.
Does this mean that an unexpanded 11/40 has no EIS instructions,
but with the EIS option, it has more instructions than an 11/45?
GCC seems to think that all PDP-11 models has ASH, but this seems
wrong. It's only in EIS, right?
So far, this is the classification I've come up with:
BASIC: the basic instruction set.
CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).
EIS45: 11/45 extended instruction set: MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
EIS40: 11/40 extended instruction set: EIS45 + SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT.
FIS: FADD, FSUB, FMUL, and FDIV (opcodes 0x7a00..0x7bff).
FPU: LDF, STF, LDCFF', STCFF', CMPF, LDEXP, STEXP, LDCIF, STCFI, MULF,
MODF, ADDF, SUBF, and DIVF (opcodes 0xf000..0xffff).
Would this be correct?
FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
found any documentation. Does anyone know more about those? Why
is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?
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Subject: Re: Good news on the Ancient UNIX License front
In-Reply-To: <20000508150240.A7092(a)loomcom.com> from sjm at "May 8, 2000 3: 2:40 pm"
To: sethm(a)loomcom.com (sjm)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:47:01 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by sjm:
> Hello all,
>
> I've just received this mail from SCO. I think it's appropriate to
> post here.
>
> Apparently we can expect the Ancient UNIX License available on the
> SCO website by Friday (U.S. Pacific Time, I would suspect). Very
> good news indeed!
I'm just back from a training course. I've seen a preview of the web site.
You get to click-thru the license agreement, then you have a set of hyperlinks
to the UNIX versions that SCO owns (5e, 6e, 7e, 32V, SysIII, Mini UNIX).
I'm still trying to work out an access method to the PUPS Archive with them,
but I think we're getting there.
So, you will get access to some UNIX source code soon, but access to the
PUPS Archive might be a week or so longer.
Cheers all!
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed May 10 10:27:22 2000
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Subject: Re: PDP land
In-Reply-To: <20000505191242.A13087(a)ussenterprise.ufp.org> from Leo Bicknell at "May 5, 2000 7:12:42 pm"
To: bicknell(a)ufp.org (Leo Bicknell)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:27:22 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by Leo Bicknell:
> I don't know if you remember me or not. I believe we talked
> before when I was a student at Virginia Tech about Unix on a PDP-11/40
> that I had. Alas, I had to let those machines go as I didn't have
> the time or space to keep them.
>
> I went looking for PDP stuff on the web, and ran across your
> name again. I thought I'd give you a whirl. I'm now in a position to
> give real data center space to one or more of these beasts, and I would
> love to put a PDP-11 up on the net running old-school unix.
>
> Any pointers as to where to find someone giving away or
> selling one of these beasts?
>
> Thanks.
> Leo Bicknell - bicknell(a)ufp.org
Leo, I'm punting this on to the PUPS mailing list to see if you get any
nibbles. Go to http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/maillist.html to see
how to join. You could also try the Usenet newsgroups alt.sys.pdp11 and
vmsnet.pdp-11.
Cheers,
Warren
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Hello all,
I've just received this mail from SCO. I think it's appropriate to
post here.
Apparently we can expect the Ancient UNIX License available on the
SCO website by Friday (U.S. Pacific Time, I would suspect). Very
good news indeed!
Included message follows:
>To: sethm(a)loomcom.com
>From: Paul Kaspian <paulka(a)sco.COM>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Seth,
>
>Sorry for the late reply. We are in the process of adding Ancient UNIX to our
>web site now that the $100 fee is waived. This should be up on the site by May
>12th. It will be located at www.sco.com/offers. Please let me know if you have
>any questions.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Paul Kasipan
>Marketing Manager
>SCO
>
>
>At 10:25 AM 4/26/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:58:24 -0700
>>From: sjm <sethm(a)loomcom.com>
>>To: toms(a)sco.com
>>Subject: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license
>>X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1us
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I read your recent press release regarding SCO's new open source
>>initiatives with some interest. Specifically, I'm curious what your
>>plans are regarding the "Ancient" UNIX license which SCO previously
>>charged $100 for. Do you know when the new free license will be
>>available?
>>
>>Thank you for your help,
>>
>>-Seth Morabito
>> sethm(a)loomcom.com
--
"As a general rule, the man in the habit of murdering | Seth Morabito
bookbinders, though he performs a distinct service | sethm(a)loomcom.com
to society, only wastes his own time and takes no |
personal advantage." -- Kenneth Grahame (1898) | Perth ==> *
When was the "mv" command first updated to do a copy/remove for regular
files being moved across filesystems?
-brian.
--- Brian Chase | bdc(a)world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 27 12:23:11 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004270223.MAA11845(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: History of Unix mv.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0004261906390.6381-100000(a)world.std.com> from Brian Chase at "Apr 26, 2000 7:10:18 pm"
To: bdc(a)world.std.com (Brian Chase)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:23:11 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Brian Chase:
> When was the "mv" command first updated to do a copy/remove for regular
> files being moved across filesystems?
> -brian.
V2 mv(1) manual says files can't be moved across filesystems. V3 mv(1)
manual doesn't say either way. V4 mv(1) manual says the file will be
copied and the original deleted. V5 mv(1) source code exec's cp(1) when
the destination is on a different filesystem.
Warren
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>From Brian Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> Thu Apr 27 16:19:43 2000
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:19:43 -0700
From: Brian Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: History of Unix mv.
In-Reply-To: <200004270223.MAA11845(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
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On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Brian Chase:
> > When was the "mv" command first updated to do a copy/remove for regular
> > files being moved across filesystems?
> > -brian.
>
> V2 mv(1) manual says files can't be moved across filesystems. V3 mv(1)
> manual doesn't say either way. V4 mv(1) manual says the file will be
> copied and the original deleted. V5 mv(1) source code exec's cp(1) when
> the destination is on a different filesystem.
So wait. I need some clarification here. When you say V2, V3, V4, etc..
do you mean 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed, 4th Ed Unix?
-brian.
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 27 16:22:42 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004270622.QAA13320(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: History of Unix mv.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0004262316570.10764-100000(a)world.std.com> from Brian Chase at "Apr 26, 2000 11:19:43 pm"
To: bdc(a)world.std.com (Brian Chase)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:22:42 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by Brian Chase:
> > V2 mv(1) manual says files can't be moved across filesystems. V3 mv(1)
> > manual doesn't say either way. V4 mv(1) manual says the file will be
> > copied and the original deleted. V5 mv(1) source code exec's cp(1) when
> > the destination is on a different filesystem.
>
> So wait. I need some clarification here. When you say V2, V3, V4, etc..
> do you mean 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed, 4th Ed Unix?
> -brian.
Yup, 2nd Edition == 2e == V2.
1st Edition November 3, 1971
2nd Edition June 12, 1972
3rd Edition February, 1973
4th Edition November, 1973
5th Edition June, 1974
6th Edition May, 1975
7th Edition January, 1979
8th Edition February, 1985
9th Edition September, 1986
10th Edition October, 1989
Cheers,
Warren
If you're planning to buy an AU licence, now isn't the time :-)
Greg
----- Forwarded message from atrn(a)zeta.org.au -----
> Delivered-To: freebsd-chat(a)freebsd.org
> Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:45:17 +1000 (EST)
>
> On 19 Apr, I wrote:
>> SCO has made the cscope sources available under the BSD license.
>> There's a press release at,
>>
>> http://www.sco.com/press/releases/2000/6927.html
>
> And further down the press release they state,
>
> Additionally, SCO has simplified its "Ancient" UNIX program and waived the
> $100 processing fee. Anyone will be able to log onto the SCO web site and
> download historically preserved UNIX code for educational and non-
> commercial use.
>
> (Note future tense "will be able to", it's not there yet).
>
> This essentially halves the cost of getting the CSRG CD's from Kirk
> McKusick.
>
> --
> Andy Newman
----- End forwarded message -----
--
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
[ This from a SCO press release ]
SCO Contributes to the Open Source Community; Kicks Off Open Source Initiatives
Company to Release Key Technologies, Source Code, and Resources for
Software Developers; "Ancient" UNIX Source Code Available for Free
[ ... ]
Additionally, SCO has simplified its "Ancient" UNIX program and waived the
$100 processing fee. Anyone will be able to log onto the SCO web site and
download historically preserved UNIX code for educational and
non-commercial use.
___________________
Tom Fox-Sellers
Public Relations Specialist, Linux & Open Source
Tel: 831-427-7049
Email: mailto:toms@sco.com
Press: http://www.sco.com/press
___________________
Side note: you still have to have a license, it's just free to obtain now.
I won't be able to make things available anonymously still.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 20 09:46:49 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004192346.JAA63622(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: SCO Ancient UNIX license now free
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.03.10004191642250.26245-100000(a)andru.sonoma.edu> from Andru Luvisi at "Apr 19, 2000 4:43: 1 pm"
To: luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu (Andru Luvisi)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:46:49 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by Andru Luvisi:
> Could I trouble you for the URL on SCO's site? I can find the press
> release, but the license eludes me.
Actually, the URL SCO used to use, http://www.sco.com/offers/, doesn't
have the license anymore. So I assume they are rearranging their site.
Here are some excepts from my SCO contact as to what they _might_ do:
What we basically want to do is:
1) Waive the $100 fee for the source code.
2) Make our portion of the source (by separating it from DEC's etc.
etc.) available from our web site, while still leaving it available on
yours. We would still like to refer people to you if they would like
other source code or would like to purchase a CD
3) Make the license agreement available online with a click through in
order to eliminate the paperwork. (We would probably just e-mail you the
people who have agreed to the license for your records)
We will however require that people "click through" our
site (or possibly yours) to gain access to your FTP site and media
distribution. We will consider any person that accepts the license
agreement from our site a "license holder".
I'm currently working on an automatic mechanism which would allow a person
to click-agree to the on-line SCO license (whenever that occurs), which
would give them access to the UNIX source code via SCO's web site, and
also password-protected access to the PUPS Archive here.
*** Note the Archive contains stuff that SCO doesn't own, e.g Ultrix,
the BSD releases, but which still require a UNIX source license.
For all those who haven't bought an Ancient UNIX license from SCO, if
you can I would hang off from ordering one until the web mechanism
arrives. It will save you and SCO the time & delay of processing paperwork.
If you _really_ require a license, and are prepared to wait 6 weeks,
then go to http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/getlicense.html to get a
copy of the license. Post it to SCO, but don't send any money!!
Hope this helps,
Warren
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Thu Apr 20 11:09:04 2000
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Side note: you still have to have a license, it's just free to obtain now.
I don't suppose they'll offer a refund? :-)
--
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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Subject: Re: SCO Ancient UNIX license now free
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To: dave(a)horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:29:23 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by Dave Horsfall:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> > Side note: you still have to have a license, it's just free to obtain now.
>
> I don't suppose they'll offer a refund? :-)
Consider yourself a well-paid member of the Unix Freedom Fighters :-)
Warren
Hi all,
It's time to call again for volunteers to help out with the
distribution of the PUPS Archive. In particular, if you have received
a CD of the archive within the last 9 months, and you can duplicate it,
then please let me know if you are willing to distribute a few CDs a month.
We have a need for people in Asia, Japan, Australia, South America, but
I'll take anybody anywhere!
Many thanks in advance for your offers.
Cheers,
Warren
Warren is right that even the First Edition manual says that init
mounts /usr, implying that /usr was a distinct file system even that
early. It seems to me that the original question Greg forwarded
from the NetBSD list was also after when /usr/bin appeared, which
isn't necessarily the same date.
A possible answer from old manuals:
- Second Edition sh(I) (dated 3/15/72):
If the first argument is the name of an executable file,
it is invoked; otherwise the string "/bin/" is prepended
to the argument. (In this way the standard commands,
which reside in "/bin", are found.) If the "/bin" file
exists, but is not executable, it is used by the shell
as a command file.
- Third Edition sh(I) (dated 1/15/73):
If the first argument is the name of an executable file,
it is invoked; otherwise the string "/bin/" is prepended
to the argument. (In this way most standard commands,
which reside in "/bin", are found.) If no such command
is found, the string "/usr" is further prepended (to give
"/usr/bin/command") and another attempt is made to execute
the resulting file. (Certain "overflow" commands live in
"/usr/bin".) If the "/usr/bin" file exists, but is not
executable, it is used by the shell as a command file.
Notice the odd detail that non-executable files in /bin (early on)
or /usr/bin (later) get special treatment. Does this mean that
shell scripts that weren't in /usr/bin had to be invoked explicitly
via `sh script' instead of just `script'?
Even deeper historic trivia: it occurred to me to check the fragments
of the PDP-7 system I have on paper to see whether /usr existed then.
I was quickly reminded that it almost certainly didn't because subdirectories
weren't really used then; there were no pathnames in that system.
(You could open only files in the working directory, though you could
link from another directory.) When asked to invoke `x', the shell first
tried to open `x', then to link `x' from directory `system' and open the
result. (Presumably it remembered to remove the needless link after the
open, but I'm not quite certain; the old paper copy is missing a few
lines just there.) So even the name `bin' doesn't date back quite to
the beginning.
Norman Wilson
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Apr 18 10:10:41 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004180010.KAA42226(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Early file system layouts
In-Reply-To: <200004172217.IAA38973(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> from "norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca" at "Apr 16, 2000 2:43:14 pm"
To:
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:10:41 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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In article by norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca:
> - Second Edition sh(I) (dated 3/15/72):
> If the first argument is the name of an executable file,
> it is invoked; otherwise the string "/bin/" is prepended
> to the argument. (In this way the standard commands,
> which reside in "/bin", are found.) If the "/bin" file
> exists, but is not executable, it is used by the shell
> as a command file.
> Notice the odd detail that non-executable files in /bin (early on)
> or /usr/bin (later) get special treatment. Does this mean that
> shell scripts that weren't in /usr/bin had to be invoked explicitly
> via `sh script' instead of just `script'?
Can't tell, we don't have the source code. In the Nsys kernel (dated
just before the 4th Edition), files must have the execute bit on or
they can't be exec(2)d.
Warren
I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 on
Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems
corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block
error messages, etc.
Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image?
If this is the wrong place for this kind of question, or if
there's a FAQ on this, then please point me in the right
direction.
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 08:33:16 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d
In-Reply-To: <85ln2jsewz.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> from lars brinkhoff at "Apr 12, 2000 2: 5:16 pm"
To: lars(a)nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:33:16 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by lars brinkhoff:
> I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 [from the PUPS
> Archive] on Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems
> corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block
> error messages, etc.
>
> Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image?
Hmm, if I get a chance I'll try it here. Has anybody used this image
successfully?
Warren
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Apr 13 13:22:56 2000
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <200004130322.UAA16968(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: lars(a)nocrew.org, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d
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Hi --
> From: lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org>
> I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 on
> Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems
> corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block error messages,
> etc.
>
> Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image?
Yes. The problem is not with the images (although the whole "on rl02"
is a pain - you're far better off using the "xp" or large disk support
that Bob added).
> If this is the wrong place for this kind of question, or if
> there's a FAQ on this, then please point me in the right direction.
This is a very good place to ask this type of question.
And now the moment you've been waiting for: "the Answer" ;)
2.11BSD is *very* upset at having to run in 256kb of memory. since
the kernel plus buffer cache (and other data structures) can easily
exceed 200kb there is not enough memory left over to run a program.
Programs such as 'fsck' are fairly large split I/D programs and won't
fit in the remaining ~56kb or so.
The quick fix to the problem is adding the line:
set cpu 2048K
to the config file before running the simulator. That will give the
simulated PDP-11 2Mb of memory which is a real nice size. Oh, if
memory is a concern on the system then "set cpu 1024K" will work
well. Since there's no networking involved 1Mb will be quite adequate.
If you were using "P11" (the Begemot emulator) and had the full IP/TCP
stack, etc then the kernel+networking+buffers can reach close to 400Kb
and you might want to use 2Mb for the memory size.
You might also look into the latest version (2.5) of the Begemot
emulator. The two key advantages of P11 are: 1) a emulated DEQNA so
you can place the PDP11 on a network, 2) It keeps _good_ time
(version 2.4 and earlier had severe timeskew when running compute
bound programs, 2.5 is awesomely better and within range of "ntp"
to keep the clock correct). P11 also supports (as does Bob Supnik's
simulator) large disks such as the RP06 which is much nicer than
4 RL02s and a batch of RK05s.
Hmmm, I'm not sure which rev level of 2.11BSD is in the "on_rl02"
images - I hope it has the "bounce buffer support" to handle the 18bit
RK controller on a 22bit bus... If the RK images show corrupt or the
kernel crashes then I would suspect the kernel is a bit too old.
Unpack the "211bsd_on_rl02" images from the .gz images, edit the
"script" file to increase the system memory and you should be all
set to go.
Steven
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu Apr 13 14:56:23 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:26:23 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: UNIX Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Early file system layouts (was: Splitting / and /usr)
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Saw this on a NetBSD list.
Greg
----- Forwarded message from "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org> -----
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
> To: kre(a)munnari.oz.au
> Cc: current-users(a)netbsd.org
> Precedence: list
> Delivered-To: current-users(a)netbsd.org
>
> Robert,
>
> [Off topic warning]
>
>>> Did you not know that /usr was split off only because the disks were too
>>> small to keep everything on one way back in the early days
>>
>> That's how I heard it too - but this split must have occurred way back
>> very early in the days before anyone outside Bell Labs had ever heard of
>> unix (as I remember it, even the CACM paper had /usr in it).
>
> I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed
> at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around
> 1978, if my memory serves me well. As the first copy of V5 and V6
> came out of the labs in the 1975/1976 timeframe, I suspect it came
> later. I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't
> check dates.
>
> Whilst I attented the University there at that time, I didn't attend
> the conference - more fool me.
>
> I suspect that Alistair Kilgour or Zdravko Podolski could provide
> more information, or any of the Bell Labs alumni who were there.
>
> agc
----- End forwarded message -----
----- Forwarded message from Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU> -----
> To: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org>
> Cc: current-users(a)netbsd.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:15 +1000
> Precedence: list
> Delivered-To: current-users(a)netbsd.org
>
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org>
> Message-ID: <200004120831.BAA06860(a)nbftp.isc.org>
>
>> [Off topic warning]
>
> Ditto - but recording history sometimes has its uses...
>
>> I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed
>> at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around
>> 1978,
>
> It was definitely done before that.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't find a 5th edition manual (or even a reprinted
> facsimilie thereof at the minute), but the 6th edition manual for sh(1)
> says ...
>
> If the first argument [ on a command line ] is the name of an
> executable file, it is invoked; otherwise the string `/bin' is
> prepended to the argument. (In this way most standard commands,
> which reside in `/bin', are found.) If no such command is found,
> the string `/usr' is further prepended (to give `/usr/bin/command')
> and another attempt is made to execute the resulting file. (Certain
> lesser-used commands live in `/usr/bin'.)
>
> The sixth edition manual is dated May 75, but the date on the sh man page
> is 5/15/74 (which I interpret as the 15th of May, 1974).
>
> For those who are new to unix (within the last 20 years) note that there
> was no notion of a user settable path...
>
>> I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't
>> check dates.
>
> I have checked now, and it says nothing either way, so that is no help.
> Kernighan's "Unix for Beginners" (of a generally similar vintage) gives
> a diagrammatic view of the filesystem tree, in which all that exists in
> /usr are user directories, though that is not really conclusive.
>
>> I suspect that Alistair Kilgour or Zdravko Podolski could provide
>> more information, or any of the Bell Labs alumni who were there.
>
> I will see if Dennis will tell me...
>
> kre
>
----- End forwarded message -----
----- Forwarded message from Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU> -----
> To: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org>, current-users(a)netbsd.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:45:05 +1000
> Precedence: list
> Delivered-To: current-users(a)netbsd.org
>
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:15 +1000
> From: Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU>
> Message-ID: <353.955586175(a)munnari.OZ.AU>
>
>> I will see if Dennis will tell me...
>
> He did, ...
>
> But early; definitely by the time of the "nsys" system, the
> first C version, which was 1973.
>
> And ...
>
> The point of /usr/bin was really to find a place to put
> those binaries. (The .5MB disk was pretty cramped even
> with with two of them, as we later had).
>
> which (if we ever needed it) is confirmation or the original reason...
>
> kre
>
----- End forwarded message -----
--
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 15:32:02 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004130532.PAA08492(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split)
In-Reply-To: <20000413142623.A45386(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Apr 13, 2000 2:26:23 pm"
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:32:02 +1000 (EST)
Cc: current-users(a)netbsd.org
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[ This came to me from a NetBSD mailing list, via Greg Lehey ]
Someone said.....
> >>> Did you not know that /usr was split off only because the disks were too
> >>> small to keep everything on one way back in the early days
Someone else said....
> > I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed
> > at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around
> > 1978, if my memory serves me well. As the first copy of V5 and V6
> > came out of the labs in the 1975/1976 timeframe, I suspect it came
> > later. I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't
> > check dates.
The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the
July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''.
Here is the evidence:
At http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/Images/ken-and-den.txt and
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/Images/ken-and-den.jpg
you will find a picture of Ken and Dennis at the PDP-11/20 around 1972.
The commentary in the text file from John Holden tell us that the disk
drives are RF-11 and RK03 drives.
RF-11 drives were fixed head drives with 512K of storage with fast access.
RK03s and RK05s could store 2M, but were not as fast as RF-11s.
The source code to (nearly) 3rd Edition UNIX, dated August 31, 1973, only
has drivers for two disks, RF-11s and RK05s. This source code is in the
PUPS Archive, http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS. You need a Unix src license.
Now, the July 1974 CACM paper says this:
In our installation, for example, the root directory resides
on the fixed-head disk, and the large disk drive, which contains
user's files, is mounted by the system initialization program; ....
To me, this strongly indicates that / and /usr were split by at least
July 1974, if not the earlier date of August 1973.
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 15:50:17 2000
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004130550.PAA08605(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split)
In-Reply-To: <200004130532.PAA08492(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Apr 13, 2000 3:32: 2 pm"
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:50:17 +1000 (EST)
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In article by Warren Toomey:
> The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the
> July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''.
I just found some more evidence. The 2nd Edition UNIX manual is dated
June 1972, but the actual man pages have their date of last modification.
The manual for init(7), dated 15th June 1972, says:
[ If console switches are set to 173030, a shell is attached to the
console immediately, i.e single-user mode ]
Otherwise, init does some housekeeping: the mode of each DECtape
file is changed to [read-write] (in case the system crashed during
a tap command); directory /usr is mounted on the RK0 disk; directory
/sys is mounted on the RK1 disk.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 15:59:06 2000
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Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split)
In-Reply-To: <200004130550.PAA08605(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Apr 13, 2000 3:50:17 pm"
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:59:06 +1000 (EST)
Cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au, grog(a)lemis.com, current-users(a)netbsd.org
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In article by Warren Toomey:
> In article by Warren Toomey:
> > The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the
> > July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''.
>
> I just found some more evidence.
And more, from the 1st Edition init(7) man page dated 3rd November, 1971.
Directory usr is assigned via sys mount as resident on the RK disk.
and sys mount means the mount(2) system call.
Cheers,
Warren
Hi all,
I'd just like to welcome the new people to the PUPS list. This
is probably the first e-mail in the list for a few weeks. I've been pretty
busy at work, but there is some interesting news on the old UNIX front.
+ SCO has now sold over 220 old Unix licenses, and I have something like
120 license holders with access to the on-line PUPS Archive. We've lost
count of the number of CDs produced by the PUPS Volunteers (thanks guys!)
+ I've got some Y2K patches for Unix coming in from Alexey Chupahin in
Russia. Once I get them sorted out, they will be put into the archive.
+ The baton of old Unix at SCO has been passed from Dion Johnson to David
Eyes and now to Paul Kaspian, their Open Source Marketing Manager. There
will be some changes to the Ancient UNIX license. If you haven't bought
a license, I would recommend NOT sending in any money just yet.
This will be good news, but I'm waiting on SCO to announce the details.
I'll keep you all informed as usual.
Cheers,
Warren
P.S the Minix operating system has been released under a BSD license. Anybody
want to port it to the PDP-11 family?
Someone is offering me an 11/23 with (I think) 2 small disks
(RL-something) which are meant to bbe 10Mb each (maybe 5?)
Can someone tell me what Unices this will run? It has no media other
than the disks (it has, I think, RT-11), but I've read about people
getting stuff into things down a serial line -- how practical is that?
Thanks
--tim
