All,
I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
Cheers,
Warren
In atricle by Dion:
>
> SCO owns the licensing rights all versions of the UNIX system, or
> so our legal folks tell me. Now, of course there are many
> derivative, licensed versions, and some of the holders of those
> licenses have rights to sublicense. In the case of BSD
> enhancements, the Berkeley additions are owned by the Regents of
> the University of California, and I believe the UCB license terms
> are well known.
>
> As for your friends who have rescued ancient PDP machines... I
> am confident that SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
> on these antiques without any payment to us. I cant quite
> officially give that permission myself, but I can speculate that
> SCO certainly would not mind.
>
> So go for it. Does this help?
> -Dion
>Dion L. Johnson II - The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. dionj(a)sco.com
>SCO Product Manager - Development Systems and Various Other Stuff
>400 Encinal St. Santa Cruz, CA 95061 FAX: 408-427-5417 Voice: 408-427-7565
Dion, thanks very much for your email, in fact I'm ecstatic! I know this
could be a tricky legal minefield, so if possible could SCO draft a letter
(and run it past their lawyers) which sets out exactly what you said above.
In particular, you said that ``SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
on these antiques without any payment to us''. Does this mean I can legally
distribute the source code to the PDP versions of UNIX, and to anybody? or
just to people who own PDP-11s. There are PDP-11 emulators available, so
it is conceivable that people who don't even have a real PDP-11 might like
to try UNIX out on these emulators. If to anybody, then I assume this means
the source is legally owned by SCO but freely distributable?
I really appreciate your offer of making these old versions of UNIX
available, but given the legal status of the code to this point, I would
like to cover myself with an officially blessed and signed document from SCO.
Let me know what you can do, and many many thanks again for this!
Cheers,
Warren
In atricle by Jacob Ritorto:
> Warren,
> I have three 600' 9-track 800bpi tapes marked (in pen) UNIX V6
> 4000 blocks. One Source, one Object, one Documentation. I've tried
> using ROLLIN to restore them, but it expects a filename, which I can't
> find. I did do an RT11 dump of the first few blocks of the tapes, which
> revealed an ascii 'd' as the first byte, then a series of decending
> bytes. It didn't look like a file structure or a filename. All the
> tapes had the same first block. I tried to boot the tapes directly on an
> 11/34. No luck. I tried to DIR them from rt11, but, of course, rt
> couldn't find any directory info. There's definately unix stuff on the
> tapes--I saw it in the RT11 device dump. Dates in some of the source
> files are around 1974 or 1976, if I recall correctly.
> What do I need to do to get these tapes back onto disk and
> running? I'm assuming they restore to RK05 disks because the labels say
> 4000 blocks. I have 4 rk05 drives and lots of packs. BTW, the tape
> drive I'm using is a TU10 with standard address and vector.
> Your help would be greatly appreciated.
> Jacob Ritorto
Jacob, I'm passing this onto a bunch of PDP Unix people, as I don't have
the hardware & RT11 experience to tell you how to install v6 from the
tapes. Yes, the 3 tapes are RK05 pack images, I have on-line copies here
if that can be of any help to you. Can you raw dump the tapes to RK05s
using RT11?
Can anybody help Jacob out here? We also have v7, 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD here.
What hardware do you have?
Best of luck,
Warren Toomey
The recent 11/23 discussion got me wondering if anybody has seen an 11/73
running UNIX - I've got one with 3M RAM, and an RD52(?) (32M winchester...)
-Pete, who has changed his address to pwargo(a)basenji.com (my own domain!)
-Pete "I *still* want a vacation", Chandra "I love it here", Keegan "SUN!"
and Spritzer "Let's go for *another* walk!"
Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA
pwargo(a)basenji.com (a free system)
>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Mon Apr 8 00:30:04 1996
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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 15:30:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <199604071430.PAA00403(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo(a)basenji.com
Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX?
Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need
more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s
RObin
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Mon Apr 8 03:41:58 1996
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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199604071741.KAA04105(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo(a)basenji.com,
robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX?
> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
>
> Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need
> more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s
Got two. A HP3724S 1.2GB SCSI drive works just fine <grin>
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
Forwarded message:
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:40:12 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <9603202323.AA23006@dolphin> from "Warren Toomey" at Mar 21, 96 09:23:49 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
>
>In atricle by Bob Manners:
>>
>> Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
>> need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
>> obviously needs to support the RD51.
>>
>> Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does?
>
>v7 doesn't support RDs (just looked thru the archive), and I don't know
>of anything that does. You'd probably have to write your own device driver :-(
I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
isn't in the archive ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forwarded message:
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:43:47 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <199603202239.OAA28894(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Mar 20, 96 02:39:32 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
What about Digital's MV7 (or whatever it was called). This is
mentioned in the 11/23+ owners' manual as supported. Thus it must run
on the 11/23+ and support RD series disks. It is basically Bell Labs
version 7 I think.
> Warren's correct. MSCP support did not enter the 'BSD' picture until
> late 2.9BSD or early 2.10BSD. TMSCP support for tapes didn't come
> about until early 2.11BSD when I "borrowed" the driver from 4.3BSD
> (who had earlier borrowed it from Ultrix).
OK. I guess 2.x BSD (x>=9) requires separate I+D space? That would
rule out the 11/23+ I think.
> It should be noted that the MSCP (and to a greater degree TMSCP)
> is a *pig* - it's the largest driver in the system, rivaling the
> TTY subsystem sizewise.
Yes. I can believe that. Looks like writing my own driver would be no
fun at all!
> An 11/23 is already extremely cramped for address space even using
> simpler/smaller drivers such as the RK, RL, etc. I seriously doubt
> the MSCP driver could be smashed in to a 11/23 kernel and leave room
> for too much else.
The 11/23+ has plenty of address space (22 bit), but mine only has 128Kw ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Fri Mar 22 02:31:20 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:31:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199603211631.IAA19050(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)
Robert -
> I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
> the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
> isn't in the archive ...
True - Ultrix-11 (what MV7 was called later on) does have MSCP
support in it. I've not looked at how they handle the rather
prodigious data space requirements (~2kb per controller) yet.
Cheers.
Steven
Having met with storming success (thanks Warren) in getting UNIX v6
and v7 up and running on my 11/34, and having recently (well
yesterday) acquired an 11/23+, I'd like to put UNIX on the latter.
Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
obviously needs to support the RD51.
In the case of the 11/34 I built a UNIX image under a PDP-11 emulator
and KERMITed it to the 11/34. I plan to do the same in this case ...
Any suggestions welcome. Does v7 support RD series drives? If not,
what does?
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In atricle by Milo Velimirovic:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm still alive and well. Thanks for hte note.
>
> I have precious little time to spend with my pdp11's. I'm still looking for
> a legal Unix to run on either my 11/34 or 11/44. In the meantime I make do
> with a NeXT cube.
>
> If possible please make your paper publicly available.
You can now get it at http://minnie/Seminars :-)
I'm still working on licences.
Warren
Hi all,
I thought I'd mail to the old unix list to see if you were all
still alive & hope the new year goes well for you. It's been a quiet few
months. I've not heard back from Keith Bostic about his archive. However,
I'm presenting a paper about PDP Unixes at the local Australian Unix Users
Group summer conference next week, should be fun.
Cheers,
Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Greetings:
I've been playing with the mail system. Mailing to root brings up
can't find usr/lonex/xmail
This in itself is not a problem, as I only tried this to see what would
happen. However, I am curious as to what the lonex directory is (was).
It does not appear in my listing of the contents of tape 2.
Cheers!
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Tue Dec 19 13:59:39 1995
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Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 19:59:39 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199512190359.TAA04159(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, sysyphus(a)crl.com
Subject: Re: What is lonex?
Hi -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
> Subject: What is lonex?
LONEX _was_ "Laboratory Office Network EXperiment" - a project
I worked on for many years (we started with V7) and which just ended
a couple or three years ago. We used 11/44s and 70s right up till
the end - by which point they were all running 2.11BSD. It was a
really neat system - had a common user namespace (YP before there was
YP;-)) amoungst all systems, a (for the time) spiffy text-mode menuing
interface to shield users from the fact it was Unix and so on.
> I've been playing with the mail system. Mailing to root brings up
> can't find usr/lonex/xmail
The sendmail.cf as distributed in the 'GENERIC' system kit wasn't
cleaned up enough. That reference to a local mailer that I use
should have been removed.
Several things to note:
1) the sendmail.fc file does not exist - on purpose. You'll need to
perform step 2 and then do a "/usr/lib/sendmail -bz" to freeze
(pre-process for faster loading) the config file.
2) the sendmail.cf file is not suitable for use without customizing
(filling in the domain name, relay system, etc).
3) The aliases database (/usr/lib/aliases.{dir,pag}) are not present,
on purpose. You'll want to edit /usr/lib/aliases to suit local
tastes and then do "/usr/lib/sendmail -bi" to create the dbm
aliases database.
> This in itself is not a problem, as I only tried this to see what would
> happen. However, I am curious as to what the lonex directory is (was).
It's a directory I keep local works of art such as the local mailer
'xmail' which knew the details about routing mail within the "Office
Network" we ran.
> It does not appear in my listing of the contents of tape 2.
It shouldn't have been there at all.
You should have something like:
# Mlocal, P=/bin/mail, F=rlsDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=mail -d $u
Mlocal, P=/usr/lonex/bin/xmail, F=lsSDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=xmail -f $g $u
in sendmail.cf. Simply reverse the commented status of the two
lines to be:
Mlocal, P=/bin/mail, F=rlsDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=mail -d $u
# Mlocal, P=/usr/lonex/bin/xmail, F=lsSDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=xmail -f $g $u
And you'll be all set.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
I just thought I'd share a few more of my experiences with you in the
hope that they may help someone out....
Over the weekend, I finally succeeded in ftping Tapes/Torsten/v7.gz -
version 7 as an RL02 image. (International ftp to the UK is terrible
at present!).
I have no RL02, so I booted the image on Bob Supnic's pdp11 emulator,
built a kernel to support both RL and RK05 drives and set about
transferring the vital parts of the system to an RK05 image, with the
kernel source, games and other non-essentials going to a second
image. The two RK05 images are pretty full!
I built kernels for the 11/40 (m40.o) and 11/34 (smch.o), to support
just the RK05, and added a second DL-11 as previously discussed on
this list.
Kermiting the root image to an RK05 on my 11/34 was no trouble. My
11/34 will booth the m40.o image just fine, but the smch.o image
caused much disk activity, but no console output. Version 7 thus can
be persuaded to work on an 11/34a, with a single RK05. The second DL11
is recognised and works as expected. Version 7 seems significantly
slower than version 6, when multi-user mode is entered.
Thus, I think I'd recommend version 6 for a small system ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
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