30 Oct
2017
30 Oct
'17
2:16 p.m.
From: Ralph Corderoy
Then the real definition, ending in an execution of
the empty `q'.
qq/4$^Ma2^[@qq
Gah. That reminds me of nothing so much as TECO (may it long Rest in Peace).
Noel
30 Oct
30 Oct
2:40 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
Or line noise from the acoustic coupler :-)
From: Ralph
Corderoy
Then the real definition, ending in an execution
of the empty `q'.
qq/4$^Ma2^[@qq
Gah. That reminds me of nothing so much as TECO (may it long Rest in
Peace).
3:23 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Aw, I loved TECO - so much so that I wrote a version for every platform
I used after that until I got into consulting for various different
companies that used UNIX's of various flavors.
At some point in that transition, I learned vi. Now I wouldn't do
without it.
The only detrimental thing about TECO to me, was that it was used to
start off EMACS. ;)
On 10/30/2017 10:16 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
From: Ralph
Corderoy
Then the real definition, ending in an execution
of the empty `q'.
qq/4$^Ma2^[@qq
Gah. That reminds me of nothing so much as TECO (may it long Rest in Peace).
Noel
8:56 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who remembers TECO; a fun game was to
type your name at it to see what it did.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
Then the real
definition, ending in an execution of the empty `q'.
qq/4$^Ma2^[@qq
Gah. That reminds me of nothing so much as TECO (may it long Rest in
Peace). 
9:50 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
I've started using it again; at least until I can get vi running under
Multics.
-- Charles
From: Ralph
Corderoy
Then the real definition, ending in an execution
of the empty `q'.
qq/4$^Ma2^[@qq
Gah. That reminds me of nothing so much as TECO (may it long Rest in
Peace).
31 Oct
31 Oct
10:50 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
. make love
NOT WAR?
[4K CORE]
I’m a bizarre UNIX relic. I never learned vi. I went from “ed” to the various emacs
variants (starting with Warren Montgomery’s EMACS, then JOVE and UNIPRESS, and later GNU).
I used INed (a commercialization of the Rand editor) but didn’t particularly like that
either. My coworkers for years would be amused when if I found the machine had no EMACS
variant, I’d just use ed. I could be startlingly fast in ed and you do learn regular
expressions well if you have to do a lot of editing that way. On a few machines where
I’m confronted with VI and no ed/emacs, I just use VI in “ex” mode.
On Oct 30, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Dave Horsfall
<dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017, Noel Chiappa wrote:
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who remembers TECO; a fun game was to type
your name at it to see what it did.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
Then the
real definition, ending in an execution of the empty `q'.
qq/4$^Ma2^[@qq
Gah. That reminds me of nothing so much as TECO (may it long Rest in Peace). 
4:43 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 30 Oct 2017, at 21:56, Dave Horsfall
<dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who remembers TECO; a fun game was to type
your name at it to see what it did.
A great game to play while traveling is to interpret what license plates do in TECO.
-Don
1 Nov
1 Nov
3:23 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Tue, 31 Oct 2017, Ronald Natalie wrote:
I’m a bizarre UNIX relic. I never learned vi. I went
from “ed” to the
various emacs variants (starting with Warren Montgomery’s EMACS, then
JOVE and UNIPRESS, and later GNU). I used INed (a commercialization of
the Rand editor) but didn't particularly like that either. My coworkers
for years would be amused when if I found the machine had no EMACS
variant, I’d just use ed. I could be startlingly fast in ed and you do
learn regular expressions well if you have to do a lot of editing that
way. On a few machines where I’m confronted with VI and no ed/emacs, I
just use VI in “ex” mode.
A previous boss insisted that all his support staff learn ED, because one
day it might be the only editor available on a trashed box (you can't
mount /usr etc).
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
1:25 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 1 Nov 2017, at 03:23, Dave Horsfall
<dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
A previous boss insisted that all his support staff learn ED, because one day it might be
the only editor available on a trashed box (you can't mount /usr etc).
That's happened to me relatively recently (I know ed just well enough to get machines
out of that state).
Of course nowadays you can't rely on the thing called 'ed' being
'ed': I know someone who lives in ed but can't run it on some machines
because it relies on something in /var somewhere being writable, which it isn't.
I've always thought that the *whole point* of ed was that it did not rely on vast
tracts of the system actually being there, still less beng functional. This person now
has to edit things with cat (which, in some future release, will probably start assuming
that there's a configured ipv6 interface or something, because why would that ever
not be true?).
--tim
2:05 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Hi Ronald,
On a few machines where I’m confronted with VI and no
ed/emacs, I just
use VI in “ex” mode.
One thing I miss with vim(1) is the lack of open mode, the half-way
house between ex and vi modes. I still use ed daily when I know the
edit I want to do and have the context to work by, e.g. output from
previous commands, on the screen, that I don't want removed by a
full-screen editor. But sometimes it would be nice to be able to `f(c%'
rather than always have to regexp the edit and vi's open mode would give
me that.
I've idly considered an ed that also maintained a cursor within the line
that could be used with vi-like commands.
--
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy
4:42 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Ralph Corderoy <ralph(a)inputplus.co.uk> wrote:
I've idly considered an ed that also maintained a
cursor within the line
that could be used with vi-like commands.
Are we not Hackers? Can we not code as we wish?!?
-- Somebody, I forget who
But seriously, you want an ed with a cursor, you need only take
GNU ed and hook it up with GNU readline, and there you go. If
GNU ed doesn't already have such support. Absolutely no need to
reinvent either wheel.
My two cents,
Arnold
5:17 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Hi Arnold,
That would allow me to edit the command I'm entering, e.g. `,n'. What
I'm suggesting is the command I'm entering can manipulate the in-line
cursor when I press Enter to submit the command. I don't want
interactive editing of lines in the file; I know where to find that.
:-)
I've idly
considered an ed that also maintained a cursor within the
line that could be used with vi-like commands.
you want an ed with a cursor, you need only take GNU ed and hook it up
with GNU readline, and there you go. If GNU ed doesn't already have such support.
ed 1.14.2-1 here hasn't. And I wouldn't expect its dependencies to
grow.
$ ldd /bin/ed
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007fff215d4000)
libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc.so.6 (0x00007fd89767a000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 => /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
(0x00007fd897a31000)
$
--
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy
6:03 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Since `ed` is line-based, one could presumably use it with `rlwrap` or
something like that.
On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 1:17 PM, Ralph Corderoy <ralph(a)inputplus.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Arnold,
That would allow me to edit the command I'm entering, e.g. `,n'. What
I'm suggesting is the command I'm entering can manipulate the in-line
cursor when I press Enter to submit the command. I don't want
interactive editing of lines in the file; I know where to find that.
:-)
I've
idly considered an ed that also maintained a cursor within the
line that could be used with vi-like commands.
you want an ed with a cursor, you need only take GNU ed and hook it up
with GNU readline, and there you go. If GNU ed doesn't already have such support.
ed 1.14.2-1 here hasn't. And I wouldn't expect its dependencies to
grow.
$ ldd /bin/ed
linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007fff215d4000)
libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc.so.6 (0x00007fd89767a000)
/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 => /usr/lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2
(0x00007fd897a31000)
$
--
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy
6:06 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Ralph Corderoy <ralph(a)inputplus.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Arnold,
That would allow me to edit the command I'm entering, e.g. `,n'. What
I'm suggesting is the command I'm entering can manipulate the in-line
cursor when I press Enter to submit the command. I don't want
interactive editing of lines in the file; I know where to find that.
:-)
I don't think I understand what you're getting at. It's been decades,
I think, since I last saw / used open mode, which is what I thought
you wanted, so I think I'm confused.
Oh well,
Arnold
I've
idly considered an ed that also maintained a cursor within the
line that could be used with vi-like commands.
you want an ed with a cursor, you need only take GNU ed and hook it up
with GNU readline, and there you go. 
8:16 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Nov 1, 2017, at 11:06 AM, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
Ralph Corderoy <ralph(a)inputplus.co.uk> wrote:
I think what Ralph wants is something like "LINES=1 vi"
but without clearing the screen so that commands that
are cursor relative can work. rlwrap and readline don't
edit the current line in the file, only the command input.
Hi Arnold,
That would allow me to edit the command I'm entering, e.g. `,n'. What
I'm suggesting is the command I'm entering can manipulate the in-line
cursor when I press Enter to submit the command. I don't want
interactive editing of lines in the file; I know where to find that.
:-)
I don't think I understand what you're getting at. It's been decades,
I think, since I last saw / used open mode, which is what I thought
you wanted, so I think I'm confused. I've
idly considered an ed that also maintained a cursor within the
line that could be used with vi-like commands.
you want an ed with a cursor, you need only take GNU ed and hook it up
with GNU readline, and there you go.
8:37 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Bakul Shah <bakul(a)bitblocks.com> wrote:
I think what Ralph wants is something like
"LINES=1 vi"
but without clearing the screen so that commands that
are cursor relative can work. rlwrap and readline don't
edit the current line in the file, only the command input.
OK, that I can understand. It's ages since I played with
readline, but I think you can preload the buffer it works on
(bash does that, no?) so ed + readline could be made to work
that way.
At least, I think so.
I already have too many side projects on my plate, or I'd try it. :-)
Thanks,
Arnold
9:04 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 14:37:42 -0600 arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
arnold(a)skeeve.com writes:
Bakul Shah <bakul(a)bitblocks.com> wrote:
Editing that way seem is bass ackwards -- probably more code
would needed to interface with readline than just implementing
it in ed. As a one line version requires just line movement
commands, there is no reason why you can't use full power of
vi through a narrow window - such as d} to delete to the end
of para and have the next line dispayed. Readline wouldn't
help there. And readline weighs in @ 28K LOC to ed's 3.5K (on
plan9 it is under 1.6K).
I think what Ralph wants is something like
"LINES=1 vi"
but without clearing the screen so that commands that
are cursor relative can work. rlwrap and readline don't
edit the current line in the file, only the command input.
OK, that I can understand. It's ages since I played with
readline, but I think you can preload the buffer it works on
(bash does that, no?) so ed + readline could be made to work
that way. I already have too many side projects on my plate, or
I'd try it. :-)
Ditto!
2 Nov
2 Nov
12:05 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 11/1/17 4:37 PM, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
Bakul Shah <bakul(a)bitblocks.com> wrote:
Yes, you can set a startup hook to preload the buffer contents. Bash
uses that for `read -ei'.
--
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU chet(a)case.edu http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/
I think what Ralph wants is something like
"LINES=1 vi"
but without clearing the screen so that commands that
are cursor relative can work. rlwrap and readline don't
edit the current line in the file, only the command input.
OK, that I can understand. It's ages since I played with
readline, but I think you can preload the buffer it works on
(bash does that, no?) so ed + readline could be made to work
that way.
12:10 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Hi Arnold,
I don't think I understand what you're
getting at. It's been decades,
I think, since I last saw / used open mode, which is what I thought
you wanted, so I think I'm confused.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I miss open mode as vim doesn't have it, and
I'd sometimes find it useful.
Separately, I use ed regularly, and have though about its `compose a
command, submit it', model being extended to commands that act upon a
cursor that's within the line, just as `.' is the line within the file.
I don't mean readline editing of the command, nor of the current line in
the file. More what one might see on the RHS of `:map Q ...', but in
the style of ed.
--
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy
5:48 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 10/30/17, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who remembers TECO; a fun game was to
type your name at it to see what it did.
Stan Rabinowitz once asked a question in DEC's Trivia NOTES
conference: "What do these two-character sequences have in common?"
There followed four sets of two special characters. The answer was
that those were the only two-character sequences that were NOT valid
TECO commands.
-Paul W.
15 Nov
15 Nov
1:25 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
A previous boss insisted that all his support staff
learn ED, because one
day it might be the only editor available on a trashed box (you can't
mount /usr etc).
ed man; man ed
https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html (Sorry -- could not resist)
N.
2:10 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org>
wrote:
For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't really
appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto option anymore (v6). After
reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell in love with it. g/re/p?
Who'd of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual', but the entire document is
editable and its support of regex and the global command are incredibly
powerful. Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor. Finally, ed is
the sibling of sed and once I got the connection there, it opened up a
whole new world of editing awesomeness.
Will
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
A previous boss insisted that all his support
staff learn ED, because one
day it might be the only editor available on a trashed box (you can't
mount /usr etc).
ed man; man ed
https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html (Sorry -- could not resist)
N. 
2:16 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
+1. Anyone who gets this is someone I'd work with.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 08:10:41PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall
<dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't really
appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto option anymore (v6). After
reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell in love with it. g/re/p? Who'd
of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual', but the entire document is editable and
its support of regex and the global command are incredibly powerful.
Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor. Finally, ed is the sibling of
sed and once I got the connection there, it opened up a whole new world of
editing awesomeness.
Will
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF A previous boss insisted that all his support
staff learn ED, because one
day it might be the only editor available on a trashed box (you can't
mount /usr etc).
ed man; man ed
https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html (Sorry -- could not resist)
N. 
2:37 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
It took me a while to realize that ed(1) is what TECO should have been....
Too much TECO trauma scared me away for far too long.... But maybe it was
all the TECO macros I wrote to make the BH100 terminal useful as an editor
in full screen mode....
Warner
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
+1. Anyone who gets this is someone I'd work
with.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 08:10:41PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't really
appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto option anymore (v6). After
reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell in love with it. g/re/p?
Who'd
On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
>On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
>>A previous boss insisted that all his support staff learn ED, because
one
day it might be the only editor available on a trashed
box (you can't
mount /usr etc).
ed man; man ed
https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html (Sorry -- could not resist)
N. of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual',
but the entire document is editable
and
its support of regex and the global command are
incredibly powerful.
Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor. Finally, ed is the sibling
of
sed and once I got the connection there, it
opened up a whole new world
of
editing awesomeness.
Will
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
3:07 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
I wasn't going to say it earlier, but now that you've said something
about it... I was thinking, thank god, ed isn't teco! :).
On 11/14/17 8:37 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
It took me a while to realize that ed(1) is what TECO
should have
been.... Too much TECO trauma scared me away for far too long.... But
maybe it was all the TECO macros I wrote to make the BH100 terminal
useful as an editor in full screen mode....
Warner
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com
<mailto:lm@mcvoy.com>> wrote:
+1. Anyone who gets this is someone I'd work with.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 08:10:41PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
After
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
>On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org
<mailto:dave@horsfall.org>> wrote:
>>A previous boss insisted that all his
support staff learn ED,
because one
>>day it might be the only editor available
on a trashed box
(you can't
>>mount /usr etc).
>ed man; man ed
>
>https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
<https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html> (Sorry -- could not
resist)
N.
For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't really
appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto option anymore (v6). reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell
in love with it.
g/re/p? Who'd
of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual',
but the entire document is
editable and
its support of regex and the global command are
incredibly powerful.
Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor. Finally, ed is the
sibling of
sed and once I got the connection there, it
opened up a whole
new world of
editing awesomeness.
Will
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com <http://mcvoy.com>
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
9:58 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Wednesday, November 15, 2017, Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
It took me a while to realize that ed(1) is what TECO
should have been....
Too much TECO trauma scared me away for far too long.... But maybe it was
all the TECO macros I wrote to make the BH100 terminal useful as an editor
in full screen mode....
TECO (and therefore Emacs) and ed(1) represent two completely opposite
views on software development and IT in general. The one is
fanatical about minimalism and 'less is more' approach, while the other
stands for 'more is more'.
That is why MIT and Bell Labs represented two very different cultures. In
the history of computing I have not found any other group of computer
scientists that so deeply emphasized minimalism and 'less is more' approach.
This group produced the original UNIX and C, Plan 9, and Go programming
language. Everything else in the Unix camp including BSD, Linux or GNU was
never about minimalism as its main goals, although one can argue that in
the early years Linux kernel was small and minimal.
--Andy
11:42 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Will Senn wrote:
Finally, ed is the sibling of sed
Parent. :-)
Something I learned today was (sed's author) McMahon's method of
arranging a tournament.
...was originally used as a club ranking system at the New York Go
Club. It was then adopted for Go tournaments in Britain, and has
since become the most popular tournament system used in Go.
— https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon_system_tournament
--
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy
4:13 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
I still don't get what was so bad about TECO.
*20t$$
<20 lines of text>
*fs<text to search for>$<text to replace it with>$$
*0lt$$ ; type current line to review what you've changed.
Very simple.
*<fstextsearch$textreplace$>$$
replace all occurrences of textsearch.
Now, of course, searching for something like a regular expression was
much harder.
Q-registers, all sorts of cool stuff.
But then, maybe I'm talking about a later version of TECO than you all.
I think I was on version 22 on TOPS-10 6.03A
On 11/14/2017 10:07 PM, Will Senn wrote:
I wasn't going to say it earlier, but now that
you've said something
about it... I was thinking, thank god, ed isn't teco! :).
On 11/14/17 8:37 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
It took me a while to realize that ed(1) is what
TECO should have
been.... Too much TECO trauma scared me away for far too long.... But
maybe it was all the TECO macros I wrote to make the BH100 terminal
useful as an editor in full screen mode....
Warner
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com
<mailto:lm@mcvoy.com>> wrote:
+1. Anyone who gets this is someone I'd work with.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 08:10:41PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
After
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
>On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org
<mailto:dave@horsfall.org>> wrote:
>>A previous boss insisted that all his
support staff learn ED,
because one
>>day it might be the only editor available
on a trashed box
(you can't
>>mount /usr etc).
>ed man; man ed
>
>https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
<https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html> (Sorry -- could not
resist)
N.
For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't really
appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto option anymore (v6). reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell
in love with it.
g/re/p? Who'd
of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual',
but the entire document is
editable and
its support of regex and the global command are
incredibly
powerful.
Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor.
Finally, ed is
the sibling of
sed and once I got the connection there, it
opened up a whole
new world of
editing awesomeness.
Will
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com <http://mcvoy.com>
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
4:23 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Ah, a later reply pointed out the minimalist thing. never mind ;)
On 11/15/2017 11:13 AM, Arthur Krewat wrote:
I still don't get what was so bad about TECO.
*20t$$
<20 lines of text>
*fs<text to search for>$<text to replace it with>$$
*0lt$$ ; type current line to review what you've changed.
Very simple.
*<fstextsearch$textreplace$>$$
replace all occurrences of textsearch.
Now, of course, searching for something like a regular expression was
much harder.
Q-registers, all sorts of cool stuff.
But then, maybe I'm talking about a later version of TECO than you
all. I think I was on version 22 on TOPS-10 6.03A
On 11/14/2017 10:07 PM, Will Senn wrote:
I wasn't going to say it earlier, but now
that you've said something
about it... I was thinking, thank god, ed isn't teco! :).
On 11/14/17 8:37 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
It took me a while to realize that ed(1) is what
TECO should have
been.... Too much TECO trauma scared me away for far too long....
But maybe it was all the TECO macros I wrote to make the BH100
terminal useful as an editor in full screen mode....
Warner
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com
<mailto:lm@mcvoy.com>> wrote:
+1. Anyone who gets this is someone I'd work with.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 08:10:41PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
>On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org
<mailto:dave@horsfall.org>> wrote:
>>A previous boss insisted that all his
support staff learn
ED, because one
>>day it might be the only editor available
on a trashed box
(you can't
>>mount /usr etc).
>ed man; man ed
>
>https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html
<https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html> (Sorry -- could not
resist)
>
>N.
For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't
really
appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto
option anymore
(v6). After
reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell
in love with it.
g/re/p? Who'd
of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual',
but the entire document
is editable and
its support of regex and the global command are
incredibly
powerful.
Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor.
Finally, ed is
the sibling of
sed and once I got the connection there, it
opened up a whole
new world of
editing awesomeness.
Will
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com <http://mcvoy.com>
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
4:48 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Teco commands were described as being 'indistinguishable from line noise.'
On 10/30/120 cps dial up lines, that was not always a good thing ;-)
One of my favorite stories of teco years ago, one of my friends was editing
a teco macro and had gotten up from his terminal for a minute, his wife
looked at the screen and asked him if his 2 year old has been attacking the
keyboard again.
Clem
BTW: My friend and former co-worker, Paul Cantrell wrote an excellent
teco implemnentation for UNIX. I believe if you go to his web site (
copters.com) and poke around its available for download.
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Arthur Krewat <krewat(a)kilonet.net> wrote:
Ah, a later reply pointed out the minimalist thing.
never mind ;)
On 11/15/2017 11:13 AM, Arthur Krewat wrote:
I still don't get what was so bad about TECO.
*20t$$
<20 lines of text>
*fs<text to search for>$<text to replace it with>$$
*0lt$$ ; type current line to review what you've changed.
Very simple.
*<fstextsearch$textreplace$>$$
replace all occurrences of textsearch.
Now, of course, searching for something like a regular expression was much
harder.
Q-registers, all sorts of cool stuff.
But then, maybe I'm talking about a later version of TECO than you all. I
think I was on version 22 on TOPS-10 6.03A
On 11/14/2017 10:07 PM, Will Senn wrote:
I wasn't going to say it earlier, but now that you've said something about
it... I was thinking, thank god, ed isn't teco! :).
On 11/14/17 8:37 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
It took me a while to realize that ed(1) is what TECO should have been....
Too much TECO trauma scared me away for far too long.... But maybe it was
all the TECO macros I wrote to make the BH100 terminal useful as an editor
in full screen mode....
Warner
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
+1. Anyone who gets this is someone I'd
work with.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 08:10:41PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
Who'd
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
>On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
>>A previous boss insisted that all his support staff learn ED, because
one
>day it
might be the only editor available on a trashed box (you can't
>mount /usr etc).
ed man; man ed
https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html (Sorry -- could not resist)
N.
For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't really
appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto option anymore (v6). After
reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell in love with it. g/re/p? of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual',
but the entire document is
editable and
its support of regex and the global command are
incredibly powerful.
Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor. Finally, ed is the
sibling of
sed and once I got the connection there, it
opened up a whole new world
of
editing awesomeness.
Will
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
6:13 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Tom Almy's version, based on Pete Siemsen's TECO implementation
is available as a FreeBSD port. Also runs on a bunch of other
platforms. A more recent version with Blake McBride's changes
is at https://github.com/blakemcbride/TECOC. I had used TECO a
long time ago on TOPS-10 so I played with this version but it
feels completely foreign to me now:-)
On Nov 15, 2017, at 8:48 AM, Clem Cole
<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Teco commands were described as being 'indistinguishable from line noise.' On
10/30/120 cps dial up lines, that was not always a good thing ;-)
One of my favorite stories of teco years ago, one of my friends was editing a teco macro
and had gotten up from his terminal for a minute, his wife looked at the screen and asked
him if his 2 year old has been attacking the keyboard again.
Clem
BTW: My friend and former co-worker, Paul Cantrell wrote an excellent teco
implemnentation for UNIX. I believe if you go to his web site (copters.com) and poke
around its available for download.
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Arthur Krewat <krewat(a)kilonet.net> wrote:
Ah, a later reply pointed out the minimalist thing. never mind ;)
On 11/15/2017 11:13 AM, Arthur Krewat wrote:
I still don't get what was so bad about
TECO.
*20t$$
<20 lines of text>
*fs<text to search for>$<text to replace it with>$$
*0lt$$ ; type current line to review what you've changed.
Very simple.
*<fstextsearch$textreplace$>$$
replace all occurrences of textsearch.
Now, of course, searching for something like a regular expression was much harder.
Q-registers, all sorts of cool stuff.
But then, maybe I'm talking about a later version of TECO than you all. I think I
was on version 22 on TOPS-10 6.03A
On 11/14/2017 10:07 PM, Will Senn wrote:
I wasn't going to say it earlier, but now
that you've said something about it... I was thinking, thank god, ed isn't teco!
:).
On 11/14/17 8:37 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
It took me a while to realize that ed(1) is what
TECO should have been.... Too much TECO trauma scared me away for far too long.... But
maybe it was all the TECO macros I wrote to make the BH100 terminal useful as an editor in
full screen mode....
Warner
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
+1. Anyone who gets this is someone I'd work with.
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 08:10:41PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
> On 11/14/17 7:25 PM, Nemo wrote:
> >On 31/10/2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
> >>A previous boss insisted that all his support staff learn ED, because one
> >>day it might be the only editor available on a trashed box (you can't
> >>mount /usr etc).
> >ed man; man ed
> >
> >https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html (Sorry -- could not resist)
> >
> >N.
>
> For all that it's the butt of jokes, ed is awesome. I didn't really
> appreciate it until vi wasn't an easy goto option anymore (v6). After
> reading Kernighan's tutorial, I kind of fell in love with it. g/re/p?
Who'd
> of thunk it? ed may not be 'visual', but the entire document is editable
and
> its support of regex and the global command are incredibly powerful.
> Especially, for so incredibly tiny an editor. Finally, ed is the sibling of
> sed and once I got the connection there, it opened up a whole new world of
> editing awesomeness.
>
> Will
>
> --
> GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
--
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462 7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF
7:01 p.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Bakul Shah <bakul(a)bitblocks.com> wrote:
Tom Almy's version,
I'd forgotten Tom was a teco guy. I'm not sure what happened too it, but
at some point Tom and I got the RT11 version (which was in Macro-11
assembler) running in V7 @ Tektronix before we had vi. Tom was the biggest
user at that point. I was running something Phil Karn had brought to CMU
from Cornell (and I took to Tektronix) called 'fred' (friendly ed) which
had compiled in terminal support. Fred supported glass tty's; which is why
I liked it even though I knew teco & emacs from my 10's days. Mark Bales
came up from Berkeley later that summer and brought 1BSD/2BSD with him
(that's when I learned csh and reprogrammed my fingers to the current rom
configuration). Gosling Emacs for UNIX does not show up until we started
running Vaxen and had the address space, so at the time it was ed, fred,
vi, teco on the 11s.
7:52 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
Suddenly I fell like I'm in a TECO support group ;)
I have my own implementations of TECO - both on UNIX and MSDOS (of all
things). They both do colorization of structured programming, something
that preceded EMACs colorization by a few years.
I always wondered if my released MSDOS version of TECO gave people ideas.
When did EMACS start coloring things? I started it in my TECO as of
around 1984-1985 - it supported it in text strings, parentheses, etc.
From my MSDOS version, showing some MASM code:
The structured macros were inspired by Bruce Maier's structured macros
he did for MACRO-10 on TOPS-10 in the mid to late 70's.
On 11/15/2017 2:01 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Bakul Shah <bakul(a)bitblocks.com
<mailto:bakul@bitblocks.com>> wrote:
Tom Almy's version,
I'd forgotten Tom was a teco guy. I'm not sure what happened too
it, but at some point Tom and I got the RT11 version (which was in
Macro-11 assembler) running in V7 @ Tektronix before we had vi. Tom
was the biggest user at that point. I was running something Phil Karn
had brought to CMU from Cornell (and I took to Tektronix) called
'fred' (friendly ed) which had compiled in terminal support. Fred
supported glass tty's; which is why I liked it even though I knew teco
& emacs from my 10's days. Mark Bales came up from Berkeley later
that summer and brought 1BSD/2BSD with him (that's when I learned csh
and reprogrammed my fingers to the current rom configuration).
Gosling Emacs for UNIX does not show up until we started running Vaxen
and had the address space, so at the time it was ed, fred, vi, teco on
the 11s.
8:19 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Arthur Krewat <krewat(a)kilonet.net> wrote:
When did EMACS start coloring things?
I'm fairly sure, Gosling EMACS could do color by '83 when we had it on the
Masscomp systems. Cantrell's Teco was a year or two later always support
color in some manner, because was a graphics guy at Masscomp (and DEC
before that).
I'm dating this by, the fact I had left Berkeley by then. PC or one of
the HW folks had written a set of EMACS macro's to emulate VMS's EDT for
the ex-DEC HW guys which used color. The MIT contingent was all EMACS,
but we switched to Zimmerman's EMACS when we hired Steve I want to say in
84 or 85. I remember there was some heartache because Zimmerman EMACS was
very close to ITS EMACS and preferred by the ex-MIT folks (unlike Gosling
EMACS). But the color stuff for EDT broke and there was complaining from
the HW folks. [Andy Tannenbaum, Eric Ginger and I were the die hard ed/vi
folks - which in those days was BW - to this day even with vim, I still
rarely use colors with that editor].
8:25 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
It's always interesting how parallel development happens with certain
things.
I certainly had no exposure to EMACS at the time I came up with the
idea, nor the rest of this community you describe.
I'm not sure I like vim's coloring, actually. I find myself having to
search for a nonexistent string just to get rid of it's highlighting of
a search string.
On 11/15/2017 3:19 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Arthur Krewat <krewat(a)kilonet.net
<mailto:krewat@kilonet.net>> wrote:
When did EMACS start coloring things?
I'm fairly sure, Gosling EMACS could do color by '83 when we had it
on the Masscomp systems. Cantrell's Teco was a year or two later
always support color in some manner, because was a graphics guy at
Masscomp (and DEC before that).
I'm dating this by, the fact I had left Berkeley by then. PC or one
of the HW folks had written a set of EMACS macro's to emulate VMS's
EDT for the ex-DEC HW guys which used color. The MIT contingent was
all EMACS, but we switched to Zimmerman's EMACS when we hired Steve I
want to say in 84 or 85. I remember there was some heartache because
Zimmerman EMACS was very close to ITS EMACS and preferred by the
ex-MIT folks (unlike Gosling EMACS). But the color stuff for EDT
broke and there was complaining from the HW folks. [Andy Tannenbaum,
Eric Ginger and I were the die hard ed/vi folks - which in those days
was BW - to this day even with vim, I still rarely use colors with
that editor].
10:18 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
Hi Arthur,
I'm not sure I like vim's coloring,
actually. I find myself having to
search for a nonexistent string just to get rid of it's highlighting
`:noh' turns off the highlighting of the current matches.
They start again on the next search, e.g. `n'.
In less(1), it's `Esc u'.
--
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy
10:42 p.m.
New subject: :nohlsearch in vim
`:noh' turns off the highlighting of the current
matches.
YAY!
I've been using Arthur Krewat's method, basically /asdf<CR>,
for a long time now. Now I have:
map <Leader><Leader> :nohlsearch<CR>
in my .vimrc (<Leader> is backslash, so after /foo<CR>, \\ turns
off the highlighting).
One other really useful thing, given issues with tabs vs spaces,
that I'll share here, comes just before this new entry:
function! ToggleTabs()
if &list
set nolist
else
set list listchars=tab:>.,trail:>,precedes:<
endif
endfunction
map <Leader>t :call ToggleTabs()<CR>
With this, \t makes tabs visible, or invisible if they are
currently visible. Despite the name it also highlights trailing
whitespace (the highlight is a bit subtle though).
Chris
16 Nov
16 Nov
12:29 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 11/15/2017 01:25 PM, Arthur Krewat wrote:
I find myself having to search for a nonexistent
string just to get rid
of it's highlighting of a search string.
" Map normal mode ^L to :noh to turn of hilighting of the most recent
search.
nnoremap <C-L> :noh<CR><C-L>
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:35 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 11/15/2017 05:29 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote:
" Map normal mode ^L to :noh to turn of
hilighting of the most recent
search.
nnoremap <C-L> :noh<CR><C-L>
I hit send too soon.
Credit goes to @Gumnos for the idea.
I also like the fact that ^L causes screen redraw, so double duty.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:52 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
Speaking of TECO, this is from a wikipedia article on it. Presented w/o
comment...
run TECO
*GZ0J\UNQN"E 20UN '
BUH BUV HK
QN< J BUQ QN*10/3UI
QI< \ +2*10+(QQ*QI)UA
B L K QI*2-1UJ QA/QJUQ
QA-(QQ*QJ)-2\ 10@I// -1%I >
QQ/10UT QH+QT+48UW QW-58"E 48UW %V ' QV"N QV^T '
QWUV QQ-(QT*10)UH >
QV^T @^A/
/HKEX$$
31415926535897932384
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
wrote:
On 11/15/2017 05:29 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote:
" Map normal mode ^L to :noh to turn of
hilighting of the most recent
search.
nnoremap <C-L> :noh<CR><C-L>
I hit send too soon.
Credit goes to @Gumnos for the idea.
I also like the fact that ^L causes screen redraw, so double duty.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
1:17 a.m.
New subject: basic tools / Universal Unix
Il 01/11/2017 alle 14:25, Tim Bradshaw ha scritto:
Of course nowadays you can't rely on the thing
called 'ed' being
'ed': I know someone who lives in ed but can't run it on some machines
because it relies on something in /var somewhere being writable, which
it isn't. I've always thought that the *whole point* of ed was that
it did not rely on vast tracts of the system actually being there,
still less beng functional. This person now has to edit things with
cat (which, in some future release, will probably start assuming that
there's a configured ipv6 interface or something, because why would
that ever not be true?).
I recommend said person install `ed' from the Heirloom project: it's a
traditional version (with added support for UTF-8). It will even work on
modern GNU/Linux (I know for sure because it's the one I use).
http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/
--
Dario Niedermann. Also on the Internet at:
gopher://darioniedermann.it/ <> https://www.darioniedermann.it/
2:44 a.m.
New subject: :nohlsearch in vim
Hey Chris, do you remember the story about why Morris’s worm wasn’t able to break into
UMD’s machines through the finger daemon? ;)
Do you still have the logs…?
-Don
On 15 Nov 2017, at 23:42, Chris Torek
<torek(a)elf.torek.net> wrote:
`:noh' turns off the highlighting of the
current matches.
YAY!
I've been using Arthur Krewat's method, basically /asdf<CR>,
for a long time now. Now I have:
map <Leader><Leader> :nohlsearch<CR>
in my .vimrc (<Leader> is backslash, so after /foo<CR>, \\ turns
off the highlighting).
One other really useful thing, given issues with tabs vs spaces,
that I'll share here, comes just before this new entry:
function! ToggleTabs()
if &list
set nolist
else
set list listchars=tab:>.,trail:>,precedes:<
endif
endfunction
map <Leader>t :call ToggleTabs()<CR>
With this, \t makes tabs visible, or invisible if they are
currently visible. Despite the name it also highlights trailing
whitespace (the highlight is a bit subtle though).
Chris
4:34 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Wed, 15 Nov 2017, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
`:noh' turns off the highlighting of the current
matches.
They start again on the next search, e.g. `n'.
In less(1), it's `Esc u'.
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by Penguin/OS' silly coloured
"ls" output? I can never remember how to turn off that frippery, as the
contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the minimalist "F" flag works
just fine.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
4:36 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
You are not the only one !!!
From: "Dave Horsfall" <dave(a)horsfall.org>
To: "The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:34:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Wed, 15 Nov 2017, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
`:noh' turns off the highlighting of the current
matches.
They start again on the next search, e.g. `n'.
In less(1), it's `Esc u'.
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by Penguin/OS' silly coloured
"ls" output? I can never remember how to turn off that frippery, as the
contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the minimalist "F" flag works
just fine.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
8:42 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 16/11/2017 04:34, Dave Horsfall wrote:
I find the colours awful, and have that stupidity turned off, along with
the coloured prompt, the ridiculously long path in the prompt, and set
MANPAGER="less -X" so as not to disappear manpages.
--
Pete
Pete Turnbull
Speaking of
which, am I the only one annoyed by Penguin/OS' silly
coloured "ls"
output? I can never remember how to turn off that
frippery, as the contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the
minimalist "F" flag works just fine.
9:19 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by
Penguin/OS' silly coloured
"ls" output? I can never remember how to turn off that frippery, as the
contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the minimalist "F" flag works
just fine.
I *think* that's because some global file does something like
alias ls='ls --colors'
You can verify with
type ls
Try running
unalias ls
and see if that helps.
Arnold
9:29 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: basic tools / Universal Unix
is the Unix implementation free for the public?From: Arthur Krewat
&lt;krewat(a)kilonet.net&gt;Sent;gt;Sent: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 01:22:36To: Clem Cole
&lt;clemc(a)ccc.com&gtm>, Bakul Shah &lt;bakul(a)bitblocks.com&gt;Ccmp;gt;Cc: TUHS main
list &lt;tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org&gt;Subject;Subject: [TUHS] TECO was: basic tools / Universal
UnixSuddenly I fell like I'm in a TECO support group ;)I have my own
implementations of TECO - both on UNIX and MSDOS (of all things). They both do
colorization of structured programming, something that preceded EMACs colorization by a
few years.I always wondered if my released MSDOS version of TECO gave people ideas.When
did EMACS start coloring things? I started it in my TECO as of around 1984-1985 - it
supported it in text strings, parentheses, etc. From my MSDOS version, showing some MASM
code:The structured macros were inspired by Bruce Maier's structured macros he did
for MACRO-10 on TOPS-10 in the mid to late 70's. On 11/15/2017 2:01 PM,
Clem Cole wrote:
-c7SVer_OetpYCwxK2Q(a)mail.gmail.com&quot;&gt;&nbspgt;
On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Bakul Shah &lt;bakul(a)bitblocks.com&gtm>
wrote:
Tom Almy's version,
I'd forgotten Tom was a teco guy. I'm not sure what happened
too it, but at some point Tom and I got the RT11 version (which was in Macro-11 assembler)
running in V7 @ Tektronix before we had vi. Tom was the biggest user at that
point. I was running something Phil Karn had brought to CMU from Cornell (and I
took to Tektronix) called 'fred' (friendly ed) which had compiled in
terminal support. Fred supported glass tty's; which is why I liked it even though
I knew teco & emacs from my 10's days. Mark Bales came up from
Berkeley later that summer and brought 1BSD/2BSD with him (that's when I learned
csh and reprogrammed my fingers to the current rom configuration). Gosling Emacs
for UNIX does not show up until we started running Vaxen and had the address space, so at
the time it was ed, fred, vi, teco on the 11s.
2:55 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Mutiny <mutiny.mutiny(a)rediffmail.com>
wrote:
is the Unix implementation free for the public
I sent PC a note and this the reply ...
From:
Paul Cantrell
To: Clem Cole
Date:
Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 8:51 AM
Subject: teco
Hey Clem,
lol, it’s funny, but there’s still lots of stuff I use it for despite the
fact that I haven’t really worked on it in years.
There’s a version up on the net here: http://videoteco.cvs.
sourceforge.net/viewvc/videoteco/videoteco/
although I can’t say how well that builds these days… Still, people are
welcome to give it a try.
I keep thinking about re-writing it in a modern language…
8:35 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Mutiny wrote:
is the Unix implementation free for the public?
There's a FreeBSD port for it; I might even try it... Can't find a Mac
version, though, at least not in MacPorts.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
9 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: basic tools / Universal Unix
PC did his original development on a Masscomp box which was basically 4.2
APIs and was one of the original X systems (its what ORA did the original
doc and how Tim got his start). Paul is a Mac guy (at one point it
compiled on the 68K Mac OS) and he moved the development there at one
point. So, I suspect it will build without too much difficulty on *BSD
style systems (and he might even answer a question or two if you run into
issues).
I suggest try it and see how far you get. The biggest issue is the video
calls were for older versions and I don't think they talk to modern API's;
but I suspect on the Mac the X windows system will work fine.
Then again, I have not tried it in years and I'm not sure at this point, I
could pull teco commands out of my long paged out personal memory system.
Clem
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Mutiny wrote:
is the Unix implementation free for the public?
There's a FreeBSD port for it; I might even try it... Can't find a Mac
version, though, at least not in MacPorts.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
9:26 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017, at 09:55, Clem Cole wrote:
I sent PC a note and this the reply ...
From: Paul Cantrell
There’s a version up on the net here: http://videoteco.cvs.
sourceforge.net/viewvc/videoteco/videoteco/
although I can’t say how well that builds these days… Still, people are
welcome to give it a try.
It builds, with a number of warnings - the most concerning of which are
pointer/integer casts on 64-bit systems (most seem to be debug printing,
but there are a couple that aren't), but seems to run okay - I don't
know any teco to really exercise it though.
9:59 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by
Penguin/OS' silly
coloured "ls" output? I can never remember how to turn off that
frippery, as the contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the
minimalist "F" flag works just fine.
Thanks, all; I'll just knock up a simple script that blows away the entire
environment and unaliases everything in sight. I'll probably call it
"orca" because I have a warped sense of humour...
Unix taught me to be minimalist; you had to be when writing a bootstrap to
fit into 512 bytes...
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
10:58 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thursday, November 16, 2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by Penguin/OS' silly coloured
If you happen to be on Red Hat derived Linux, the easiest way to turn off
all this crap is to rename /etc/profile to something like /etc/profile.dist
and then populate your own startup scripts.
For a minimalist prompt I just use:
export PS1='\h \$ '
--Andy
"ls" output? I can never remember how
to turn off that frippery, as the
contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the minimalist "F" flag works
just fine.
Thanks, all; I'll just knock up a simple script that blows away the entire
environment and unaliases everything in sight. I'll probably call it
"orca" because I have a warped sense of humour...
Unix taught me to be minimalist; you had to be when writing a bootstrap to
fit into 512 bytes...
17 Nov
17 Nov
1:18 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 15:34:30 +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2017, Ralph Corderoy wrote:
Certainly not. But I don't think it's all Linux. I've summarized how
to fix this and other annoyance in my Linux HOWTO page:
http://www.lemis.com/grog/HOWTO/linux-setup.php
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA
`:noh' turns off the highlighting of the
current matches.
They start again on the next search, e.g. `n'.
In less(1), it's `Esc u'.
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by Penguin/OS' silly
coloured "ls" output? 
2:17 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
Reminds me of a comment a seasoned co-worker came out with when
looking over a new employee's program, filled with
variableNamesThatRanOnAndOnForHalfALineOrMaybeLonger. "I used to
write boot loaders that were shorter than your variable names!"
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Kosela" <akosela(a)andykosela.com>
To:"Dave Horsfall" <dave(a)horsfall.org>
Cc:"The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
Sent:Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:58:59 +0100
Subject:Re: [TUHS] TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thursday, November 16, 2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org [1]>
wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by Penguin/OS' silly
coloured "ls" output? I can never remember how to turn off that
frippery, as the contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the
minimalist "F" flag works just fine.
Thanks, all; I'll just knock up a simple script that blows away the
entire environment and unaliases everything in sight. I'll probably
call it "orca" because I have a warped sense of humour...
Unix taught me to be minimalist; you had to be when writing a
bootstrap to fit into 512 bytes...
If you happen to be on Red Hat derived Linux, the easiest way to turn
off all this crap is to rename /etc/profile to something like
/etc/profile.dist and then populate your own startup scripts.
For a minimalist prompt I just use:
export PS1='h $ '
--Andy
Links:
------
[1] mailto:dave@horsfall.org
2:38 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
I THINK that I don't like ls colours, but I have to admit that since I
started trying to pay attention more, I find colour coding has some
value, for some meaning of some and no value defined.
Actually no, I still hate colour LS. I like ls -F because the implied
extra information can be semantically extracted with a grep, although
why find . -type d -maxdepth 1 isn't being used is beyond me.
de gustibus non disputandum, but on a unibus, there are also no
disputes because the bus master arbitrates
On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Steve Johnson <scj(a)yaccman.com> wrote:
Reminds me of a comment a seasoned co-worker came out
with when looking over
a new employee's program, filled with
variableNamesThatRanOnAndOnForHalfALineOrMaybeLonger. "I used to write boot
loaders that were shorter than your variable names!"
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From:
"Andy Kosela" <akosela(a)andykosela.com>
To:
"Dave Horsfall" <dave(a)horsfall.org>
Cc:
"The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
Sent:
Thu, 16 Nov 2017 23:58:59 +0100
Subject:
Re: [TUHS] TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thursday, November 16, 2017, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Dave Horsfall wrote:
If you happen to be on Red Hat derived Linux, the easiest way to turn off
all this crap is to rename /etc/profile to something like /etc/profile.dist
and then populate your own startup scripts.
For a minimalist prompt I just use:
export PS1='\h \$ '
--Andy
Speaking of which, am I the only one annoyed by
Penguin/OS' silly
coloured "ls" output? I can never remember how to turn off that frippery,
as the contrast is particularly hard on my eyes; the minimalist "F" flag
works just fine.
Thanks, all; I'll just knock up a simple script that blows away the entire
environment and unaliases everything in sight. I'll probably call it
"orca"
because I have a warped sense of humour...
Unix taught me to be minimalist; you had to be when writing a bootstrap to
fit into 512 bytes...
3:50 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Nov 16, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Andy Kosela
<akosela(a)andykosela.com> wrote:
If you happen to be on Red Hat derived Linux, the easiest way to turn off all this crap
is to rename /etc/profile to something like /etc/profile.dist and then populate your own
startup scripts.
Better is to install a .profile that begins with 'unalias -a'. That seems to
clean out all the cruft and leave you with a clean slate to build from.
I've just learned to install my own .profile and .env files, and ignore the crap
foisted on me by ... whatever ...
3:56 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 2017-11-17 10:38, George Michaelson wrote:
Actually no, I still hate colour LS. I like ls -F
because the implied
extra information can be semantically extracted with a grep, although
why find . -type d -maxdepth 1 isn't being used is beyond me.
Colorized ls can show you other things. For example:
* setuid/setgid files
* broken symlinks
ls -F can't do these.
Myself, I like ls itself to be colourless, but I do have an alias "cls"
and use it often.
--
Please don't Cc: me privately on mailing lists and Usenet,
if you also post the followup to the list or newsgroup.
To reply privately _only_ on Usenet, fetch the TXT record for the domain.
4:07 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
On 2017-11-17 10:38, George Michaelson wrote:
Overall I guess it's more of a matter of, well, do you want Unix or do you
want GNU? On a desktop, I tend to find the GNU extensions useful. On a
server, I think I want lean and mean, minimalist, and more of a pure Unix
environment.
-uso.
Actually no, I still hate colour LS. I like ls -F
because the implied
extra information can be semantically extracted with a grep, although
why find . -type d -maxdepth 1 isn't being used is beyond me.
Colorized ls can show you other things. For example:
* setuid/setgid files
* broken symlinks
ls -F can't do these.
Myself, I like ls itself to be colourless, but I do have an alias "cls"
and use it often.
6:28 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: basic tools / Universal Unix
Mutiny wrote:
is the Unix implementation free for the public?
Another one? SciTECO.
https://github.com/rhaberkorn/sciteco
6:51 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On Friday, November 17, 2017, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca> wrote:
Why wasting all the cycles for sourcing all this crap in the first place?
I know we have faster computers now, but still I do not want to load
something that is completely unnecessary, just so I can remove it later
with 'unalias'.
IMHO it is much cleaner to remove/rename all this, and then start with your
own scripts.
I happen to still work a lot on hardware monochrome terminals connected
via serial -- it is noticably slower if color information is included in
the output...
I always hated color on UNIX. Monochrome green/amber/white is perfectly
fine to me.
--Andy
On Nov 16, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Andy Kosela
<akosela(a)andykosela.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
If you happen to be on Red Hat derived Linux, the easiest way to turn
off all this
crap is to rename /etc/profile to something like
/etc/profile.dist and then populate your own startup scripts.
Better is to install a .profile that begins with 'unalias -a'. That seems
to clean out all the cruft and leave you with a clean slate to build from.
I've just learned to install my own .profile and .env files, and ignore
the crap foisted on me by ... whatever ... 
8:44 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
On 17 Nov 2017 10:38 +0800, from ggm(a)algebras.org (George Michaelson):
although why find . -type d -maxdepth 1 isn't
being used is beyond me.
(In normal usage) unless you want your dot-directories as well,
there's always good ol' \ls -1d */, or even echo */ if you can live
with the entries being all on one line separated by just one space.
Works nicely in an interactive shell, but may be slightly too
unreliable for a script (in GNU bash, the exact behavior depends on
the globbing options such as dotglob; other shells might act
differently based on state too, I just am not too familiar with them).
Using \ls above because some people (including myself) already have
their ls aliased to a ls command that includes -F, which looks ugly
when used with -d */. If you aren't one of them, then maybe you don't
need the backslash.
Using echo has the bonus that it's very often built in to the shell,
so no external invocation is required.
I don't think I'd call find minimalistic anything. :-) Modern ls is
pretty bloated too (surprisingly enough, on my system, the binary for
find is only about twice the size of the binary for ls; 233,968 and
114,032 bytes, respectively, but that's not counting any libraries
they pull in dynamically), but ls is probably in the disk cache
already; echo's nice and lean, though...
--
Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael(a)kjorling.se
“People who think they know everything really annoy
those of us who know we don’t.” (Bjarne Stroustrup)
9:08 a.m.
New subject: TECO was: basic tools / Universal Unix
Does ESCESC work for you?From: Random832 &lt;random832(a)fastmail.com&gt;Sent;gt;Sent: Fri,
17 Nov 2017 02:57:38To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.orgSubject: Re: [TUHS] TECO was: basic tools /
Universal UnixOn Thu, Nov 16, 2017, at 09:55, Clem Cole wrote:> I sent PC a note
and this the reply ...> From: Paul Cantrell> There’s a
version up on the net here: http://videoteco.cvs.>p;gt;
sourceforge.net/viewvc/videoteco/videoteco/>>> although I can’t say
how well that builds these days… Still, people are> welcome to give it a
try.It builds, with a number of warnings - the most concerning of which arepointer/integer
casts on 64-bit systems (most seem to be debug printing,but there are a couple that
aren't), but seems to run okay - I don'tknow any teco to really exercise
it though.
18 Nov
18 Nov
2:39 p.m.
New subject: TECO was: Re: basic tools / Universal Unix
Hi,
Pete Turnbull wrote:
and set MANPAGER="less -X" so as not to
disappear manpages.
(This is to stop the terminal switching between its two screens so the
useful bit of the man page is hidden from view when you quit, even
though you then want to type based on its content.)
For vim, `set t_ti= t_te=' overrides the terminal's definition.
Or, have a ~/.terminfo/... compiled from the system's default but with
those entries blanked. Then all commands are "fixed".
--
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy
2345
days inactive
2364
days old
63 comments
34 participants
participants (34)
-
Andy Kosela -
arnold＠skeeve.com -
Arthur Krewat -
Bakul Shah -
Charles Anthony -
Chet Ramey -
Chris Torek -
Clem Cole -
Dan Cross -
Dario Niedermann -
Dave Horsfall -
Don Hopkins -
George Michaelson -
Grant Taylor -
Greg 'groggy' Lehey -
Ian Zimmerman -
Jim Capp -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
Larry McVoy -
Lars Brinkhoff -
Lyndon Nerenberg -
Michael Kjörling -
Mutiny -
Nemo -
Paul Winalski -
Pete Turnbull -
Ralph Corderoy -
Random832 -
Ronald Natalie -
Steve Johnson -
Steve Nickolas -
Tim Bradshaw -
Warner Losh -
Will Senn