Steven M. Schultz <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> wrote:
> > Can anyone shed any light on a company called Dilog.
>
> Not sure if they're still in the DEC business but at one time they
> were one of the major 3rd party vendors making Qbus and Unibus
> controllers.
I don't know if it's their only business, but they still sell (and
hopefully make) these controllers. One of their guys was trying to sell me
one just a few months ago. Of course, their prices are way off-base
compared to the used market.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 216-368-6888 (Office) 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)blackwidow.cwru.edu
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sun Jul 12 12:59:31 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199807120259.MAA01524(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PUPS
To: jim(a)sco.COM (Jim Sullivan)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:59:31 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980710080445.00691374(a)mammoth.sco.com> from Jim Sullivan at "Jul 10, 98 11:12:48 am"
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In article by Jim Sullivan:
> Do you know if anyone from PUPS is going to SCO Forum/Usenix in
> August in Santa Cruz?
>
> If so, we'd love to connect, if just to say Hi!
>
> Also, SCO has a quarterly Developer's newsletter, called CoreDump.
> Would anyone within PUPS be interested in submitting an article
> for the next edition? 500 words outlining the goals of PUPS
> and how to join/participate? Seems like a nice way to quietly
> promote your efforts.
>
> What do you think?
Hi Jim, I'll pass this email on to the mailing list. I'll probably take you
up on the article. Thanks!
I'm in Australia & not likely to get to Santa Cruz in any hurry. :-(
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Jul 13 13:47:55 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199807130347.NAA07263(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Recovering old UNIX manuals
To: norman(a)nose.cs.yorku.ca
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:47:55 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <WAA00038(a)lion.cs.yorku.ca> from "norman(a)nose.cs.yorku.ca" at "Jul 12, 98 10:20:04 pm"
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All,
I'm forwarding on Norman's e-mail describing his efforts at
converting his paper-only copies of the early UNIX manuals back into
machine-readable format.
Warren
norman(a)nose.cs.yorku.ca writes:
> The first pass of markup is all done on chapter I of 5e, which is
> all I have scanned so far. It is tempting to forge ahead on the
> text extracted from Dennis's 1e, but I hope to discipline myself
> to finish some surrounding documentation and tools. On each front,
> right now there is:
> - a small collection of tools to pre-process what comes out
> of the OCR into something that is easy to mark up.
> Specifically there are a couple of little filters that
> fix up the non-ASCII characters emitted by the Mac, and
> that glue hyphenated words back together; and a rather
> bigger awk script that does some of the easy grunt work
> like spotting and marking up entry titles and section headers.
> - a description of the markup language (written in itself,
> of course).
> - a program (also in awk, and surprisingly long) to render
> the markup language into approximately V7 -man. (I have
> actually done all the work so far on the MicroVAX in my
> basement, which is one of the last remaining V10 systems
> in the world, and it won't surprise me to learn that the
> renderer has accidentally picked up some V10-specific
> assumptions.)
> - a collection of advice on style and known OCR botches
> and whatnot for those who mark up and proof the manuals
> as they go through the pipe. (At the moment `those' means
> me and my collaborator in California.)
>
> The most important missing tools and writings are something to render
> into HTML, and something that explains a little more generally just
> what it is I am doing (and how it differs from what Dennis did, and
> for that matter from just trying to regenerate the original troff
> input) and describes the tools and so on. My current hope is to
> get those done in odd moments this week; once I have a decent
> approximation of each, I want to put copies of all the documents
> and all the tools and a few sample pages from 5e up on the web, so
> people have something to look at and I can get comments from a wider
> group. (Obviously I'll drop a note to the PUPS mailing list when
> things are up there.)
>
> While I'm writing the HTML renderer and the missing document this
> week, my colleague in California has already begun an independent
> proofreading pass over the stuff I've marked up, which is a damn
> good thing because I can't see the errors any more (and she has
> already spotted some).
>
> The other tools I know are missing are
> - some sort of structure to allow the old pre-typesetter manuals
> to be rendered in a good approximation of their original form.
> At the moment I expect this will just be a troff macro package
> with the syntax of V7 -man, so I can just use the existing renderer,
> though I can see some font issues looming that may cause force the
> renderer to change (perhaps in a way general enough that there will
> still be only one renderer).
> - something to allow V6-era -man (or /usr/man/man0/naa, to name it
> properly) macros to work too; the obvious cheap way out is something
> that translates V7 -man to V6, presumably with the knowledge that what
> it is translating came out of my markto7man renderer (which restricts
> the language quite a bit, so the job is a lot simpler). I'm not sure
> how important this is--the obvious short-term goal is to be able to
> have a man command in the V5 environment, and since the macros probably
> aren't in the existing distribution, it's fair game to bring in a copy
> of the V7 ones--but it seems worth having in the long run if only for
> fun.
>
> I'd originally thought to write more of the tools before doing so
> much markup, but I'm glad I didn't--the markup language mutated more
> than I expected as experience showed where it was wrong, and it made
> life simpler to have only one renderer to update. I think it is
> pretty much stable now, and in any case I am champing at the bit to
> be able to display things in HTML.
>
> A final complication in all this: it is all but certain that I'll
> be resigning from York this week, effective in about a month, to
> jump back to a position at the University of Toronto (running
> computers for the Canadian Institute for Theoretical Astrophysics).
> This is not a surprise to anyone concerned (including the folks here
> at York--the real reason for the move is that the eleven-mile commute
> to York is just too long for me), but it will certainly have both
> short- and long-term effects on the time I can spend on the manuals.
> The long-term effects may not be what you think, though: the scanner
> and OCR setup I've been using is located at CITA, so once I've settled
> in there (and especially once I get the tools sorted out well enough
> that it is effectively a pipeline), it should be pretty convenient
> to spend the odd hour scanning in a handful of pages.
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Mon Jul 13 23:44:42 1998
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Message-Id: <199807131344.JAA12765(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Recovering old UNIX manuals
In-Reply-To: <199807130347.NAA07263(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Jul 13, 98 01:47:55 pm"
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:44:42 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: norman(a)nose.cs.yorku.ca, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> All,
> I'm forwarding on Norman's e-mail describing his efforts at
> converting his paper-only copies of the early UNIX manuals back into
> machine-readable format.
>
> Warren
>
> norman(a)nose.cs.yorku.ca writes:
> > The first pass of markup is all done on chapter I of 5e, which is
> > all I have scanned so far. It is tempting to forge ahead on the
> > text extracted from Dennis's 1e, but I hope to discipline myself
> > to finish some surrounding documentation and tools. On each front,
> > right now there is:
On a similar bent, I have been working on roffing Dennis' V1 manuals,
using the earliest roff I could still find some sort of source to.
It is one that was popular in the early CP/M days, that also found
its way into dos and unix. How true to the original it is, I dunno,
but it works. They are about 2/3 done, maybe, but my time to get them
done is not as much as I would like.
What should I do with them once they are done? I was thinking of just
sending the source/output back to Dennis, but if it is OK to put them in
in the PUPS archives, I can bounce them to Warren.
Thanks to Dennis Ritchie for making them available.
Bob Keys
p.s. You know, with all this html thingie, whatever happened to just
a real roff/nroff/troff output? It is only ascii. Why html?
Just curious as to why/wherefore/etc.
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As Steven Schultz says, Dilog used to make a lot of DEC-compatible
peripheral gear. The old company has been gone for years, but there
is a descendant in Switzerland; see http://www.dilog.ch for details
and contacts. There are still people there who can dig up info about
old Dilog Qbus interfaces; I have discovered this empirically.
Perhaps they know about the Vixen box; certainly they can likely
find out about the Dilog disk controller.
Norman Wilson
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On May 10, 9:49, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
>
> > From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
> > I wouldn't be *that* surprised by these results. For instance, I
believe
> > that longs are implemented with FP. And I wouldn't be surprised if a
few
> > FP ops were sneaked in to compute some stuff that aren't immediately
> > appearant.
>
> It is true that _some_ long arithmetic is done using FP. The long
> divide is done that way (at least in 2BSD, I've not looked at V7
> yet) because it is much much less code to convert the operands to
> FP, do the divide, and then convert the result back (the
alternative
> is about two pages of code).
> The C compiler itself did NOT generate FP unless the operands were
> explicitly FP (float or double). Most C code was 'int' or 'char *'
> and no FP code was needed or used for that.
That bears out what I disovered by accident yesterday -- looking at a 7th
Edition UK source distribution for 11/23's and other small machines. The
READ_ME file lists the programs that have possible floating point problems,
or which might be too big using emulation. I can't remember the details,
but the list had a few surprises.
Most of the C programs have very little FP, and that is mostly due to a
small number of library routines that include FP ops, but one or two
programs are exceptional.
For example, 'factor' has a lot of FP at the beginning, a chunk in the
middle, and a large subroutine near the end, which uses FP to compute
square roots using Newton's method. factor is written in assembler, not C,
and has much more FP than other things I looked at, but several other
programs use a little.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon May 11 08:58:57 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805102258.IAA02806(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: PUPS Mail List welcome + news
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:58:57 +1000 (EST)
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We've had a regular intake of new subscribers to the PUPS mailing list, so
I thought I'd say Welcome to all the newcomers. There are now 90 people on
the list, and the quantity of messages is increasing daily.
The mailing list is also available in a digest form, which is distributed
twice a week. If you would rather be on the digest list, send mail to
majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au with the lines in the body of the mail:
unsubscribe pups
subscribe pups-digest
For more information about old UNIX, see the PUPS web pages at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS, and the FAQ in particular.
The most recent news is that both Bob Supnik and the Begemot team have
released new versions of their PDP-11 emulators. A further bug in Bob's
emulator was found by Steven Schultz, so we might see a patch to the
emulator coming out soon.
The PUPS volunteers have been hard at work burning and mailing out the
first batch of CDs containing the PUPS Archive, which is now about 520Megs
in size. We also have about 30 people with authorised access into the
on-line PUPS Archive.
Dion at SCO has promised another batch of new UNIX licenses, which I
should receive in the next few days. When I do, I'll post the details here.
That's all for now. Ciao,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon May 11 09:41:19 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805102341.JAA02987(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PUPS Mail List welcome + news
To: jkatz(a)darpanet.net (J. Joseph Max Katz)
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:41:19 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.3.96.980510164539.6267A-100000(a)corinne.cpio.org> from "J. Joseph Max Katz" at "May 10, 98 04:47:31 pm"
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In article by J. Joseph Max Katz:
> Hi,
>
> What's the latest on the 4BSD re-release that Marshal Kirk McKusick
> is doing?
I've sent the list of people interested to Kirk. He's still a bit vague,
but is looking at selling a 4-CD set of all the 4BSD releases for a
price around US$100. That's a ballpark number, and will depend on how many
people want the set: the more the cheaper it will be.
I haven't heard back from him for a week or so. Should I ask him what
he is planning?
Please, none of this is for public consumption just yet.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Bob Supnik <Bob.Supnik(a)digital.com> Tue May 12 05:01:14 1998
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From: Bob Supnik <Bob.Supnik(a)digital.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: vi bug found
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:01:14 -0400
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For those who want vi to work before V2.3c is released, the problem is
in the divide instruction. Look for:
dst = src / src2;
if ((dst >= 077777) || (dst < -0100000)) {
and change the second line to:
if ((dst > 077777) || (dst < -0100000)) {
(Thanks to Steve Schultz for finding this.)
The magtape bootstrap is also broken, that will be fixed in V2.3c as
well.
/Bob Supnik
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>From "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com> Tue May 12 10:55:24 1998
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:55:24 -0700
From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
Subject: Just got my license from SCO...
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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I'm number AU-31.
-------
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Tue May 12 12:21:12 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
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Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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> I don't know what the code above is intended to do, but it's not
> floating point. At the very best, it would indicate the use of the
> floating point registers for straightforward data moves. I stand by
> my assertion that tar doesn't use floating point, neither in the
> Seventh Edition nor elsewhere.
I agree: tar doesn't *use* floating point.
However, from what I can determine the floating point ops in tar are
not some weird way of moving data around, nor is floating point
being used to do long arithmetic as some have suggested.
Compare the first few tar floating point ops with a dummy program
consisting of a single call to scanf:
tar, 106 floating point ops:
0: SETD ;170011
20532: STCFD F0,(R1) ;176011
20562: STF F0,(R1) ;174011
22406: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22410: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
22460: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22462: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
22620: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22622: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
24124: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
24130: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
26616: LDF F0,#56200 ;172427 056200
26622: STF F0,177732(R5) ;174065 177732
etc.
scanf, 106 floating point ops:
000000: SETD ;170011
002764: STCFD F0,(R1) ;176011
003014: STF F0,(R1) ;174011
004346: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
004350: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
004420: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
004422: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
004560: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
004562: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
004750: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
004754: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
006410: LDF F0,#56200 ;172427 056200
006414: STF F0,177732(R5) ;174065 177732
So it would appear that whatever floating point there is in tar comes
from library routines which have been linked in, but which tar does
not use.
"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras."
Ed
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu May 14 10:59:28 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805140059.KAA08059(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: More licenses from SCO
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:59:28 +1000 (EST)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
I've received some more UNIX source licenses from SCO. The new licencees are:
Craig Bevans, Brian Chase, Efton Collins, Peter Collinson,
David Galloway, Jay Jaeger, Dieter Muller, Daniel Seagraves,
Jason Stevens, Warren Toomey, Christopher Vance, Norman Wilson,
Thomas Zenker.
As always, if you are interested in obtaining access to the on-line PUPS
Archive, or a copy of it on some form of media (CD, tape etc.), then
please mail your request to pupsarchive(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au. You will
receive an automated response with more details.
The PUPS Volunteers have sent out about 6 CDs so far, and one tape(?).
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu May 14 11:03:12 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805140103.LAA08094(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More licenses from SCO
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:03:12 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199805140059.KAA08059(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "May 14, 98 10:59:28 am"
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In article by Warren Toomey:
> I've received some more UNIX source licenses from SCO. The new licencees are:
I forgot to say: Dion gave me license number AU-0, at the behest of
the members of the PUPS mailing list. Thanks all!!
Warren
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>From Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se> Mon May 18 19:54:06 1998
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From: Beastly Wolf <beast(a)lintilla2.df.lth.se>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Exploited by spammers.
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Hi all!
I want to tell you all how sorry I am for spamming occuring from this site.
Due to several reasons it was possible to exploit the lintilla service
machines.
We hope we have put an end to it now (it was not an easy task since it
involved *cringe* beurocracy).
If anybody receives spams from lintilla.df.lth.se or lintilla2.df.lth.se
from now on please let me know! It should not happen but....
The lintilla services machines does not approve to spam and we try to
fight back as hard as we are able.
Internet used to be a happy place where people helped eachother and where
life was simple and good. Sometimes I long for those days now gone. =(
Today it seems that greed and abuse is the rule...
Again, sorry for the inconvenience that spamming from this site has caused!
Sincerely yours:
Lars Persson, the Lintilla services.
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>From "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> Tue May 19 12:50:09 1998
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From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org>
To: "PDP Unix Preservation" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Question regarding tape drive interface
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:50:09 -0700
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OK, this may not be *exactly* the right place to ask this.....
I'm in the process of acquiring a PDP-11/34, on which I intend to run *some* flavor of UNIX. I also have a Cipher F-880 tape drive, which I would like to interface with the PDP-11. Reading between the lines of several pages on the Web, it seems it should be possible to do this, but which module is required? And does that prescribe the version of UNIX I'll be able to run? Thanks in advance for any experience you can share!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?
Ian King <iking(a)KillTheWabbit.org> No opinions but my own. So there.
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Wed May 20 05:33:00 1998
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Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Question regarding tape drive interface
In-Reply-To: <199805190148.SAA10957(a)forbin.killthewabbit.org>
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In message <199805190148.SAA10957(a)forbin.killthewabbit.org>, Ian King
<iking(a)killthewabbit.org> writes
>OK, this may not be *exactly* the right place to ask this.....
>
>I'm in the process of acquiring a PDP-11/34, on which I intend to run *some*
>flavor of UNIX. I also have a Cipher F-880 tape drive, which I would like to
>interface with the PDP-11. Reading between the lines of several pages on the
>Web, it seems it should be possible to do this, but which module is required?
>And does that prescribe the version of UNIX I'll be able to run? Thanks in
>advance for any experience you can share!
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----------------------------------
>24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?
>Ian King <iking(a)KillTheWabbit.org> No opinions but my own. So there.
Wotcher,
You'll need a UNIBUS TS11 card, I don't know the number for this but it
should be relatively easy to get hold of. BSD2 certainly supports this.
Cheers
Robin
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri May 29 13:12:02 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805290312.NAA01694(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: More UNIX Licenses
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:12:02 +1000 (EST)
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I've just received licenses from SCO for Don Cruickshank and Hartmut Brandt.
Congrats, you two!
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Jun 18 12:54:57 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199806180254.MAA04029(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More UNIX Licenses
To: djenner(a)halcyon.com
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:54:57 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <35887E29.828B78E2(a)halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at "Jun 17, 98 07:40:41 pm"
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In article by David C. Jenner:
> Warren,
>
> I haven't received any PUPS mailing list since this message.
> (May 28th). Are things that slow?
It's been quiet! However, I'll send in a test message to wake everybody up :-)
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Mon Jul 6 13:58:23 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199807060358.NAA07988(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: More SCO Licenses + Software Tools
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:58:23 +1000 (EST)
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All,
The following people now have SCO source licenses for ancient Unix:
Bruce Robertson, Erick Delios, Kelwin Wylie, Kirsten McIntyre, Matthew Crosby
That brings the numbering scheme up to AU-50, but in fact there are 52
SCO source licenses for ancient Unix.
The mailing list has been pretty quiet. Hope you're all well. The only
news I have is that Norman Wilson is still slowly scanning in the manuals
from 2nd to 5th Edition. He now has most (all?) of 5th edition scanned in.
I haven't heard from Kirk McKusick, but he's still planning to sell a 4CD
set of all the 4BSD releases from CSRG. The cost is still expected to be
around US$100, but if he gets flooded with requests, this may come down.
Software Tools
--------------
I got some mail last week from Deborah Scherrer:
I was one of the people who created the Software
Tools project and Software Tools Users Group (Peter Salus
mentioned us in his book). If you're interested, you might
want to include the Software Tools tapes in your collection.
She suggested that I contact Barbera Chase, which I did.
Barbera (bc(a)mrdata.netcetera.com) then wrote:
Sorry, we don't actually have any of the files online anymore, nor do we
have access to a tape drive. What we have are 9-track tapes, probably in
1600bpi. There are three versions of the tools for PDP machines, one for
RSX-11 and two for "generic" Unix. I still happen to have several copies
of each, and will be glad to send them to you. Just let me know where to
send them, and if you happen to have a shipping account number that would
be even better ;-)
I don't know Barbera's geographic location. However, would anybody in the
US be prepared to read these tapes for us, and pass the contents to me for
inclusion in the PUPS Archive??!
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Jul 6 14:18:28 1998
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Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:48:28 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More SCO Licenses + Software Tools
References: <199807060358.NAA07988(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
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On Monday, 6 July 1998 at 13:58:23 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Software Tools
> --------------
>
> I got some mail last week from Deborah Scherrer:
> I was one of the people who created the Software
> Tools project and Software Tools Users Group (Peter Salus
> mentioned us in his book). If you're interested, you might
> want to include the Software Tools tapes in your collection.
>
> She suggested that I contact Barbera Chase, which I did.
> Barbera (bc(a)mrdata.netcetera.com) then wrote:
> Sorry, we don't actually have any of the files online anymore, nor do we
> have access to a tape drive. What we have are 9-track tapes, probably in
> 1600bpi. There are three versions of the tools for PDP machines, one for
> RSX-11 and two for "generic" Unix. I still happen to have several copies
> of each, and will be glad to send them to you. Just let me know where to
> send them, and if you happen to have a shipping account number that would
> be even better ;-)
>
> I don't know Barbera's geographic location. However, would anybody in the
> US be prepared to read these tapes for us, and pass the contents to me for
> inclusion in the PUPS Archive??!
Registrant:
Netcetera, Inc. (NETCETERA-DOM)
11950 Anderson Valley Way
P.O. Box 939
Boonville, CA 95415
Domain Name: NETCETERA.COM
Administrative Contact:
Chase, Barbara L. (BC309) bc(a)NETCETERA.COM
707-895-2691
Greg
--
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
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>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Tue Jul 7 05:15:30 1998
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CC: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: More SCO Licenses + Software Tools
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I think having these in the archives would be great. I used the
Software Tools extensively back in the late 70's and early 80's.
I wish I could read the tapes in, but I'm still working on a tape
drive for an 11/73. (see separate mail.)
Dave
Greg Lehey wrote:
>
> On Monday, 6 July 1998 at 13:58:23 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> > Software Tools
> > --------------
> >
> > I got some mail last week from Deborah Scherrer:
> > I was one of the people who created the Software
> > Tools project and Software Tools Users Group (Peter Salus
> > mentioned us in his book). If you're interested, you might
> > want to include the Software Tools tapes in your collection.
> >
> > She suggested that I contact Barbera Chase, which I did.
> > Barbera (bc(a)mrdata.netcetera.com) then wrote:
> > Sorry, we don't actually have any of the files online anymore, nor do we
> > have access to a tape drive. What we have are 9-track tapes, probably in
> > 1600bpi. There are three versions of the tools for PDP machines, one for
> > RSX-11 and two for "generic" Unix. I still happen to have several copies
> > of each, and will be glad to send them to you. Just let me know where to
> > send them, and if you happen to have a shipping account number that would
> > be even better ;-)
> >
> > I don't know Barbera's geographic location. However, would anybody in the
> > US be prepared to read these tapes for us, and pass the contents to me for
> > inclusion in the PUPS Archive??!
>
> Registrant:
> Netcetera, Inc. (NETCETERA-DOM)
> 11950 Anderson Valley Way
> P.O. Box 939
> Boonville, CA 95415
>
> Domain Name: NETCETERA.COM
>
> Administrative Contact:
> Chase, Barbara L. (BC309) bc(a)NETCETERA.COM
> 707-895-2691
>
> Greg
> --
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers
> finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
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>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Tue Jul 7 05:30:18 1998
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From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
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To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Generating 2.11BSD boot tape
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There hasn't been much traffic here for a while, so maybe I can stir
things up a bit.
I recently acquired a fabulous 9-track tape drive, an M4 9914, which
has both a SCSI and a Pertec interface. This drive is so smart I
spent a couple of hours playing with it without it being hooked up to
any computer.
What's nice is that I can presumably get around the "high-cost"
bottleneck of using a tape drive on both a PDP-11 and Intel
machines: use the SCSI interface on the PC where the interface is
cheap (already exists) and use the Pertec interface on the -11 where
the interface is cheap (already exists). Using the opposite interface
on each machine could run up to a total of $2000 US.
So, what I want to do is read my PUPS archive CD-ROM on an Intel
machine and write appropriate 9-track tapes for the -11. The stumbling
block seems to be software on the Intel side. SCSI software packages
for MS-DOS or Windows 3.1/95/98/NT run $600, $800, even $1500US.
There must be a way of doing a CD-to-Tape generation with a simple
C-language program using one of the "free" OSes: Linux, FreeBSD,
SCO UnixWare, etc.
If anyone has any experience or ideas with this, I would appreciate
your input. It would be very easy for me to install and use one of
these OSs on a spare 486 I have. The question is, which is the most
likely to support SCSI on 9-track tape.
Thanks,
Dave
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: djenner(a)halcyon.com, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au,
PDP Unix Preservation <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Which PC UNIX for old SCSI tape drive? (was: Generating 2.11BSD boot tape)
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On Monday, 6 July 1998 at 12:30:18 -0700, David C. Jenner wrote:
> There hasn't been much traffic here for a while, so maybe I can stir
> things up a bit.
>
> I recently acquired a fabulous 9-track tape drive, an M4 9914, which
> has both a SCSI and a Pertec interface. This drive is so smart I
> spent a couple of hours playing with it without it being hooked up to
> any computer.
>
> What's nice is that I can presumably get around the "high-cost"
> bottleneck of using a tape drive on both a PDP-11 and Intel
> machines: use the SCSI interface on the PC where the interface is
> cheap (already exists) and use the Pertec interface on the -11 where
> the interface is cheap (already exists). Using the opposite interface
> on each machine could run up to a total of $2000 US.
>
> So, what I want to do is read my PUPS archive CD-ROM on an Intel
> machine and write appropriate 9-track tapes for the -11. The stumbling
> block seems to be software on the Intel side. SCSI software packages
> for MS-DOS or Windows 3.1/95/98/NT run $600, $800, even $1500US.
> There must be a way of doing a CD-to-Tape generation with a simple
> C-language program using one of the "free" OSes: Linux, FreeBSD,
> SCO UnixWare, etc.
Sure, that's the obvious way to go.
> If anyone has any experience or ideas with this, I would appreciate
> your input. It would be very easy for me to install and use one of
> these OSs on a spare 486 I have. The question is, which is the most
> likely to support SCSI on 9-track tape.
I think you'll find that they all support SCSI. I'd recommend FreeBSD
because I'm involved with it and because it's the closest to 2.11BSD.
Next, I'd recommend Linux, because you have the sources. You could
have trouble with UnixWare, in which case there wouldn't be much you
could do about it. If you do have any problems with FreeBSD, let me
know and I'll see what I can do.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
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>From Kevin Murrell <kevin(a)xpuppy.demon.co.uk> Tue Jul 7 16:20:53 1998
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From: Kevin Murrell <kevin(a)xpuppy.demon.co.uk>
To: "'PDP Unix Preservation'" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: DEC in the UK and Dilog
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:20:53 +0100
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Can anyone shed any light on a company called Dilog. Having acquired two Dilog machines they appear to actually both be PDP-11s. Dilog seemed to have produced DEC compatible hardware for the UK market.
In particular the smaller machine was known as a Vixen. This would appear to be a PDP-11/73 with the DEC M8192 processor card. Indeed the processor card is the only actual DEC product. Colleagues that used this machine described it as the portable PDP-11 - however we are not talking laptop here :)
The 'Vixen' has a Dilog disk controller with a Seagate ST251 attached. The machine is currently running DSM-11 and recognises the drive as a RA81.
I hope to produce a list relating the Dilog part numbers to original DEC part numbers.
Any help or suggestions gratefully received.
Kevin Murrell
Birmingham, England.
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Jul 8 01:44:14 1998
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Subject: Newbie Alert: Which is a ``best'' pdp-11 to look for?????
In-Reply-To: <199807060358.NAA07988(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Jul 6, 98 01:58:23 pm"
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:44:14 -0400 (EDT)
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> All,
> The following people now have SCO source licenses for ancient Unix:
Neato.... I am beginning to think it might be a fun thing to do.
As the newbie aboard, what pdp-11, vax, or other dec machine would be
one to shoot for. Some are largish beasts, but for the Joe Homehobby
type that wants to run one in the basement, what would be a reasonable
combination of parts or units (or a whole machine) to look for?
Occasionally machines float up from the bilges here in central NC, USA,
and usually they wind up dumpster fodder. Rather than see that happen,
if I had a choice, what should I be looking for? For convenience, if
there was something that would fit in half a relay rack or so, that
might be nice. Also, if it could run with standard cartridge tapes
(DC300/450/600) sized things, that would be advantageous, since I have
a number of those things and nil reel to reel drives.
> I haven't heard from Kirk McKusick, but he's still planning to sell a 4CD
> set of all the 4BSD releases from CSRG. The cost is still expected to be
> around US$100, but if he gets flooded with requests, this may come down.
That would be something worthwhile to have, just for posterity.
> Software Tools
> --------------
......
> I don't know Barbera's geographic location. However, would anybody in the
> US be prepared to read these tapes for us, and pass the contents to me for
> inclusion in the PUPS Archive??!
I just checked our folks.... nil reel-to-reel drives anymore..... shucks.
One of the technical high schools has the only one left here in NC.
Bob Keys
p.s. Are there any USA NC folks on the list, or just me?
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Jul 8 10:14:47 1998
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From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199807080014.RAA05047(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: kevin(a)xpuppy.demon.co.uk, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: DEC in the UK and Dilog
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Hi -
> From: Kevin Murrell <kevin(a)xpuppy.demon.co.uk>
Linebreaks please? 72-80 columns would be nice ;)
> Can anyone shed any light on a company called Dilog.
Not sure if they're still in the DEC business but at one time they
were one of the major 3rd party vendors making Qbus and Unibus
controllers.
> Having acquired two Dilog machines they appear to actually both be PDP-11s.
> Dilog seemed to have produced DEC compatible hardware for the UK market.
I never heard of Dilog making entire systems. You'd typically buy
the box from DEC (but without any controllers or as few as you could
order a system from DEC with) and then stuff it with Emulex or Dilog
adaptors.
> In particular the smaller machine was known as a Vixen.
Sounds like an OEM somewhere was buying bare systems from DEC and
placing Dilog cards in them.
> This would appear to be a PDP-11/73 with the DEC M8192 processor card.
Indeed it is.
> Indeed the processor card is the only actual DEC product.
> Colleagues that used this machine described it as the portable PDP-11 -
>however we are not talking laptop here :)
What are the dimensions? It likely is a BA-23 box. "Transportable"
would be appropriate - unless you've a *huge* (and sturdy) lap ;)
> The 'Vixen' has a Dilog disk controller with a Seagate ST251 attached.
> The machine is currently running DSM-11 and recognises the drive as a RA81.
> I hope to produce a list relating the Dilog part numbers to original DEC
> part numbers.
It was/is common for controller cards to call anything over ~150mb
an 'ra81' just to give the software a diskid it knew about.
On the various Dilog cards you should find (either on the spine/handles
or the card's front/back) a name. Something like "DQ696" (a disk
controller) or "DQ132" (tape controller). If you can find any numbers
at all let us know and we can probably id them for you.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
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Hi, Warren.
On May 10, 18:26, Warren Toomey wrote:
> > For the first time in umpteen years, I need to make a bootable 7th
> > Edition system disk on an RL02...
> > How many blocks should I leave for swap? Or, to put it another way,
> > what magic number pair would people suggest I put in the prototype file
> > for the number of blocks and number of inodes?
>
> The best & only answer here is to consult to xxconf file used to generate
> the 7th Edition kernel, as this will tell you how much swap to reserve.
I should have thought of that! Steven told me the same thing last night.
> Vanilla V7 didn't come with RL02 support, so all I can give you are the
> parameters used for the RL02 images I have here with V7:
>
> rl
> tm
> root rl 0
> swap rl 0
> swplo 18000
> nswap 2480
That looks the same as mine.
> In other words, the filesystem should be no bigger than 18,000 blocks.
I had a look in the superblock on a couple of bootable RL02s, and found
18,000.
> Distribution V7 had roughly 2,600 files & directories. If I had to
> set a value, I'd choose 5,000 or so.
I knew about using digits for the blocks instead of a proto file, but I
thought it might be safer to specify the number for the inodes. I tried to
figure it out from the results of icheck but I'm much happier with your
suggestion.
I'll let you know how I get on. The reason to do this today is two-fold:
One of my packs is getting flaky, so I want to make a good copy, with
a clean install (most of mine have lots of localised junk), and
our department has an Open Day on Wednesday, and I've been coerced
into running a display of old machines. The 11T23 is the easiest PDP
for me to move there.
Thanks for the help!
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Sun May 10 21:48:23 1998
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From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
cc: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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On Thu, 7 May 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 20:45:41 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
> > Using a new approach, I have re-counted the number of floating point
> > operations for the utilities contained in Unix's bin directory.
> > According to my results, many important 7th Edition programs such as
> > adb, awk and tar make heavy use of floating point on the PDP-11.
>
> I'll believe this when you pinpoint the instructions.
I wouldn't be *that* surprised by these results. For instance, I believe
that longs are implemented with FP. And I wouldn't be surprised if a few
FP ops were sneaked in to compute some stuff that aren't immediately
appearant.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon May 11 02:49:44 1998
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Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199805101649.JAA00593(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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Hi -
> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
> I wouldn't be *that* surprised by these results. For instance, I believe
> that longs are implemented with FP. And I wouldn't be surprised if a few
> FP ops were sneaked in to compute some stuff that aren't immediately
> appearant.
It is true that _some_ long arithmetic is done using FP. The long
divide is done that way (at least in 2BSD, I've not looked at V7 yet)
because it is much much less code to convert the operands to FP, do
the divide, and then convert the result back (the alternative is
about two pages of code). Different CPUs handle a fault during a
double word push to the stack differently, this was a real difficult
problem to track down and fix. If during the FP instruction
"movfi fr0,-(sp)" the stackpointer becomes invalid some PDP-11 CPUs
handle the fault differently. See 2.11BSD update #150 for the details.
The C compiler itself did NOT generate FP unless the operands were
explicitly FP (float or double). Most C code was 'int' or 'char *'
and no FP code was needed or used for that.
FP instructions would be clustered together where the libc.a routines
were loaded. The 'ldiv' and 'lrem' routines would have several FP
instructions close to each other but the rest of the program would
have very few. A program such as 'adb' would have a few FP instructions
in the routines that display the FP registers. Oh - there's a bug
dating back to V7 in adb. The FP registers for a traced/running
process do not display correctly (using adb on a core file works fine).
Fixed in 2.11 (see update #405) ;-)
Steven Schultz
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On May 9, 21:43, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> I need to make a bootable 7th Edition system disk on an RL02...
and then thought, "I wonder if there's some easy way to tell what numbers
were used on an existing system disk, if the prototype file no longer
exists?"
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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>From Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> Sun May 10 18:17:06 1998
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From: Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com>
To: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
Cc: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
In-Reply-To: <199805080414.AAA28438(a)renoir.op.net>
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On Fri, 8 May 1998, Ed G. wrote:
> > I'll believe this when you pinpoint the instructions.
>
> Your skepticism spurred me to examine a Unix utility in depth to see
> whether my results hold up. They do.
Is it possible that you're mistakenly disassembling embedded data as if it
were code? And perhaps that those data items contain arrangements of byte
values which translate to FP instructions?
-brian.
---
Brian "JARAI" Chase | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ | VAXZilla LIVES!!!
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sun May 10 18:26:23 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805100826.SAA02363(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: mkfs on an RL02
To: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 18:26:23 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <9805092143.ZM1440(a)indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from Pete Turnbull at "May 9, 98 08:43:26 pm"
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In article by Pete Turnbull:
> I'm looking for some advice...
>
> For the first time in umpteen years, I need to make a bootable 7th Edition
> system disk on an RL02 that previously had some other O/S on it. This disk
> has to have the swap space, as well. The machine it will be used on has
> 256K bytes RAM.
>
> How many blocks should I leave for swap? Or, to put it another way, what
> magic number pair would people suggest I put in the prototype file for the
> number of blocks and number of inodes?
The best & only answer here is to consult to xxconf file used to generate
the 7th Edition kernel, as this will tell you how much swap to reserve.
Vanilla V7 didn't come with RL02 support, so all I can give you are the
parameters used for the RL02 images I have here with V7:
rl
tm
root rl 0
swap rl 0
swplo 18000
nswap 2480
In other words, the filesystem should be no bigger than 18,000 blocks.
The mkfs manual says:
If the prototype file cannot be opened and its name con-
sists of a string of digits, mkfs builds a file system
with a single empty directory on it. The size of the file
system is the value of proto interpreted as a decimal num-
ber. The number of i-nodes is calculated as a function of
the filsystem size. The boot program is left uninitial-
ized.
Distribution V7 had roughly 2,600 files & directories. If I had to
set a value, I'd choose 5,000 or so.
Hope this helps,
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sun May 10 18:27:43 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805100827.SAA02382(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: mkfs on an RL02
To: pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 18:27:43 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <9805092146.ZM1447(a)indy.dunnington.york.ac.uk> from Pete Turnbull at "May 9, 98 08:46:36 pm"
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In article by Pete Turnbull:
> On May 9, 21:43, Pete Turnbull wrote:
> > I need to make a bootable 7th Edition system disk on an RL02...
>
> and then thought, "I wonder if there's some easy way to tell what numbers
> were used on an existing system disk, if the prototype file no longer
> exists?"
You'd have to disassemble the kernel. Alternatively, consult the
size of the free block list on the disk's image.
Warren
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I'm looking for some advice...
For the first time in umpteen years, I need to make a bootable 7th Edition
system disk on an RL02 that previously had some other O/S on it. This disk
has to have the swap space, as well. The machine it will be used on has
256K bytes RAM.
How many blocks should I leave for swap? Or, to put it another way, what
magic number pair would people suggest I put in the prototype file for the
number of blocks and number of inodes?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
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> On Fri, 8 May 1998, Robert D. Keys wrote:
>>> On Thu, 7 May 1998 at 9:05:02 -0400, Robert D. Keys wrote:
>>>> I emailed him about the possibility of recreating the roff sources,
>>>> an I will probably wind up doing that. Then we will have a working
>>>> set of sources for clean copy.
>>>
>>> Great idea. Keep us posted.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>
>> I have the intro and first few manpages of section 1 done so far.
>> Maybe a week or so and then if someone will proof them. I will
>> port them in original roff source, and then make a troff set.
>> Dennis was wanting someone to tackle an html version. Alas, my
>> html is not so good.
>>
> It shouldn't be that hard to make HTML directly from the roff source (I
> could probably be persuaded to do something like this, given the roff
> source first of course!)
Or use programs written already to do that, like RosettaMan (at least
I still call it that, the author changed its name). Here's a blurb
from its announcement.
:: PolyglotMan (nee RosettaMan) is a filter for UNIX manual pages. It
:: takes as input man pages for a variety of UNIX flavors and produces as
:: output a variety of file formats. Currently PolyglotMan accepts man
:: pages from the following flavors of UNIX: Hewlett-Packard HP-UX, AT&T
:: System V, SunOS, Sun Solaris, OSF/1, DEC Ultrix, SGI IRIX, Linux, SCO,
:: FreeBSD; and produces output for the following formats: printable
:: ASCII only (stripping page headers and footers), section and
:: subsection headers only, TkMan, [tn]roff, RTF, SGML (soon--I finally
:: found a DTD), HTML, MIME, LaTeX, LaTeX 2e, Perl 5's pod. Previously
:: <I>PolyglotMan</I> required pages to be formatted by nroff prior to
:: its processing; with version 3.0, it prefers [tn]roff source and
:: usually can produce results that are better yet.
::
:: PolyglotMan improves upon other man page filters in several ways: (1) its
:: analysis recognizes the structural pieces of man pages, enabling high
:: quality output, (2) its modular structure permits easy augmentation of
:: output formats, (3) it accepts man pages formatted with the variant
:: macros of many different flavors of UNIX, and (4) it doesn't require
:: modification of or cooperation with any other program.
:: The home location for PolyglotMan is ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:
:: /ucb/people/phelps/tcltk/rman.tar.Z (this is a softlink to the latest,
:: numbered version). If you discover a bug and you obtained PolyglotMan
:: at some other site, first grab it from this one to see if the problem
:: has been fixed.
This is only for man pages, but probably could take the papers in ms
format and give a rough translation, or hack up polyglotman some to do
ms as well..
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Sun May 10 02:04:55 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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Subject: Visible Front End-advice?
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I'd like to write a visible front end for Bob's emulator, but I'm not
sure how to go about doing it. What I'd like is another window that
shows the state of the emulator--PC, SP, MMR etc.--in real time.
Any suggestions/ideas?
TIA
Ed
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Mahlzeit
The setup looks more complicated than the supnik emulator. So, I'll
look tomorrow. What I have noticed is, that there is bsdi and freeBSD
mentioned in p11conf but not linux. Does it require a BSD?
Mahlzeit
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
insanity inside
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu May 7 09:04:16 1998
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:34:16 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: First edition Unix manuals
References: <199805061501.QAA08913(a)todday.aiai.ed.ac.uk>
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On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 16:01:21 +0100, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> In case other people haven't seen this, Dennis Ritchie has (scanned)
> versions of these at:
>
> http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/~dmr
Somebody else posted this a few days ago. Does anybody know how to
view them? They're in .gif format, and xv only shows me the first
page.
Greg
--
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu May 7 10:08:49 1998
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Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:38:49 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: m(a)mbsks.franken.de, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Using P11 emulator (was 2.11BSD installation problems)
References: <199805060638.QAA02895(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> <199805062043.GAA03625(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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In-Reply-To: <199805062043.GAA03625(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>; from Warren Toomey on Thu, May 07, 1998 at 06:43:56AM +1000
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On Thu, 7 May 1998 at 6:43:56 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Matthias,
> Here are some instructions on getting that RP disk image working
> with the Begemot P11 2.3 emulator. These should supplement Greg's email.
Hey, I thought you were in freezing Tasmania :-)
> Running the 2.11BSD RP disk image on the P11 Emulator
>
> Ok, here's how I got P11-2.3 running. Firstly, I extracted the source code
> for P11 from the tarball, and built the emulator in the extracted emu
> directory. Note: you need lots of virtual memory to build instab.o.
>
> With p11 built, I went into ../run, and copied the following files here:
>
> total 16
> -rw------- 1 root wheel 1562 Apr 22 19:56 mon.help
> -rw------- 1 root wheel 648 Apr 22 19:55 p11conf
> -rw------- 1 root wheel 4096 Dec 12 1994 qna.rom
> -rw------- 1 root wheel 512 Apr 22 19:41 rp.boot
>
> All except p11conf came from ../emu. I had a hard time getting the p11conf
> configuration file working, what with the cpp path etc. So I basically made
> a p11conf file which doesn't use any #defines. Here it is:
>
>
> libdir = .
> ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000
> end
> ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000
> 0 /usr/local/src/RP_211bsd_root 12
> end
> ctrl kl
> 017777560 060 064 4 ../emu/IOProgs/tty_net -7 -t 10002
> 017776500 0300 0304 4 ../emu/IOProgs/tty_net -7 -t 10003
> end
> ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot
> end
> ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4
> end
> ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5
> end
>
> Note that the emulated RP disk image is at /usr/local/src/RP_211bsd_root.
> The number 12 after this is arbitrary, I have no idea what it does.
>
> Now, to run the emulator using the p11conf above from the run directory,
> do ../emu/p11 -d &. You can run it in the background as it doesn't require
> any keyboard interaction. Then telnet localhost 10002, and hit Return a few
> times. You will see:
In fact, you can use any port from 10000 to 10003. They map to
/dev/console and /dev/ttyl1 through /dev/ttyl3 (though for some reason
/etc/ttys doesn't contain entries for the latter two).
>> telnet localhost 10002
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> Connected to localhost.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> -----
> <---- Hit Return once or twice here
> : xp(0,0,0)unix
> Boot: bootdev=05000 bootcsr=0176700
>
> 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998
> root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON
>
> attaching lo0
>
> phys mem = 2097152
> avail mem = 1668352
> user mem = 307200
>
> January 8 08:25:02 init: configure system
>
> lp 0 csr 177514 vector 200 attached
> rl 0 csr 174400 vector 160 attached
> tm 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached
> xp 0 csr 176700 vector 254 attached
> cn 1 csr 176500 vector 300 attached
> cn 2 csr 176510 vector 310 skipped: No CSR.
> cn 3 csr 176520 vector 320 skipped: No CSR.
> cn 4 csr 176530 vector 330 skipped: No CSR.
> erase, kill ^U, intr ^C
> #
>
> That's it!!
Well, no, at this point you're in single-user mode. To continue,
enter ^D:
# Fast boot ... skipping disk checks
checking quotas: done.
Assuming NETWORKING system ...
add host 192.109.197.211: gateway 127.1
add net default: gateway freebie.lemis.com
starting system logger
preserving editor files
clearing /tmp
standard daemons: update cron accounting.
starting network daemons: inetd rwhod printer.
starting local daemons:.
Wed May 6 10:45:41 CST 1998
May 6 10:45:42 pdp11 init: kernel security level changed from 0 to 1
2.11 BSD UNIX (pdp11.lemis.com) (console)
login:
I've forgotten what the standard password on root is; I fear it has
*not* been removed. It could be 'begemot' or 'begemot1'. To change
it, you will need to rebuild passwd, which will not work otherwise.
Do that in /usr/src/bin/passwd. If you have trouble, I can send you a
passwd binary.
Greg
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu May 7 10:16:40 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Matthias Bruestle <m(a)mbsks.franken.de>, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Using P11 emulator (was 2.11BSD installation problems)
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On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 23:45:58 +0200, Matthias Bruestle wrote:
> Mahlzeit
Mahlzeit (*r�lps*)
> The setup looks more complicated than the supnik emulator. So, I'll
> look tomorrow. What I have noticed is, that there is bsdi and freeBSD
> mentioned in p11conf but not linux. Does it require a BSD?
Yes, I think so. The access to the machine goes via the tunnel
driver, and that would need to be completed for Linux. The authors
don't use Linux, so they haven't done the work. They don't use BSD/OS
much any more, so if you are going to install one, FreeBSD is the
obvious choice, especially considering the price differential.
Of course, any old UNIX user should be using BSD anyway, especially if
you want to emulate older BSDs :-)
Greg
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Thu May 7 10:45:41 1998
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From: "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net>
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Subject: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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Using a new approach, I have re-counted the number of floating point
operations for the utilities contained in Unix's bin directory.
According to my results, many important 7th Edition programs such as
adb, awk and tar make heavy use of floating point on the PDP-11.
As you know, my first approach was to simple-mindedly examine every
word of a given program's disk image to come up with an estimate of
the number of floating point operations used by the program.
I would like to thank those who pointed out the shortcoming of this
approach and offered valuable advice on how to achieve my aim of
accurate counts. Based on these comments, I decided to create a
full fledged disassembler for the PDP-11.
I have tested my program and believe it produces an exact count of
all floating point operations.
In case you're interested in how my initial estimates compare with
the new, precise counts, I list those data below as well.
New Approach.
uv7 bin directory
Programs using 10 or more floating point ops.
graph 674
awk 657
spline 389
sa 300
prof 260
iostat 243
t450 222
t300 222
t300s 212
vplot 187
tek 185
adb 128
units 118
random 116
xsend 106
xget 106
tsort 106
tar 106
refer 106
quot 106
nroff 88
factor 88
ac 88
primes 78
poke6 62
lex 51
roff 32
as 18
Old Approach.
uv7 bin directory
Programs using 100 or more floating point ops.
awk 2540
refer 1644
xsend 1326
tbl 1315
graph 1300
xget 1288
adb 1152
eqn 918
enroll 915
neqn 874
nroff 841
make 822
spline 812
yacc 789
sa 714
tar 706
lex 628
tek 618
prof 608
t300s 604
dc 601
vplot 582
iostat 579
t300 576
t450 574
em 530
bc 509
ratfor 474
quot 452
tsort 407
sh 381
expr 380
units 379
ac 365
sort 358
ps 327
restor 323
rmail 321
ed 321
mail 321
ptx 320
egrep 313
ls 310
ps.old 306
m4 304
random 298
su 296
tp 285
ops 282
cu 282
diff 277
pr 275
poke6 275
sed 267
find 267
dump 261
deroff 255
icheck 251
ls.11 249
ld 246
login 240
cptree 230
passwd 227
login.old 218
cc 210
prep 205
at 203
dumpdir 197
join 196
wc 193
tc 192
nm 191
pstat 190
file 187
pr.old 186
crypt 182
date 181
grep 180
ranlib 174
fgrep 172
ncheck 159
checkeq 157
du 155
who 152
as 152
od 151
look 149
roff 149
ar 146
vpr 144
dd 141
tk 141
time 139
rm 138
cb 134
mv 134
comm 133
newgrp 133
dcheck 132
factor 132
rmdir 125
write 125
primes 124
cmp 121
dfOLD 120
df 120
size 117
v6sh 116
vcopy 113
nice 113
col 110
ln 106
sum 105
clri 104
cat 103
tail 103
sleep 101
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To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 20:45:41 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
> Using a new approach, I have re-counted the number of floating point
> operations for the utilities contained in Unix's bin directory.
> According to my results, many important 7th Edition programs such as
> adb, awk and tar make heavy use of floating point on the PDP-11.
I'll believe this when you pinpoint the instructions.
Greg
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>From Alan Bain <afrb2(a)hermes.cam.ac.uk> Thu May 7 18:55:29 1998
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Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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On Thu, 7 May 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 20:45:41 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
> > Using a new approach, I have re-counted the number of floating point
> > operations for the utilities contained in Unix's bin directory.
> > According to my results, many important 7th Edition programs such as
> > adb, awk and tar make heavy use of floating point on the PDP-11.
>
> I'll believe this when you pinpoint the instructions.
>
According to my paper copy of the UV7 manual, it is possible to run V7 on
a machine with no floating point, and the main problem is when compiling
say numeric code. There's a short section on how to do a build if you
don't have fp (like me on my 11/34). I think the V7 manual may well be
on line; but if not I can do a Xerox of this if it would be useful,
Alan Bain
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu May 7 19:23:06 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Alan Bain <afrb2(a)hermes.cam.ac.uk>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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On Thu, 7 May 1998 at 9:55:29 +0100, Alan Bain wrote:
> On Thu, 7 May 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 20:45:41 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
>>> Using a new approach, I have re-counted the number of floating point
>>> operations for the utilities contained in Unix's bin directory.
>>> According to my results, many important 7th Edition programs such as
>>> adb, awk and tar make heavy use of floating point on the PDP-11.
>>
>> I'll believe this when you pinpoint the instructions.
>>
> According to my paper copy of the UV7 manual, it is possible to run V7 on
> a machine with no floating point, and the main problem is when compiling
> say numeric code. There's a short section on how to do a build if you
> don't have fp (like me on my 11/34). I think the V7 manual may well be
> on line; but if not I can do a Xerox of this if it would be useful,
The Seventh Edition manuals are available in a number of places,
including of course the PUPS archive, but dmr has also put them on the
web at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/index.html.
Greg
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>From "Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu May 7 23:05:02 1998
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Message-Id: <199805071305.JAA02117(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: First edition Unix manuals
In-Reply-To: <19980507083416.B396(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "May 7, 98 08:34:16 am"
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:05:02 -0400 (EDT)
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> On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 16:01:21 +0100, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> > In case other people haven't seen this, Dennis Ritchie has (scanned)
> > versions of these at:
> >
> > http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/~dmr
>
> Somebody else posted this a few days ago. Does anybody know how to
> view them? They're in .gif format, and xv only shows me the first
> page.
>
> Greg
He put up postscript versions, too.
I emailed him about the possibility of recreating the roff sources,
an I will probably wind up doing that. Then we will have a working
set of sources for clean copy.
Bob Keys
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Fri May 8 09:02:36 1998
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On Thu, 7 May 1998 at 9:05:02 -0400, Robert D. Keys wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 16:01:21 +0100, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
>>> In case other people haven't seen this, Dennis Ritchie has (scanned)
>>> versions of these at:
>>>
>>> http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/~dmr
>>
>> Somebody else posted this a few days ago. Does anybody know how to
>> view them? They're in .gif format, and xv only shows me the first
>> page.
>>
>> Greg
>
> He put up postscript versions, too.
I don't see them at
http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/1stEdman.html. Where are they?
> I emailed him about the possibility of recreating the roff sources,
> an I will probably wind up doing that. Then we will have a working
> set of sources for clean copy.
Great idea. Keep us posted.
Greg
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>From "Ed G." <edgee(a)cyberpass.net> Fri May 8 14:14:03 1998
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> I'll believe this when you pinpoint the instructions.
Your skepticism spurred me to examine a Unix utility in depth to see
whether my results hold up. They do.
According to my count, tar uses 106 floating point operations. Here
are the first few. The complete list, tar3.txt, is attached as
well for your perusal. If you'd like to look at the complete
disassembled code for tar, let me know.
[root@oskar uv7]# ../dis/disuv7.pl < tar | grep ';17'
file header: 410 37400 4254 27422 20270 0 0 1
read 16128 bytes
prog string is 16128 bytes
0: SETD ;170011
20532: STCFD F0,(R1) ;176011
20562: STF F0,(R1) ;174011
22406: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22410: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
22460: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22462: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
22620: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22622: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
24124: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
24130: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
26616: LDF F0,#56200 ;172427 056200
I chose tar as an example because it is an important utility and
because it is a relatively heavy user of floating point (as guaged
by the number of floating point ops contained in tar).
The following routines in 7th Edition tar appear to use floating
point:
~_filbuf
~_innum
~atof
~cvt
~ecvt
~fcvt
~gcvt
~isatty
~main
~mktemp
The addresses of these routines, as listed in tar's symbol
table--see attached file symlisttar.txt--correspond to those of the
disassembled floating point ops in tar.
I've learned a lot while responding to the criticisms offered by you
and others on this list. Thank you.
Ed
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[root@oskar uv7]# ../dis/disuv7.pl < tar | grep ';17'
file header: 410 37400 4254 27422 20270 0 0 1
read 16128 bytes
prog string is 16128 bytes
0: SETD ;170011
20532: STCFD F0,(R1) ;176011
20562: STF F0,(R1) ;174011
22406: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22410: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
22460: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22462: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
22620: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
22622: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
24124: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
24130: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
26616: LDF F0,#56200 ;172427 056200
26622: STF F0,177732(R5) ;174065 177732
26676: CLRF 177762(R5) ;170465 177762
26710: LDF F0,177762(R5) ;172465 177762
26714: CMPF F0,177732(R5) ;173465 177732
26720: CFCC ;170000
26724: LDF F0,#41040 ;172427 041040
26730: MULF F0,177762(R5) ;171065 177762
26742: LDCIF F1,R1 ;177101
26744: ADDF F0,F1 ;172001
26746: STF F0,177762(R5) ;174065 177762
27006: LDF F0,177762(R5) ;172465 177762
27012: CMPF F0,177732(R5) ;173465 177732
27016: CFCC ;170000
27022: LDF F0,#41040 ;172427 041040
27026: MULF F0,177762(R5) ;171065 177762
27040: LDCIF F1,R1 ;177101
27042: ADDF F0,F1 ;172001
27044: STF F0,177762(R5) ;174065 177762
27304: CLRF 177762(R5) ;170465 177762
27314: LDF F0,#40200 ;172427 040200
27320: STF F0,177752(R5) ;174065 177752
27324: LDF F0,#40640 ;172427 040640
27330: STF F0,177742(R5) ;174065 177742
27344: LDF F0,177742(R5) ;172465 177742
27350: MULF F0,F0 ;171000
27352: STF F0,177742(R5) ;174065 177742
27366: LDF F0,177752(R5) ;172465 177752
27372: MULF F0,177742(R5) ;171065 177742
27376: STF F0,177752(R5) ;174065 177752
27422: LDF F0,177762(R5) ;172465 177762
27426: DIVF F0,177752(R5) ;174465 177752
27434: LDF F0,177762(R5) ;172465 177762
27440: MULF F0,177752(R5) ;171065 177752
27444: STF F0,177762(R5) ;174065 177762
27462: LDF F0,177762(R5) ;172465 177762
27466: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
27500: STF F0,177762(R5) ;174065 177762
27512: NEGF F0 ;170700
27514: STF F0,177762(R5) ;174065 177762
27520: LDF F0,177762(R5) ;172465 177762
32720: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
32724: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
32764: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
32770: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
33060: CLRF F0 ;170400
33062: CMPF F0,4(R5) ;173465 000004
33066: CFCC ;170000
33100: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
33104: NEGF F0 ;170700
33106: STF F0,4(R5) ;174065 000004
33120: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
33124: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
33136: STF F0,4(R5) ;174065 000004
33146: CLRF F0 ;170400
33150: CMPF F0,177762(R5) ;173465 177762
33154: CFCC ;170000
33160: CLRF F0 ;170400
33162: CMPF F0,4(R5) ;173465 000004
33166: CFCC ;170000
33202: LDF F0,177762(R5) ;172465 177762
33206: DIVF F0,#41040 ;174427 041040
33212: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
33224: STF F0,177752(R5) ;174065 177752
33230: ADDF F0,43662 ;172067 010426
33234: MULF F0,#41040 ;171027 041040
33240: STCFI F0,R0 ;175400
33252: CLRF F0 ;170400
33254: CMPF F0,177762(R5) ;173465 177762
33260: CFCC ;170000
33276: LDF F0,177752(R5) ;172465 177752
33302: STF F0,4(R5) ;174065 000004
33310: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
33314: MULF F0,#41040 ;171027 041040
33320: STF F0,177752(R5) ;174065 177752
33324: CMPF F0,#40200 ;173427 040200
33330: CFCC ;170000
33414: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
33420: MULF F0,#41040 ;171027 041040
33424: STF F0,4(R5) ;174065 000004
33436: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
33442: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
33454: STF F0,4(R5) ;174065 000004
33460: LDF F0,177752(R5) ;172465 177752
33464: STCFI F0,R0 ;175400
33666: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
33672: STEXP F0,R0 ;175000
33700: LDEXP F0,R0 ;176400
33702: CFCC ;170000
33710: LDF F0,43672 ;172467 007756
33716: LDF F0,43672 ;172467 007750
33722: NEGF F0 ;170700
34112: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
34116: MODF F0,#40200 ;171427 040200
34122: STF F1,@14(R5) ;174175 000014
[root@oskar uv7]#
--Message-Boundary-293
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Text from file 'symlisttar.txt'
~main~usage~dorep~endtape=003004
~getdir~passtap=003414
~putfile=003566
~doxtrac=005656
~dotable=006776
~putempt=007126
~longt~pmode~select~checkdi=007506
~onintr~onquit~onhup~onterm~tomodes=010132
~checksu=010344
~checkw~respons=010560
~checkup=010750
~done~prefix~getwdir=011302
~lookup~bsrch~cmp~readtap=012704
~writeta=013350
~backtap=013644
~flushta=014044
~copy~freopen=014146
~fseek~rewind~fread~fwrite~system~fopen~scanf~fscanf~sscanf~_doscan=016056
~_innum~_instr~_getccl=021242
~fprintf=021376
~printf~sprintf=021532
~ungetc~_filbuf=022002
~gcvt~_strout=024570
~_flsbuf=025130
~fflush~_cleanu=025702
~fclose~_endope=026072
~create~_findio=026516
~atof~atoi~ctime~localti=027716
~sunday~gmtime~asctime=031220
~dysize~ct_numb=031560
~malloc~free~realloc=032422
~ecvt~fcvt~cvt~isatty~mktemp~stty~gtty~strcat~strcmp~strcpy
--Message-Boundary-293--
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Fri May 8 20:16:15 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: edgee(a)cyberpass.net
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
References: <199805070045.UAA04653(a)renoir.op.net>; <19980507110724.M396(a)freebie.lemis.com> <199805080414.AAA28438(a)renoir.op.net>
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On Fri, 8 May 1998 at 0:14:03 -0400, Ed G. wrote:
Content-Description: Mail message body
>> I'll believe this when you pinpoint the instructions.
>
> Your skepticism spurred me to examine a Unix utility in depth to see
> whether my results hold up. They do.
>
> According to my count, tar uses 106 floating point operations. Here
> are the first few. The complete list, tar3.txt, is attached as
> well for your perusal. If you'd like to look at the complete
> disassembled code for tar, let me know.
>
> [root@oskar uv7]# ../dis/disuv7.pl < tar | grep ';17'
> file header: 410 37400 4254 27422 20270 0 0 1
> read 16128 bytes
> prog string is 16128 bytes
> 0: SETD ;170011
> 20532: STCFD F0,(R1) ;176011
> 20562: STF F0,(R1) ;174011
> 22406: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
> 22410: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
> 22460: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
> 22462: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
> 22620: LDF F0,(R4)+ ;172424
> 22622: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
> 24124: LDF F0,4(R5) ;172465 000004
> 24130: STF F0,-(SP) ;174046
> 26616: LDF F0,#56200 ;172427 056200
>
> I chose tar as an example because it is an important utility and
> because it is a relatively heavy user of floating point (as guaged
> by the number of floating point ops contained in tar).
I don't know what the code above is intended to do, but it's not
floating point. At the very best, it would indicate the use of the
floating point registers for straightforward data moves. I stand by
my assertion that tar doesn't use floating point, neither in the
Seventh Edition nor elsewhere.
For the fun of it, I took the source of tar from the Seventh Edition
(/usr/src/cmd/tar/tar.c) and compiled it on 2.11BSD. I had some minor
compilation problems due to different directory structures, which I
solved by #ifdefing out the following code:
#if 0
for (j=0; j < DIRSIZ; j++)
*cp2++ = dbuf.d_name[j];
*cp2 = '\0';
close(infile);
putfile(buf, cp);
infile = open(".", 0);
i++;
lseek(infile, (long) (sizeof(dbuf) * i), 0);
#endif
I think we can agree that they don't contain FP code. Here are some
results:
[23] root--> cc -n -s -O tar.c -S
[24] root--> grep -i ldf tar.s
[25] root--> grep -i mul tar.s
> The following routines in 7th Edition tar appear to use floating
> point:
>
>> _filbuf
>> _innum
>> atof
>> cvt
>> ecvt
>> fcvt
>> gcvt
>> isatty
>> main
>> mktemp
atof, cvt, ecvt, fcvt and gcvt are conversion routines which use
floating point, so I can agree that they would contain FP code which,
however, would not be used. isatty is a library routine which is
simple enough to quote:
/*
* Returns 1 iff file is a tty
*/
#include <sgtty.h>
isatty(f)
{
struct sgttyb ttyb;
if (gtty(f, &ttyb) < 0)
return(0);
return(1);
}
Evidently there's no FP code there.
It's fun to go looking for things like this. But never trust
anything, especially not your own judgement, until you have a couple
of different ways to prove it. You have the sources there; go ahead
and check them out.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
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>From "Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Fri May 8 23:28:40 1998
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Message-Id: <199805081328.JAA03767(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: First edition Unix manuals
In-Reply-To: <19980508083236.N12200(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "May 8, 98 08:32:36 am"
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 09:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> On Thu, 7 May 1998 at 9:05:02 -0400, Robert D. Keys wrote:
> > I emailed him about the possibility of recreating the roff sources,
> > an I will probably wind up doing that. Then we will have a working
> > set of sources for clean copy.
>
> Great idea. Keep us posted.
>
> Greg
I have the intro and first few manpages of section 1 done so far.
Maybe a week or so and then if someone will proof them. I will
port them in original roff source, and then make a troff set.
Dennis was wanting someone to tackle an html version. Alas, my
html is not so good.
Bob
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>From Alan Bain <afrb2(a)hermes.cam.ac.uk> Sat May 9 00:08:38 1998
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To: "Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
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Subject: Re: First edition Unix manuals
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On Fri, 8 May 1998, Robert D. Keys wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 May 1998 at 9:05:02 -0400, Robert D. Keys wrote:
> > > I emailed him about the possibility of recreating the roff sources,
> > > an I will probably wind up doing that. Then we will have a working
> > > set of sources for clean copy.
> >
> > Great idea. Keep us posted.
> >
> > Greg
>
> I have the intro and first few manpages of section 1 done so far.
> Maybe a week or so and then if someone will proof them. I will
> port them in original roff source, and then make a troff set.
> Dennis was wanting someone to tackle an html version. Alas, my
> html is not so good.
>
It shouldn't be that hard to make HTML directly from the roff source (I
could probably be persuaded to do something like this, given the roff
source first of course!)
Alan Bain
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>From Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk> Sat May 9 00:35:45 1998
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Subject: Re: First edition Unix manuals
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* Robert D Keys wrote:
> I have the intro and first few manpages of section 1 done so far.
> Maybe a week or so and then if someone will proof them. I will
> port them in original roff source, and then make a troff set.
> Dennis was wanting someone to tackle an html version. Alas, my
> html is not so good.
I could probably manufacture HTML from roff reasonably rapidly,
assuming the originals are vaguely clean. I used to do this for a
living at one piunt (:).
--tim
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>From Jason Stevens <Jason.Stevens(a)aexp.com> Sat May 9 03:25:16 1998
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From: Jason Stevens <Jason.Stevens(a)aexp.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Return requested)
Subject: Re: Floating Point-The Results Are In!
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Could it be possible that all the floating point calls are part of the crt.0
initialization libs?! They may be in there as part of a initialization
routeen to detect a fp, and use it if it's there, although I really doubt tar
would really need an fp call at all.. It sounds like some kind of generic
startup thing.. Unfortunatly I don't have any source to anything at the
moment... If anyone wants to dive check the startup libs... Oh well until
then, I'm just waiting for SCO to send me my no.. :)
TTYL!
Jason
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Mahlzeit
According to Greg Lehey:
> Well, I started an answer, and decided that Steven would be able to
> answer better, but since you mention my name, OK, here I am.
Thanks. :)
> > Is this a problem with the distribution, with the emulator or with
> > the compiler (gcc 2.7.2.1)?
> First, the compiler is certainly not gcc. That would never fit in the
The compiler which compiled the emulator is gcc. Log time ago I compiled
someones emulator with gcc 2.5.8 and it did only work without any
optimization.
> nor that it's easy to set up. It took me quite a while. Take a look
> at the files in ftp://ftp.lemis.com/pub/pups. They are:
Fine, I will try it this night or tomorrow.
Thanks
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
insanity inside
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu May 7 06:43:56 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805062043.GAA03625(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Using P11 emulator (was 2.11BSD installation problems)
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:43:56 +1000 (EST)
Cc: m(a)mbsks.franken.de, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199805060638.QAA02895(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "May 6, 98 04:38:21 pm"
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Matthias,
Here are some instructions on getting that RP disk image working
with the Begemot P11 2.3 emulator. These should supplement Greg's email.
Warren
Running the 2.11BSD RP disk image on the P11 Emulator
Ok, here's how I got P11-2.3 running. Firstly, I extracted the source code
for P11 from the tarball, and built the emulator in the extracted emu
directory. Note: you need lots of virtual memory to build instab.o.
With p11 built, I went into ../run, and copied the following files here:
total 16
-rw------- 1 root wheel 1562 Apr 22 19:56 mon.help
-rw------- 1 root wheel 648 Apr 22 19:55 p11conf
-rw------- 1 root wheel 4096 Dec 12 1994 qna.rom
-rw------- 1 root wheel 512 Apr 22 19:41 rp.boot
All except p11conf came from ../emu. I had a hard time getting the p11conf
configuration file working, what with the cpp path etc. So I basically made
a p11conf file which doesn't use any #defines. Here it is:
libdir = .
ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000
end
ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000
0 /usr/local/src/RP_211bsd_root 12
end
ctrl kl
017777560 060 064 4 ../emu/IOProgs/tty_net -7 -t 10002
017776500 0300 0304 4 ../emu/IOProgs/tty_net -7 -t 10003
end
ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot
end
ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4
end
ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5
end
Note that the emulated RP disk image is at /usr/local/src/RP_211bsd_root.
The number 12 after this is arbitrary, I have no idea what it does.
Now, to run the emulator using the p11conf above from the run directory,
do ../emu/p11 -d &. You can run it in the background as it doesn't require
any keyboard interaction. Then telnet localhost 10002, and hit Return a few
times. You will see:
% telnet localhost 10002
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
-----
<---- Hit Return once or twice here
: xp(0,0,0)unix
Boot: bootdev=05000 bootcsr=0176700
2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998
root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON
attaching lo0
phys mem = 2097152
avail mem = 1668352
user mem = 307200
January 8 08:25:02 init: configure system
lp 0 csr 177514 vector 200 attached
rl 0 csr 174400 vector 160 attached
tm 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached
xp 0 csr 176700 vector 254 attached
cn 1 csr 176500 vector 300 attached
cn 2 csr 176510 vector 310 skipped: No CSR.
cn 3 csr 176520 vector 320 skipped: No CSR.
cn 4 csr 176530 vector 330 skipped: No CSR.
erase, kill ^U, intr ^C
#
That's it!!
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu May 7 06:49:24 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805062049.GAA03699(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: First edition Unix manuals
To: tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk (Tim Bradshaw)
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 06:49:24 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <199805061501.QAA08913(a)todday.aiai.ed.ac.uk> from Tim Bradshaw at "May 6, 98 04:01:21 pm"
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In article by Tim Bradshaw:
> In case other people haven't seen this, Dennis Ritchie has (scanned)
> versions of these at:
>
> http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/~dmr
>
> --tim
Thanks Tim!
Warren
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Mahlzeit
I'm using 2.11_rp_unknown[1] an the newest version of the supnik emulator.
When I'm compiling a kernel (with the newest 2.11BSD sources), I get
at the end:
./checksys unix
overlay 6 is empty and there are non-empty overlays following it.
System will occupy 156960 bytes of memory (including buffers and clists).
end {0052310} nbuf {0012014} buf {0033654}
nproc {0012002} proc {0042454} ntext {0012004}
text {0051350} nfile {0012010} file {0047370}
ninode {0012006} inode {0012076} ncallout {0012012}
callout {0024562} ucb_clist {0012020} nclist {0012016}
ram_size {0000000} xitdesc {0012074} quotdesc {0000000}
namecache {0025242} _iosize {0010030}
**** SYSTEM IS NOT BOOTABLE. ****
*** Exit 1
then I get very often Bus Errors:
# ./config SONJA
./config: 1041 Bus error - core dumped
Copying standard files to ../SONJA.
./config: 1051 Bus error - core dumped
./config: 1052 Bus error - core dumped
./config: ../SONJA/ioconf.c: cannot create
./config: ../SONJA/param.c: cannot create
Setting configuration options for SONJA.
c./config: ../SONJA/loop.h: cannot create
^C# ^C
# mkdir
Bus error - core dumped
# mkdir X
Bus error - core dumped
#
I configured the emulator with 1MB RAM. I compiled it with and without
optimization.
Is this a problem with the distribution, with the emulator or with
the compiler (gcc 2.7.2.1)?
Mahlzeit
endergone Zwiebeltuete
[1] The "distributed" 2.11BSD is not so stable. It is often killing the
filesystem.
--
insanity inside
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed May 6 16:38:21 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199805060638.QAA02895(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Installation of 2.11BSD (II)
To: m(a)mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:38:21 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <m0yWxdJ-000HprC(a)mbsks.franken.de> from Matthias Bruestle at "May 6, 98 08:24:49 am"
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In article by Matthias Bruestle:
> I'm using 2.11_rp_unknown[1] an the newest version of the supnik emulator.
[that's in the PUPS Archive, for those without a src license]
> When I'm compiling a kernel (with the newest 2.11BSD sources), I get
> [problems]
>
> I configured the emulator with 1MB RAM. I compiled it with and without
> optimization. Is this a problem with the distribution, with the emulator
> or with the compiler [used to build the emulator?] (gcc 2.7.2.1)?
>
> The "distributed" 2.11BSD is not so stable. It is often killing the
> filesystem.
Hmm, Steven Schultz did find yet another bug in Bob's emulator which fixed
the crashing vi problem. As Steven knows heaps more about 2.11 than I, here
are some general purpose suggestions from me.
+ Manually fsck on bootup. Does that help prevent fs corruption,
or is the system killing the filesystem on a regular basis?
+ Can you build a GENERIC kernel? Does it boot?
+ The 2.11_rp_unknown disk image was built with the new P11
emulator from the Begemot crew. You might try compiling and
installing this emulator, and see how 2.11BSD performs.
Anyway, Steven might offer some better advice! Greg Lehey might be able
to provide you with the P11 config files he uses. I've got the new P11
built at home, but I can't get the files on it from work.
I'm off for a short break, but I'll be back Monday. Best of luck with it.
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed May 6 17:07:10 1998
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:37:10 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, Matthias Bruestle <m(a)mbsks.franken.de>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Installation of 2.11BSD (II)
References: <m0yWxdJ-000HprC(a)mbsks.franken.de> <199805060638.QAA02895(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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In-Reply-To: <199805060638.QAA02895(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>; from Warren Toomey on Wed, May 06, 1998 at 04:38:21PM +1000
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
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On Wed, 6 May 1998 at 16:38:21 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Matthias Bruestle:
>> I'm using 2.11_rp_unknown[1] an the newest version of the supnik emulator.
>
> [that's in the PUPS Archive, for those without a src license]
>
>> When I'm compiling a kernel (with the newest 2.11BSD sources), I get
>> [problems]
>>
>> I configured the emulator with 1MB RAM. I compiled it with and without
>> optimization. Is this a problem with the distribution, with the emulator
>> or with the compiler [used to build the emulator?] (gcc 2.7.2.1)?
>>
>> The "distributed" 2.11BSD is not so stable. It is often killing the
>> filesystem.
>
> Hmm, Steven Schultz did find yet another bug in Bob's emulator which fixed
> the crashing vi problem. As Steven knows heaps more about 2.11 than I, here
> are some general purpose suggestions from me.
>
>> Manually fsck on bootup. Does that help prevent fs corruption,
> or is the system killing the filesystem on a regular basis?
>
>> Can you build a GENERIC kernel? Does it boot?
>
>> The 2.11_rp_unknown disk image was built with the new P11
> emulator from the Begemot crew. You might try compiling and
> installing this emulator, and see how 2.11BSD performs.
>
> Anyway, Steven might offer some better advice! Greg Lehey might be able
> to provide you with the P11 config files he uses. I've got the new P11
> built at home, but I can't get the files on it from work.
Well, I started an answer, and decided that Steven would be able to
answer better, but since you mention my name, OK, here I am.
One point:
> Is this a problem with the distribution, with the emulator or with
> the compiler (gcc 2.7.2.1)?
First, the compiler is certainly not gcc. That would never fit in the
address space of a PDP-11. Secondly, I'd guess it's the emulator. I
don't think many people have tried 2.11BSD on the Supnik emulator.
I'm using the Begemot emulator (Emulators/P11-2.3 in the archive). I
get:
[5] root--> cd /usr/src/sys/GRANDPA/
[6] root--> ./checksys unix
System will occupy 295600 bytes of memory (including buffers and clists).
end {0122636} nbuf {0013562} buf {0053542}
nproc {0013550} proc {0077060} ntext {0013552}
text {0121416} nfile {0013556} file {0115726}
ninode {0013554} inode {0013646} ncallout {0013560}
callout {0044274} ucb_clist {0013566} nclist {0013564}
ram_size {0000000} xitdesc {0013644} quotdesc {0000000}
namecache {0053150} _iosize {0000000}
[7] root-->
I won't pretend that the documentation of the interpreter is ideal,
nor that it's easy to set up. It took me quite a while. Take a look
at the files in ftp://ftp.lemis.com/pub/pups. They are:
-rw-r--r-- 1 root lemis 11477 May 6 16:18 README-emu
-rw-r--r-- 1 root lemis 1746 May 6 16:18 p11conf
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root lemis 315 May 6 16:19 run_211
README-emu is a brief (and hurried) description of what I did to get
the emulator working, p11conf is my current configuration, and run_211
is the command file I run to actually start the emulator. Note that
what you get when you run the emulator is just the diagnostic console;
to actually use the machine, you need to telnet to ports 10000 to
10003. Anybody interested in so doing can telnet to pdp11.lemis.com
and log in as guest, password "Today only". Don't break anything,
please--I haven't checked security too much.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
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for pups-liszt; Thu, 7 May 1998 00:38:54 +1000 (EST)
>From Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk> Thu May 7 01:01:21 1998
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Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:01:21 +0100
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From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk>
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Subject: First edition Unix manuals
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In case other people haven't seen this, Dennis Ritchie has (scanned)
versions of these at:
http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/~dmr
--tim
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>From "Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu May 7 02:12:37 1998
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From: "Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199805061612.MAA00456(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Early unix on simulators --- partial newbie success ---yeah!
In-Reply-To: <199805061501.QAA08913(a)todday.aiai.ed.ac.uk> from Tim Bradshaw at "May 6, 98 04:01:21 pm"
To: tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk (Tim Bradshaw)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:12:37 -0400 (EDT)
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I managed to get the Sim23b pdp11 emulator running on the v5 unix.
It is hard to believe a 25K kernel....(:+}}..... so much for code
bloat over the years.
My goal is to try to bring it up on a KSR35 hooked up to a headless
pc (386 board in a closet box) on the dos emulator, or whatever would
be the minimal required to get it going.
Can anyone suggest ways to reach that goal? I am still having no
luck with the Ersatz 2.0 emulator on dos, because I can't seem to
get the incantations right. I get to the @ prompt, but after
entering unix, it just sits for a bit, the HD spins, and after a
few seconds it is back at the @ prompt. There is still some magick
mystical juju required (albeit I am the dummy here....(:+\\.....)
I could port a stripped Linux 0.98 kernel maybe, to get it up,
and try that, but I was hoping the dos emulator would run with it.
Any suggestions and pointers are appreciated.
Thanks, and kudos to all the PUPS crew and Dennis Ritchie for
resurrecting the old v5 image. This kindof makes computing
fun, for a change.....
Now, where did I stash that KSR35.....
Bob Keys.....
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