Forwarded message:
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:40:12 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <9603202323.AA23006@dolphin> from "Warren Toomey" at Mar 21, 96 09:23:49 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
>
>In atricle by Bob Manners:
>>
>> Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
>> need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
>> obviously needs to support the RD51.
>>
>> Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does?
>
>v7 doesn't support RDs (just looked thru the archive), and I don't know
>of anything that does. You'd probably have to write your own device driver :-(
I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
isn't in the archive ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forwarded message:
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:43:47 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <199603202239.OAA28894(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Mar 20, 96 02:39:32 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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What about Digital's MV7 (or whatever it was called). This is
mentioned in the 11/23+ owners' manual as supported. Thus it must run
on the 11/23+ and support RD series disks. It is basically Bell Labs
version 7 I think.
> Warren's correct. MSCP support did not enter the 'BSD' picture until
> late 2.9BSD or early 2.10BSD. TMSCP support for tapes didn't come
> about until early 2.11BSD when I "borrowed" the driver from 4.3BSD
> (who had earlier borrowed it from Ultrix).
OK. I guess 2.x BSD (x>=9) requires separate I+D space? That would
rule out the 11/23+ I think.
> It should be noted that the MSCP (and to a greater degree TMSCP)
> is a *pig* - it's the largest driver in the system, rivaling the
> TTY subsystem sizewise.
Yes. I can believe that. Looks like writing my own driver would be no
fun at all!
> An 11/23 is already extremely cramped for address space even using
> simpler/smaller drivers such as the RK, RL, etc. I seriously doubt
> the MSCP driver could be smashed in to a 11/23 kernel and leave room
> for too much else.
The 11/23+ has plenty of address space (22 bit), but mine only has 128Kw ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Fri Mar 22 02:31:20 1996
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:31:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199603211631.IAA19050(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)
Robert -
> I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
> the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
> isn't in the archive ...
True - Ultrix-11 (what MV7 was called later on) does have MSCP
support in it. I've not looked at how they handle the rather
prodigious data space requirements (~2kb per controller) yet.
Cheers.
Steven
Having met with storming success (thanks Warren) in getting UNIX v6
and v7 up and running on my 11/34, and having recently (well
yesterday) acquired an 11/23+, I'd like to put UNIX on the latter.
Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
obviously needs to support the RD51.
In the case of the 11/34 I built a UNIX image under a PDP-11 emulator
and KERMITed it to the 11/34. I plan to do the same in this case ...
Any suggestions welcome. Does v7 support RD series drives? If not,
what does?
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
In atricle by Milo Velimirovic:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm still alive and well. Thanks for hte note.
>
> I have precious little time to spend with my pdp11's. I'm still looking for
> a legal Unix to run on either my 11/34 or 11/44. In the meantime I make do
> with a NeXT cube.
>
> If possible please make your paper publicly available.
You can now get it at http://minnie/Seminars :-)
I'm still working on licences.
Warren
Hi all,
I thought I'd mail to the old unix list to see if you were all
still alive & hope the new year goes well for you. It's been a quiet few
months. I've not heard back from Keith Bostic about his archive. However,
I'm presenting a paper about PDP Unixes at the local Australian Unix Users
Group summer conference next week, should be fun.
Cheers,
Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Greetings:
I've been playing with the mail system. Mailing to root brings up
can't find usr/lonex/xmail
This in itself is not a problem, as I only tried this to see what would
happen. However, I am curious as to what the lonex directory is (was).
It does not appear in my listing of the contents of tape 2.
Cheers!
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> Tue Dec 19 13:59:39 1995
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Received: (from sms@localhost) by wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (8.6.10/8.6.12) id TAA04159; Mon, 18 Dec 1995 19:59:39 -0800
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 19:59:39 -0800
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199512190359.TAA04159(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, sysyphus(a)crl.com
Subject: Re: What is lonex?
Hi -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
> Subject: What is lonex?
LONEX _was_ "Laboratory Office Network EXperiment" - a project
I worked on for many years (we started with V7) and which just ended
a couple or three years ago. We used 11/44s and 70s right up till
the end - by which point they were all running 2.11BSD. It was a
really neat system - had a common user namespace (YP before there was
YP;-)) amoungst all systems, a (for the time) spiffy text-mode menuing
interface to shield users from the fact it was Unix and so on.
> I've been playing with the mail system. Mailing to root brings up
> can't find usr/lonex/xmail
The sendmail.cf as distributed in the 'GENERIC' system kit wasn't
cleaned up enough. That reference to a local mailer that I use
should have been removed.
Several things to note:
1) the sendmail.fc file does not exist - on purpose. You'll need to
perform step 2 and then do a "/usr/lib/sendmail -bz" to freeze
(pre-process for faster loading) the config file.
2) the sendmail.cf file is not suitable for use without customizing
(filling in the domain name, relay system, etc).
3) The aliases database (/usr/lib/aliases.{dir,pag}) are not present,
on purpose. You'll want to edit /usr/lib/aliases to suit local
tastes and then do "/usr/lib/sendmail -bi" to create the dbm
aliases database.
> This in itself is not a problem, as I only tried this to see what would
> happen. However, I am curious as to what the lonex directory is (was).
It's a directory I keep local works of art such as the local mailer
'xmail' which knew the details about routing mail within the "Office
Network" we ran.
> It does not appear in my listing of the contents of tape 2.
It shouldn't have been there at all.
You should have something like:
# Mlocal, P=/bin/mail, F=rlsDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=mail -d $u
Mlocal, P=/usr/lonex/bin/xmail, F=lsSDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=xmail -f $g $u
in sendmail.cf. Simply reverse the commented status of the two
lines to be:
Mlocal, P=/bin/mail, F=rlsDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=mail -d $u
# Mlocal, P=/usr/lonex/bin/xmail, F=lsSDFMmn, S=10, R=20, A=xmail -f $g $u
And you'll be all set.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
I just thought I'd share a few more of my experiences with you in the
hope that they may help someone out....
Over the weekend, I finally succeeded in ftping Tapes/Torsten/v7.gz -
version 7 as an RL02 image. (International ftp to the UK is terrible
at present!).
I have no RL02, so I booted the image on Bob Supnic's pdp11 emulator,
built a kernel to support both RL and RK05 drives and set about
transferring the vital parts of the system to an RK05 image, with the
kernel source, games and other non-essentials going to a second
image. The two RK05 images are pretty full!
I built kernels for the 11/40 (m40.o) and 11/34 (smch.o), to support
just the RK05, and added a second DL-11 as previously discussed on
this list.
Kermiting the root image to an RK05 on my 11/34 was no trouble. My
11/34 will booth the m40.o image just fine, but the smch.o image
caused much disk activity, but no console output. Version 7 thus can
be persuaded to work on an 11/34a, with a single RK05. The second DL11
is recognised and works as expected. Version 7 seems significantly
slower than version 6, when multi-user mode is entered.
Thus, I think I'd recommend version 6 for a small system ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system.
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As Warren says, you don't want to sync after an fsck run has made
changes to the disk. Simply turn off and reboot. One gotcha Warren
omitted was the process /etc/update, which is usually started at
boot-time from /etc/rc. This process does a sync every 30 secs
automatically. Before fscking a live filesystem, kill update first!
If fsck finds anything wrong, shutdown immediately without a sync.
Of course, fscking unmounted filesystems is far safer, but not always
possible for the root partition ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm(a)swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Linux - the only choice
This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm, while we're on the topic of fsck, the RL02 image of 7th Edition that was
given to me by Torsten Hippe had an fsck for v7 filesystems, but no source code.
Torsten did say that Johnny Billquist had the original tape, but Johnny says
he's not in a position to read the tape.
Anyway, does anybody have the source code to this or another v7 fsck? Any clues
as to who wrote it etc.?
Thanks,
Warren
Howdy -
> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
>
> When I do a "reboot" the system declares that /dev/ra0f has an
> undefined inconsistency (during fsck). It tells me to run fsck
> manually, then aborts before starting the daemons.
What aborts? If by 'abort' you mean that the process of the system
coming up ceases and you get dropped into a single user shell then
that's exactly what should happen.
> I have dchecked, ichecked and fscked /dev/ra0f, and it seems to
> be a happy partition.
Ok - at that point if a manual "fsck /dev/rra0f" (and you should be
using the raw (rra) form of the device) works, then all you need to
do is hit a ^D and the system will finish coming up to a multi user
state.
Hmmm - I think we'll need some more information before hazarding a
guess as to what's not working right. The contents of /etc/fstab
and the current disklabel would be good starting points.
> ra0f starts on an even cylinder boundary. It has one file which
> occupies some 54% of the space on it.
> reboot -f brings everything up normally.
Well, yes, it will - by bypassing all filesystem checks. Usually
that'll work ok - but it's not something to do after a crash or
a power failure.
> this boo-boo. Looking through the man pages did not point me in
> any yet untried direction. I did encounter a 'bad block' on /dev/ra0d,
Hmmm - a bad block? Shouldn't be related to anything in ra0f unless
you've accidentally created overlapping partitions. If that were
the case though I'd expect massive and widespread corruption.
What was the error when the bad block was encountered? If this is
an MSCP disk you'll need to find the MicroPDP-11 Formatter and
see if it will revector the bad sector for you (BSD MSCP drivers
can not do this - probably just as well because I've heard it's
fiendishly difficult and if you get it wrong you've hosed your
drive).
Steven Schultz
sms(a)wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
