29 Oct
2019
29 Oct
'19
4:04 a.m.
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
29 Oct
29 Oct
5:07 a.m.
This looks awesome. The readme says it's unsure if this is v6 or v7. Diff
of a few files suggests v6 with the 'u' area being a pointer instead of a
struct and a few of the elements names changed a bit... The dates are from
1976 or 1977, which also matches...
And we have this from wikipedia: "By 1976, the operating system was in use
at various academic institutions, including Princeton
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princeton_University>, where Tom Lyon and
others ported it to the S/370, to run as a guest OS under VM/370
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system)>." which matches the
dates as well found on the tape.
This is seriously cool. There are a few corrupted files (like dsk.h).
Kernel sources are there, but there's no userland programs apart from the
assembler and C compiler. Looking at the kernel dskio.s routines suggests
it's making an upcall to something with the sio instructions which suggests
this is the VM/370 version.
The hits keep coming!
Warner
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 10:04 PM Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been
waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
5:19 a.m.
On Oct 28, 2019, at 9:04 PM, Warren Toomey
<wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
Well.
Time to dust of Hercules again. Too bad the LCM+L has my P/390 and I had to give my
Integrated Server back to IBM.
Adam
7:14 a.m.
El mar., 29 oct. 2019 6:20, Adam Thornton <athornton(a)gmail.com> escribió:
Amazing, Warren. And for sure the Hercules reference. Just today I was
searching for Hercules VM/370 Packs (Four & Six). Succesfully, I must say.
I will appreciate to read about all the attempts to put it on working
state. Sadly, this used to be managed on Hercules groups under Yahoogroups,
but this platform is closing. I can provide some details in [COFF] list
later.
Cordiales saludos / Best Regards / Salutations / Freundliche Grüße
-----
Sergio Pedraja
On Oct 28, 2019, at 9:04 PM, Warren Toomey
<wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting
PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Time to dust of Hercules again.
3:10 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 1:15 AM SPC <spedraja(a)gmail.com> wrote:
El mar., 29 oct. 2019 6:20, Adam Thornton <athornton(a)gmail.com> escribió:
Amazing, Warren. And for sure the Hercules reference. Just today I was
searching for Hercules VM/370 Packs (Four & Six). Succesfully, I must say.
I will appreciate to read about all the attempts to put it on working
state. Sadly, this used to be managed on Hercules groups under Yahoogroups,
but this platform is closing. I can provide some details in [COFF] list
later.
I sure hope the internet archive pulls it all down before it goes away.
Geocities used to have a lot of obscure hardware info on it and that was
mostly lost when they went away :(
Warner
On Oct 28, 2019, at 9:04 PM, Warren Toomey
<wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting
PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Time to dust of Hercules again.
3:22 p.m.
El mar., 29 oct. 2019 a las 16:11, Warner Losh (<imp(a)bsdimp.com>) escribió:
Amazing, Warren. And for sure the Hercules reference. Just today I was
Just in case and for knowledge of anyone interested, I have made a backup
pf the messages and contents at date of all the Hercules-related groups
under Yahoogroups. It's saved in SQLite format plus the files accesibles
individually.
I've added too some new URLs with the VM packs and some other stuff as
Hercules v.4, Turnkey TK4 distro, and so.
In fact I am thinking to raise one webpage dedicated to this matter, in
english and spanish languages. I had the same idea for a TUHS mirror some
time ago but it's just now when I have some free time to think seriously
about it.
Kind Regards
Sergio
searching for
Hercules VM/370 Packs (Four & Six). Succesfully, I must say.
I will appreciate to read about all the attempts to put it on working
state. Sadly, this used to be managed on Hercules groups under Yahoogroups,
but this platform is closing. I can provide some details in [COFF] list
later.
I sure hope the internet archive pulls it all down before it goes away.
Geocities used to have a lot of obscure hardware info on it and that was
mostly lost when they went away :(
Warner
31 Oct
31 Oct
3:56 a.m.
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff was recovered by Stephen at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
If anyone wants to get serious with the code, you'll need Hercules with a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running V6. There's not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything with the
recovered bits.
I've been lurking on TUHS for a while - a special Hi to Ken Thompson and
Steve Johnson. I owe a lot to each of them. Read about my summer at Bell
with the Interdata 8/32 here: https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/16/belllabspart1/
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:04 PM Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been
waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
--
- Tom
4:16 a.m.
Hijacking this a bit but much props to Tom, he has done so much. I
learned he exposed the IOMMU to user space in Linux, you have to be
a geek to get how cool that is, it's life changing for VMs and Tom
just sort of said yeah, I did that, like it was not a big deal.
So I hosted Tom and a bunch of other systems guys at my place, we did
a rib fest and talked about systems. It's the most fun I've had in
years, Kirk and Eric came and spent the night in my guest house and
Kirk dryly said "could we do this more often than every 20 years"
because I used to go to their house for wine tastings. But it had
been at least 20 years.
Kevin Bowling was the energy that got that meeting going and he has
asked me if there was some way to get an East Coast version of that
going. He really wants the DEC people, he has a theory that if we
could get the PDP-11 people and the VAX people there would be so many
good stories.
Would there be any interest in getting the DEC people together and
getting them to tell stories? I hate to travel but I'd travel for
that, especially if we got bwk and other Bell Labs people like
Doug to show up.
Pugs, happy to see you here, this list is fun.
On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 08:56:04PM -0700, Tom Lyon wrote:
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff was
recovered by Stephen at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
If anyone wants to get serious with the code, you'll need Hercules with a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running V6. There's not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything with the
recovered bits.
I've been lurking on TUHS for a while - a special Hi to Ken Thompson and
Steve Johnson. I owe a lot to each of them. Read about my summer at Bell
with the Interdata 8/32 here: https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/16/belllabspart1/
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:04 PM Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been
waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
--
- Tom 
7:51 a.m.
Hi Tom,
Kudos for making these things available. The links are great reading
as well.
I have the strong impression that this is different from the port
at Bell Labs described in the 1984 BSTJ article; can you confirm?
Warren, can you add the links into the README or whatever that's
in the archive?
Thanks,
Arnold
Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff was
recovered by Stephen at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
If anyone wants to get serious with the code, you'll need Hercules with a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running V6. There's not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything with the
recovered bits.
I've been lurking on TUHS for a while - a special Hi to Ken Thompson and
Steve Johnson. I owe a lot to each of them. Read about my summer at Bell
with the Interdata 8/32 here: https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/16/belllabspart1/
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:04 PM Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been
waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
--
- Tom
8:09 a.m.
El jue., 31 oct. 2019 a las 4:57, Tom Lyon (<pugs(a)ieee.org>) escribió:
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff was
recovered by Stephen at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
Welcome.
If anyone wants to get serious with the code,
you'll need Hercules with a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running V6. There's not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything with the
recovered bits.
Both items are available. Hoping it could be helpful, I share below some
links to related IBM 370 and DEC PDP-11 stuff that I've recently found and
more or less organized:
*HERCULES*
The Hercules System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture Emulator -
http://www.hercules-390.eu/
SoftDevLabs (SDL) version of Hercules 4.x, code named Hyperion -
http://www.softdevlabs.com/hyperion.html
*A branch of the original development of Hercules numbered itself as v.4
with more or less regular compilations *
*VM/370*
Robert O'Hara Six Pack Distribution v1.2 of VM/370 -
http://www.smrcc.org.uk/members/g4ugm/VM370.htm
*Very interesting because he includes in the same webpage downloads of the
previous VM/370 packs (Paul Gorinskey's, Andy Norrie's, Bob Abele's)*
*There is a BETA version v1.3 available too.*
Implementing VSAM under VM/370 SixPack v1.2 -
http://www.kicksfortso.com/same/KooKbooK/KooKbooK-14.htm
A compilation of Operating Systems for IBM S/370 available for download on
the Internet - https://geronimo370.nl/s370/s-370-operating-systems/<<
*It includes one direct link to the page of Robert O'Hara SixPack BETA
version v1.3 *
A relatively wide explanation of the features available in SixPack v1.2 -
https://hub.docker.com/r/rbanffy/vm370
*It includes something inusual: one link to Github where you can find one
DOCKER implementation of theSixPack v1.2 *
A surprising (and interesting) bunch of videoclips about VM/370 -
<http://www.hercules-390.eu/>https://bestofclip.net/search?s=VM/370
*PDP-11*
SIMH (Conputer History Sinulator Project). The original distribution, V3.10-0,
updated 24-Feb-2019 - http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
SIMH Original Software Kits (including bootable UNIX v7 and v6 disks) -
http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html
The SIMH v.4.x Github place, a branch of the original project with some
interesting additions - https://github.com/simh/simh
SIMH v4.0 development binaries -
https://github.com/simh/Win32-Development-Binaries
Kind Regards
Sergio Pedraja
1:51 p.m.
The Bell Labs 370 port was different, it was based on running inside of
TSS/370, which was an IBM OS which hardly anyone besides Bells's ESS group
used.
Clem can tell us all about the IBM/Locus port to the 370. And maybe there
was another IBM port??
Much later, Sun ported Solaris to the Hitachi HDS 370 clones (for Hitachi),
and then to Amdahl clones for Amdahl/Fujitsu.
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 12:51 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
Kudos for making these things available. The links are great reading
as well.
I have the strong impression that this is different from the port
at Bell Labs described in the 1984 BSTJ article; can you confirm?
Warren, can you add the links into the README or whatever that's
in the archive?
Thanks,
Arnold
Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
--
- Tom
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff
was recovered by Stephen
at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting
around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
If anyone wants to get serious with the code, you'll need Hercules with a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running V6. There's not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything with the
recovered bits.
I've been lurking on TUHS for a while - a special Hi to Ken Thompson and
Steve Johnson. I owe a lot to each of them. Read about my summer at Bell
with the Interdata 8/32 here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/16/belllabspart1/
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:04 PM Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
> All, the second Unix artifact that I've been waiting to announce has
> arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting
PDP-7.
>
> So, cast your eyes on
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
--
- Tom
2:10 p.m.
Tom,
Thanks.
AIX/370 existed and I *think* would boot on bare metal instead of running
on top of VM. I don't know what, if any, relationship it had to the
Locus work. (In the late '80s I worked at a university computing center
with VMS, Suns, and IBM gear; so I'm recalling what I heard. I never
actually saw AIX/370 running.)
The Bell Labs 370 port was different, it was based on
running inside of
TSS/370, which was an IBM OS which hardly anyone besides Bells's ESS group
used.
That's what I thought. That clarifies the README for the TUHS archives
(Warren, ...).
Much later, Sun ported Solaris to the Hitachi HDS 370
clones (for Hitachi),
and then to Amdahl clones for Amdahl/Fujitsu.
Any chance on getting those? ISTR that it was SunOS 4.0 that was
ported. Larry -- any firsthand knowledge on that?
Arnold
2:22 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 08:10:39AM -0600, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
As surprised as I am to admit this, I knew nothing about this. Never even
heard about it.
Much later,
Sun ported Solaris to the Hitachi HDS 370 clones (for Hitachi),
and then to Amdahl clones for Amdahl/Fujitsu.
Any chance on getting those? ISTR that it was SunOS 4.0 that was
ported. Larry -- any firsthand knowledge on that?
2:24 p.m.
El jue., 31 oct. 2019 a las 15:11, <arnold(a)skeeve.com> escribió:
Tom,
Just in case someone would like to put an eye on it, there is one copy of
TSS available to run under Hercules.
Regards
Sergio
The Bell Labs 370 port was different, it was
based on running inside of
TSS/370, which was an IBM OS which hardly anyone besides Bells's ESS
group
used.
That's what I thought. That clarifies the README for the TUHS archives
(Warren, ...).
3:10 p.m.
We (INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.) also did a port of UNIX to
IBM's VM/370 for IBM in the mid 1980's. Also ported UNIX
to Hitachi's mainframe in the late 1980's, although it's not
mentioned here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_Systems_Corporation
Heinz
On 10/31/2019 6:51 AM, Tom Lyon wrote:
The Bell Labs 370 port was different, it was based on
running inside
of TSS/370, which was an IBM OS which hardly anyone besides Bells's
ESS group used.
Clem can tell us all about the IBM/Locus port to the 370. And maybe
there was another IBM port??
Much later, Sun ported Solaris to the Hitachi HDS 370 clones (for
Hitachi), and then to Amdahl clones for Amdahl/Fujitsu.
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 12:51 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com
<mailto:arnold@skeeve.com>> wrote:
Hi Tom,
Kudos for making these things available. The links are great reading
as well.
I have the strong impression that this is different from the port
at Bell Labs described in the 1984 BSTJ article; can you confirm?
Warren, can you add the links into the README or whatever that's
in the archive?
Thanks,
Arnold
Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org <mailto:pugs@ieee.org>> wrote:
--
- Tom
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff
was recovered by
Stephen at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting
around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
If anyone wants to get serious with the code, you'll need
Hercules with
a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running
V6. There's
not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough
to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything
with the
recovered bits.
I've been lurking on TUHS for a while - a special Hi to Ken
Thompson and
Steve Johnson. I owe a lot to each of them. Read
about my summer
at Bell
with the Interdata 8/32 here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/16/belllabspart1/
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:04 PM Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org
<mailto:wkt@tuhs.org>> wrote:
> All, the second Unix artifact that I've been waiting to
announce
has
> arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing
it. It's not the
booting PDP-7.
>
> So, cast your eyes on
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
--
- Tom
3:12 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 9:57 PM Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff was
recovered by Stephen at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
If anyone wants to get serious with the code, you'll need Hercules with a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running V6. There's not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything with the
recovered bits.
I've been lurking on TUHS for a while - a special Hi to Ken Thompson and
Steve Johnson. I owe a lot to each of them. Read about my summer at Bell
with the Interdata 8/32 here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/16/belllabspart1/
These are interesting bits that add to the flavor of what we know already.
Thank you for taking the time to write this up...
One interesting thing from this. Your UNIX 370 port was started before the
Wollongong Interdata port. Your work on Unix 370 started in August of '75,
but the Wollongong port started in November '76 and was put into production
in July '77.
And we have the TSS/370 port described in the BSTJ, and the Bell Lab's
Intersil 8/32 port. It makes me wonder what other porting efforts had
started in the 75-78 time frame....
Warner
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:04 PM Warren Toomey
<wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been
waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
--
- Tom
3:31 p.m.
AIX/370 was done by LCC, primarily in Santa Monica. AIX PS/2 was also
part of that effort. Clem probably remembers more. Charlie
On 10/31/2019 9:10 AM, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
AIX/370 existed and I *think* would boot on bare metal
instead of running
on top of VM. I don't know what, if any, relationship it had to the
Locus work. (In the late '80s I worked at a university computing center
with VMS, Suns, and IBM gear; so I'm recalling what I heard. I never
actually saw AIX/370 running.)
--
voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer(a)technologists.com
fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/
Facebook/Google/Skype/Twitter: CharlesHSauer
1 Nov
1 Nov
4:40 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 6:52 AM Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
The Bell Labs 370 port was different, it was based on
running inside of
TSS/370, which was an IBM OS which hardly anyone besides Bells's ESS group
used.
It's funny, I did not learn of it until after CMU discommomission that
IBM/TSS system which I broke in on.
Clem can tell us all about the IBM/Locus port to the 370.
Yeah it was called and would be a product Locus did for IBM (AIX/370)
primarily for the University market. It's what the Locus (TCF) book
describes.
And maybe there was another IBM port??
I'm not sure what Amdahl had originally. I had always thought it was based
on your original from Princeton.
Much later, Sun ported Solaris to the Hitachi HDS 370 clones (for
Hitachi), and then to Amdahl clones for Amdahl/Fujitsu.
I heard that had been done, but never knew how well it worked.
4:52 p.m.
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:11 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
Tom,
Thanks.
AIX/370 existed and I *think* would boot on bare metal instead of running
on top of VM. I don't know what, if any, relationship it had to the
Locus work. (In the late '80s I worked at a university computing center
with VMS, Suns, and IBM gear; so I'm recalling what I heard. I never
actually saw AIX/370 running.)
AIX/370 and AIX/386 were done for IBM under contract by Locus Computing
Corporation (a.k.a. LCC)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_Computing_Corporation> . And yes,
most customers that I knew ran it bare metal.
Because of TCF (Transparent Computing Facility), PS/2 based PC were
clustered with the 370s, under a single system image (i.e. up to 32
processors of any time, looked to the world like a single processor). The
OS looked at the binary and found a properly provisioned system in the
cluster to execute it. So you could have require option hardware that only
one node might have, and the process would be migrated to that node. It
also meant nodes could and be added and removed dynamically.
The ideas were recreated as 14 different technologies called Transparent
Network Computing (TNC) that would end up in the FOSS community and added
to Linux 2x kernel as: OpenSSI <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSI>
3 Nov
3 Nov
1:02 a.m.
Tom,
In case you ever pass through Pittsburgh, Dave has 370s of various flavor
and some pdp-11s. I’d be pretty entertained trying to get this running in
some capacity on real iron in the future when I visit Dave.
I may put out another form to see if people would be interested in doing an
event there.
In the meantime thanks for recovering and posting this.
Regards,
Kevin
On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 8:57 PM Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
Hi, folks. Tom Lyon here - this UNIX 370 stuff was
recovered by Stephen at
LCM+L from DECtapes that I've had sitting around for 40+ years.
You can read all about the Princeton/Amdahl project here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart1/
If anyone wants to get serious with the code, you'll need Hercules with a
VM/370 image as well as a PDP-11 emulator running V6. There's not a lot
beyond the kernel, I got the shell working enough to prove that fork
worked, and then ran out of steam because of the awful communication
problems between the PDP and the IBM. [ But that was my start as a
networking guy ]. I personally haven't had time to do anything with the
recovered bits.
I've been lurking on TUHS for a while - a special Hi to Ken Thompson and
Steve Johnson. I owe a lot to each of them. Read about my summer at Bell
with the Interdata 8/32 here:
https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/16/belllabspart1/
On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 9:04 PM Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, the second Unix artifact that I've been
waiting to announce has
arrived. This time the LCM+L is announcing it. It's not the booting PDP-7.
So, cast your eyes on https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/IBM/370/
Cheers, Warren
P.S Thanks to Stephen Jones for this as well.
--
- Tom
7:05 a.m.
Thaks Clem.
Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:11 AM
<arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
Glad to know that I remembered correctly.
In the early 90s I worked teaching multi-vendor Unix courses. One
frustration was that AIX on the 370 and AIX on the PS/2 were essentially
the same as each other but very different from AIX on the RS/6000
machines. A co-worker and I wrote a short essay about if IBM made
cooking equipment:
The IBM Industrial Furnace and the IBM camping stove
would be almost, but not quite entirely, totally different
from the IBM Home Oven.
Or something like that. I can't find the original.
Tom,
Thanks.
AIX/370 existed and I *think* would boot on bare metal instead of running
on top of VM. I don't know what, if any, relationship it had to the
Locus work. (In the late '80s I worked at a university computing center
with VMS, Suns, and IBM gear; so I'm recalling what I heard. I never
actually saw AIX/370 running.)
AIX/370 and AIX/386 were done for IBM under contract by Locus Computing
Corporation (a.k.a. LCC)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_Computing_Corporation> . And yes,
most customers that I knew ran it bare metal. Because of TCF (Transparent Computing Facility), PS/2
based PC were
clustered with the 370s, under a single system image (i.e. up to 32
processors of any time, looked to the world like a single processor). The
OS looked at the binary and found a properly provisioned system in the
cluster to execute it. So you could have require option hardware that only
one node might have, and the process would be migrated to that node. It
also meant nodes could and be added and removed dynamically.
Very cool.
The ideas were recreated as 14 different technologies
called Transparent
Network Computing (TNC) that would end up in the FOSS community and added
to Linux 2x kernel as: OpenSSI <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSI>
Am I wrong, or does nobody actually use this today? The opessi.org
home page link from Wikipedia just seems to hang. And the files on the
SourceForge page are 5 years old.
Thanks,
Arnold
9:16 p.m.
On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 12:06 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
I suspect not - it was done to 2.6 kernel and none of the changes were
taken by Linus for 3x Folks got discouraged and gave up
The ideas were recreated as 14 different
technologies called Transparent
Network Computing (TNC) that would end up in the FOSS community and added
to Linux 2x kernel as: OpenSSI <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSI>
Am I wrong, or does nobody actually use this today? The opessi.org
home page link from Wikipedia just seems to hang. And the files on the
SourceForge page are 5 years old.
4 Nov
4 Nov
2:43 p.m.
Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 12:06 AM
<arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
I suspect not - it was done to 2.6 kernel and none of the changes were
taken by Linus for 3x Folks got discouraged and gave up
Ah, OK. Thanks for the info. On the one hand, two bad. On the other hand,
it looks like a real patchwork quilt of technologies...
Thanks,
Arnold
The ideas were recreated as 14 different
technologies called Transparent
Network Computing (TNC) that would end up in the FOSS community and added
to Linux 2x kernel as: OpenSSI <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSI>
Am I wrong, or does nobody actually use this today? The opessi.org
home page link from Wikipedia just seems to hang. And the files on the
SourceForge page are 5 years old.
5 Nov
5 Nov
4:12 a.m.
On 10/28/19 11:19 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
Too bad the LCM+L has my P/390 and I had to give my
Integrated Server
back to IBM.
I recently acquired a P/390-E and I'd be happy to try running something
on it. It was a learning experience getting it up and operational.
(That's a story for a different day.)
I'd love to get my hands on AIX/370. I figured it was gone for good
after I read that IBM tried to actively destroy it and wipe it from history.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
2:15 p.m.
IBM owned TCF and it was 100% screwed down into AIX. The clean room team
which did TNC used many of the ideas but tried to make it layered into 14
separate technologies so customer could pick and choose. HP originally
picked up the process technology but not the FS work. DEC was the
reverse. Novell/Tandem took all it. HP ended up with all the IP and in
the end released it as FOSS. Hence the OpenSSI project
On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 9:43 AM <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Ah, OK. Thanks for the info. On the one hand, two bad. On the other hand,
it looks like a real patchwork quilt of technologies...
Thanks,
Arnold
--
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 12:06 AM
<arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote:
>
> > The ideas were recreated as 14 different technologies called
Transparent
> > Network Computing (TNC) that would end
up in the FOSS community and
added
> > to Linux 2x kernel as: OpenSSI <
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSSI>
Am I wrong, or does nobody actually use this today? The opessi.org
home page link from Wikipedia just seems to hang. And the files on the
SourceForge page are 5 years old.
I suspect not - it was done to 2.6 kernel and none of the changes were
taken by Linus for 3x Folks got discouraged and gave up
1638
days inactive
1645
days old
24 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Adam Thornton -
arnold＠skeeve.com -
Charles H Sauer -
Clem Cole -
Grant Taylor -
Heinz Lycklama -
Kevin Bowling -
Larry McVoy -
SPC -
Tom Lyon -
Warner Losh -
Warren Toomey