- TUHS - www.tuhs.org

[Unix-jun72] warning: 1972_stuff as!

by Tim Newsham

I just noticed that the 1972_stuff "as" program generates: 400 MOV #120000,SP for core = orig+40000 / specifies beginning of user's core ecore = core+20000 / specifies end of user's core (4096 words) [...] . = orig+400 / copy in transfer vectors mov $ecore,sp / put pointer to score in the stack pointer while the V7 assembler is generating the correct: 400: MOV #60000,SP I have no idea why it is doing this. The 1972_stuff "nm" program correctly lists ecore as 60000. Use the 1972_stuff "as" at your own risk! Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] cold boot tape

by Tim Newsham

I wrote a utility for building a cold boot tape and included it in the tools directory. Its not yet tested so its possible I got the format wrong... its based on my reading of init at the end of u0.s. It seems like the permissions in the s2.tar.gz file from the 1972_stuff reflect the original 1ed permission bits (at least the low order bits do) so this makes restoring the original permissions fairly easy. Unfortunately the tar doesn't preserve the original uids. The included "Readme" does have the original uids, so its possible to recreate the proper uids by hand. If you do so, my mktape utility should write out the proper uid and mode values. The use is straightforward: cd /your/s2/directory /path/to/mktape.py bin/* etc/* and you'll get a "tape" file out. I believe you just need the stuf in bin and etc. The stuff from usr should probably go on the rk03 disk after cold boot. Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] mkfs src

by Warren Toomey

OK, I've got it to the point where is makes _a_ filesystem, and now I'm off to bed. The image looks fine to me, but I thought I'd pass the source code around in case someone spots an incorrect assumption that I've made, or a bug. I have created an RK03 image using the V1 binaries off the s2 tape. I then ran V1 check on the image; here is what it said: # check rk.img 0 files 0 large 0 indirect 0 used 3420 free Not exactly fantastic, but much better than when I gave check a random file to digest :) Good night! Warren P.S cc -o mkfs -Wall mkfs.c

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [Unix-jun72] more corrections

by Brad Parker

Tim Newsham wrote: > >How can I get the modified simh? Here's a diff against v36 and a tar of my working directory: http://www.unlambda.com/download/pdp11/unix-jun72/KE.diff http://www.unlambda.com/download/pdp11/unix-jun72/simhv36-1-ke.tar.gz >Also what configuration are you using? I have this so far: > > set tc enabled > att tc tape.dt > set rk3 enabled > att rk3 rk0.dsk > set rf enabled > att rf rf0.dsk > set cpu 11/20 > set cpu 32K I'm using this: set cpu 11/20 set hk disabled set rha disabled set tm disabled set rx disabled set rl disabled set tq disabled set rk3 enabled att rk3 rk3.dsk set tc enabled set rf enabled set ke enabled set cpu 32K load loadfile d pc 400 set cpu history=1000 attach rf rf0.dsk I forgot to include my a.out->loadfile conversion program. I'll check it in to svn. >Have you gotten far enough that it writes out the full primitive >root on rf0 so that you can reboot and get init going? No - it writes a bunch of blocks to rf0 but no directories. The 'zero i list' appears to work, and the code to init i-node 41-47 runs but nothing gets written. Or if it does the wrong thing gets written. not sure why. To debug I sprinkle "halt"'s in the code and then do "show cpu history" to see what happened. As a sanity check I also do 'e 0-40' and 'e 400-440' to make sure location 34 (iot vector) is filled in and the code at 400 is correct (it loads the sp with 60000). I might turn on some RF debug to see exactly what gets written when. -brad

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] Anyone working on V1 mkfs?

by Warren Toomey

We're going to need a filesystem. Is anybody working on tools to make one? If not, I might start work on a mkfs for V1. Warren

17 years, 2 months

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Query on PDP-11 assembly

by Warren Toomey

All, I'm trying to write a PDP-11 disassembler for a.out files. I'm having trouble dealing with jsrs. Take, for example, the code here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/1972_stuff/s1/frag19.html I can happily deal with the jsr pc,do type of jsr, but the ones involving r5 have me stumped, e.g.: jsr r5,questf; < nonexistent\n\0>; .even It appears that data is being inserted into the executable directly after the jsr instruction. How does the rts which returns from the jsr know how much data to skip, and what is the involvement of r5 here? Thanks, Warren

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [Unix-jun72] more corrections

by Brad Parker

Tim Newsham wrote: >> I wonder... hmmm. if the V1 a.out header where 12 bytes long, then >> everything would just automagically work. > >The 1ed man pages are online. I looked at them and it said that the >header consists of 6 words, but that the text length included the >header size. However, I had to skip the first 16 bytes of the >text segment (including header) to line up the various labels in >u0.s (.=orig+100, .=orig+200, etc..) yes, I think 0405 and 0407 a.out's are different. I believe the V7 headers are 16 bytes and the text section starts at zero. (heh, memory management) The v1 headers are 12 bytes and the text section starts at 014 (i.e. the header is part of the text section and *it* begins at zero, not the code) So, if we assemble with the v7 as we need to adjust things a bit. -brad

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] confused about disk clearing

by Brad Parker

I'm confused about the disk clearing code in u0.s: ... / zero i list 1: dec r0 / r0=33.,...,1 dec r1 jsr r0,clear / zero block 'r1' on fixed head disk tst r1 bgt 1b / if blocks 33,...,1 have all been zeroed, done. ... I had to add the "dec r1" above to get it to work. Otherwise it loops forever. Since 'clear' takes a block # in r1, I'm not sure it could work as written... anyone look at this? If I add the "dec r1" it does write some sort of structure to the disk. I'm not sure it's correct, but it wrote a bunch of blocks. -brad

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [Unix-jun72] more corrections

by James A. Markevitch

> I wonder... hmmm. if the V1 a.out header where 12 bytes long, then > everything would just automagically work. If you look at sysexec, you will see that the "magic number" for the a.out header is 000405. That is an instruction that jumps over the first 12 bytes. James Markevitch

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] more corrections

by Brad Parker

I made some more minor corrections; turns out the commands in e00-01 around "4;4" are wrong, those lines are needed or the IOT dispatch vector ends up in the wrong place. I suspect, in the end, most of the "hand written" corrections should ignored. Right now the svn runs and ends up in the idle loop. It dispatches the first system call (sys exec). I'm not 100% sure but I think it works. (still some missing pages but I don't think the code hits them yet) Not sure why it stops in the idle loop; maybe missing hardware. I had to add KE11A support to simh; I mostly copied the code from apout. I'll put a tar file on my web site with the modified simh source. -brad

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] svn changes?

by Hellwig Geisse

Has anything changed regarding read access to the svn repository? My client answered svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/trunk' svn: PROPFIND of '/svn/trunk': 502 Bad Gateway (http://unix-jun72.googlecode.com) when I wanted to do a regular 'svn update' command. Hellwig

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [Unix-jun72] Update on UNIX V1 OCR

by James A. Markevitch

> >Since this OCR is independent of the other work that has been done, a > >diff should provide an opportunity to fix any errors in the comments > >that would not have been caught by the assembler. > > > >Is there a place to upload this without a Google account? The assembler > >listing is about 416K. > > If you email me a tar file (or zip) I can put it on my website. I can > receive email up to about 10mb. If it's larger than that I can set up > with an ftp account. A compressed .tar.gz won't be very large. I can send it along when I get home late this evening. It's got 100% of the kernel source pages, so it should be able to fill in any holes. > I'd also be happy to write a script to diff the files. "diff -b" works fine, as does tkdiff :-). James Markevitch

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] Disassembler in progress

by Warren Toomey

Guys, I'm writing a PDP-11 a.out disassember. I think it will be useful for a couple of reasons: - we will be able to convert the extant 1972 binaries back into some form of source code. It won't be as good as the real thing, but it will be better than the binary. - we have some source code in fragmentary form on the s1 tape, see http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/1972_stuff/. Some of the fragments are identifiable, some are not. We might be able to use the diassembled binaries to identify some of the fragments, and even reconstruct a hybrid original/diassembled version of the source for some of the 1972 applications. Right now, here's what I've got: disassembly of the top of 1972 ls: sys break: 00 mov $01,044260 mov sp,r5 mov (r5)+,043732 tst (r5)+ dec 043732 mov 043732,043734 bgt 040056 mov $042542,r5 mov (r5)+,r4 cmpb (r4)+,$055 bne 040174 dec 043734 and the top of the frag19 file: sys break; end+512. mov $1,obuf mov sp,r5 mov (r5)+,count tst (r5)+ dec count mov count,ocount bgt loop mov $dotp,r5 loop: mov (r5)+,r4 cmpb (r4)+,$'- bne 1f dec ocount At the moment it's a 1-pass disassembler. I want to make it 2-pass: on the first pass I will try to identify labels for branches, functions, strings and variable locations (and given them arbitrary names); on the second pass I'll print out the instructions with reference to the labels. None of the binaries have symbol tables, unfortunately. It's a start, anyway. Warren

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] Update on UNIX V1 OCR

by James A. Markevitch

I got a chance to do some work on the UNIX V1 sources this evening. I took the output of my OCR software and with a couple of hours of editing, it successfully assembles with a MACRO11 assembler modified for "as" syntax, with the only exception being that "fpsym" is undefined. It looks like the floating point emulation code is missing. Since this OCR is independent of the other work that has been done, a diff should provide an opportunity to fix any errors in the comments that would not have been caught by the assembler. Is there a place to upload this without a Google account? The assembler listing is about 416K. I wrote much of the bootstrap code a few weeks ago, so it ought to be straightforward to get this up and running under simulation. James Markevitch

17 years, 2 months

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PDP-7 Unix listings?

by Andrew Warkentin

A while ago, I heard someone (I can't remember who) say that he had a paper listing of (at least part of) PDP-7 Unix. How much is there in the way of surviving listings of PDP-7 Unix (if any)? With all of the discussion of OCRing the V1 Unix kernel listing, I was wondering if something similar could be done with PDP-7 Unix if enough listings have survived (which is sort of unlikely, but you never know).

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [Unix-jun72] Fwd: Trying to restore 1972 UNIX

by James A. Markevitch

> I have dug up another listing of the PDP-11 assembly languge > version, which seems to about contemporary with the > one you have. The files mostly bear a copyright date > of 1972, but like other printouts from the time, > the datestamps only give month and day, not year. > They are generally from May. It is post 11/45, > and has segmentation and floating-point support. Very cool! (fpsym, presumably) > I replied and asked if we could get either a scan copy of the "other listing", > or if he could send a photocopy to Tim. As usual, the key is a high resolution, high quality scan. There is a huge difference between 300dpi and 400dpi/600dpi for this old stuff, since the signal to noise ratio is much better with the better scans. This sounds like a broken record, but there was a 1200 page listing were the first 400 pages were at 300dpi and the remaining 800 pages were at 400dpi. When you zoomed in, the differences were astounding and the OCR results reflected that (the person needed to do a lot of editing on the first third of the document to get it to compile). If someone can get me a hardcopy, I'll scan it at 600dpi, as I am sure Al would, if Tim isn't set up to scan stuff like this. James Markevitch

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] Fwd: Trying to restore 1972 UNIX

by Warren Toomey

Guys, I got this message from Dennis. Warren ----- Forwarded message from Dennis Ritchie ----- Subject: Re: Trying to restore 1972 UNIX Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 00:55:35 -0400 About the assembler, I am pretty sure that it's substantially the same as that on the 5th edition tape, so it's likely that a modified version, without the syscall definitions, could be produced. I have dug up another listing of the PDP-11 assembly languge version, which seems to about contemporary with the one you have. The files mostly bear a copyright date of 1972, but like other printouts from the time, the datestamps only give month and day, not year. They are generally from May. It is post 11/45, and has segmentation and floating-point support. Incidentally, it doesn't use any of the system call names as such; 'read' is at sysread: and so on. About assembling it, I'm pretty sure we just did 'as u?.s' and the a.out was ready. This was before make, after all. Dennis ----- End forwarded message ----- I replied and asked if we could get either a scan copy of the "other listing", or if he could send a photocopy to Tim. Cheers, Warren

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] more edits

by Brad Parker

I went through all the errors on the code checked in so far and made edits consistent (I hope :-) with the pdf. I also added the missing KE11A addresses (memory mapped EAE). The remaining errors seem to be only due to missing pages. -brad

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] Unix_Users_Talk_Notes_Jan73

by Al Kossow

Notes from the Jan 73 unix internals talk http://bitsavers.org/pdf/bellLabs/unix/Unix_Users_Talk_Notes_Jan73.pdf

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [Unix-jun72] ocr'd e03

by Tim Newsham

> Can you show me how you are running it? (and feel free to cc the list) (I think its mentioned in an earlier post already). I copy the files to my 7ed system (make a tar, put it on a tape image, and attach it in simh, then tar x to get contents). Probably easier if you're using apout and local filesystem... I'm using the following script (in my tools but not checked in because I'm using nonstandard conv2): tools/rebuild (cd rebuilt; gtar -O -cf ../u.tar u?.s) ./conv2 -o tape.tm u.tar cp tape.tm ~/work/simh/unix-v7-4/run/ Anyway to assemble I run: as - sys.s u0.s u1.s ux.s btw, I noticed some unicode characters in the files you committed. I havent' had a chance to spend time editing it yet.. The ocr often uses unicode for things like "-". > I think there is a binary format. I think I figured it out once and > wrote something to turn an a.out into it. hmmm. I'll go digging. a.out is so simple, it wouldnt be hard to reproduce if we had to. > I checked in the missing pages from e3, e4 and e8. I have not tried > to assemble them yet, however. I noticed that. Thank you. > -brad Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Query on PDP-11 assembly

by James A. Markevitch

> I can happily deal with the jsr pc,do type of jsr, but the ones > involving r5 have me stumped, e.g.: > > jsr r5,questf; < nonexistent\n\0>; .even I have encountered this type of construct a lot when doing disassemblers over the years. My usual strategy for dealing with this is: 1. If it's quick and dirty and I am not running huge amounts of code, then the disassembler allows the user to provide a list of "hints" to it. The hints for this would describe the arguments to each subroutine. For illustrative purposes, you might have a side file that contains the following: subr 002004 questf string meaning that location 002004 is a subroutine names questf that expects a null-terminated string as the argument. As an additional benefit, you get a nice name for the subroutine that the disassembler can put into the output. And if a subroutine takes two 16-bit arguments, you might have: subr 003436 mysub arg16 arg16 If the disassembler identifies each of the targets of the jsr instructions, then you can usually do a quick look at the code to see what it expects, then add to the side file, then re-run the disassembler. 2. If you want to be less quick and dirty, you can have the disassembler do a partial flow analysis of the code to figure out what is expected for arguments. This is usually much more involved and you still often need to add hints for cases where the '60s or '70s programmer did some kind of "neat trick" when coding. My philosophy on these is to use tools to get to the 95%+ level of automation and provide hints to pick up the rest. Using strategy number 1 above will probably get you a lot of success with a small amount of coding in your disassembler. James Markevitch

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] New mailing list for Unix 1972 effort

by Warren Toomey

All, I've just created a mailing list for the people involved in the effort to reconstruct the Unix kernel from the 1972 assembly listing. I thought it would be good to keep the mundane details of the work separate from the TUHS mailing list. The new list is unix-jun72(a)tuhs.org I've manually subscribed the e-mail addresses that seem to be interested in the work. If you want to be removed from the new list, e-mail me. If you want to subscribe to the list, you can go here to do that: https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/unix-jun72 Cheers, Warren

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] tif images

by Cyrille Lefevre

Hi, here is my 2p : http://cyrillelefevre.free.fr/jun72/jun72.zip which is an archive of automatically extracted tif images from the original pdf file. so, no need to print/scan any more... Regards, Cyrille Lefevre -- mailto:Cyrille.Lefevre-lists@laposte.net

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] Is there anything I can do to help?

by Andrew Warkentin

Is there anything I can do to help restore this system? I'm not very familiar with PDP-11 assembly.

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] assembling ux.s

by Tim Newsham

I am trying out apout using the "1972_stuff" binaries. When using "as" to assemble "ux" (e10-01 through e10-02) it gives an error "m 0024" (multiply-defined label) for the line: mount: .=.+1024. I assume this is because the assembler has predefined the "mount" system call (I ran across this earlier when using my system call table sys.s with ux with the v7 assembler). We can work around this (ie. use the v7 assembler without the definition for "mount"), but it worries me a little -- why does the listing have such an obvious and large flaw? The symbol "mount" is used in several places, so this isn't likely to be a small typo. I can't think of a good explanation as to why this error would exist in the listing other than possibly pointing to another assembler being used. Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/

17 years, 2 months

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[Unix-jun72] Existing resources

by Warren Toomey

I just thought I'd make a quick list of what we have at our disposal, apart from the humans that is :) http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/bellLabs/unix/PreliminaryUnixImplementationDoc… - the 1972 kernel on paper, currently being OCR'd in http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/1stEdman.html http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Dennis_v3/v3man.t… - manuals for 1st and 3rd Edition UNIX. I have 2nd Ed on paper, and I'll scan it in. http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/research/1972_stuff/ - binaries from around 1972 in the s2.tar.gz tarball. - fragment of source code from 1972 in s1-fragments.tar.gz. http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Early_C_Compilers/ - early C compiler source, known to be working and can recompile itself. The last1120c.tar.gz is probably the one best suited to the 1972 kernel. http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Emulators/Apout/ - Apout, an emulator which can actually run the 1972 binaries. This means we can use the 1972 tools to help reconstruct the system. http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ - Bob Supnik's simh emulator, which we can use to boot the kernel once it's typed in and assembled Cheers, Warren

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Whence 1st Edition Unix Kernel Assembly?

by Warren Toomey

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:53:30AM -0700, James A. Markevitch wrote: > I have been referring to this as version "1.5" since the date is later > than the first edition manual, but before the second edition manual. > Does anyone know if it's truly V1 of the kernel, or something between > V1 and V2? The date on the first page of the memo (PDF) is September 1972. That puts the memo after 2nd Edition (June 1972) and 3rd Edition (Feb 1973). The s2 tape in the Unix Archive has binaries which are dated mainly in 1972, spread from January thru to December, so they should be contemporaneous with the kernel in the PDF. The 1st Edition manuals are on-line on Dennis Ritchie's web page at: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/1stEdman.html I have a photocopy of the 2nd Edition manuals from Norman Wilson; I will scan them in as a bunch of tiffs. The 3rd Edition manuals are at http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Dennis_v3/v3man.t… but they refer to the C version, so they may not be as useful here. > Does anyone have utilities earlier than the "1972" stuff from TUHS? No, the s1 and s2 tapes are the earliest machine readable files that we have. I'm assuming that some of you are keen to see it running. It's going to take a lot of work, especially on the debugging side. The existing 1972 binaries are already executable using my Apout emulator, so that will help in two ways: we can run the old assembler, and we can tell if a bug was in a userland binary and not in the kernel. If I get a chance, I should try to compare the 1e and 2e manuals, to outline the kernel API differences, as this might help us to determine which binaries we have that will run on the PDF kernel. Cheers, Warren

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Whence 1st Edition Unix Kernel Assembly?

by James A. Markevitch

> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:53:30AM -0700, James A. Markevitch wrote: > > I have been referring to this as version "1.5" since the date is later > > than the first edition manual, but before the second edition manual. > > Does anyone know if it's truly V1 of the kernel, or something between > > V1 and V2? > > The date on the first page of the memo (PDF) is September 1972. That puts > the memo after 2nd Edition (June 1972) and 3rd Edition (Feb 1973). However, the date at the bottom of each page of the source listing is 3/17/72. My assumption is that the code was from that date, but that the author of the memo spent a few months writing up the text that goes along with it. That's why I've been assuming that it was code somewhere between Version 1 and Version 2. > I have a photocopy of the 2nd Edition manuals from Norman Wilson; I will > scan them in as a bunch of tiffs. If possible, can you scan them at 400dpi or 600dpi? Those are much more amenable to OCR than 300dpi. Alternatively, if you can send me a hardcopy, I will scan it at 600dpi and pass it along to bitsavers. > I'm assuming that some of you are keen to see it running. It's going to > take a lot of work, especially on the debugging side. I have already noticed quite a few errors in the listing, so it's not clear that the PDF was something that actually ran, or whether it had been re-typed by somebody. So far, many of the errors I have found are in the "cold" portion of it, so it may be that the "warm" code will run properly. James Markevitch

17 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] The Coming 40th Anniversary of UNIX?

by Norman Wilson

I'm sure there will be at least some recognition of the 40th anniversary at a certain event in mid-June 2009 in San Diego. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

17 years, 2 months

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The Coming 40th Anniversary of UNIX?

by Lord Doomicus

It occurs to me that next year will the the 40th Anniversary of UNIX. Is anyone planning any type of celebration? Perhaps the Vintage Computer Festival? - Derrik Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE lorddoomicus(a)mac.com http://www.doomd.net The twenty first century is when it all changes, and Torchwood is ready! - Captain Jack Harkness, Torchwood Three.

17 years, 2 months

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Whence 1st Edition Unix Kernel Assembly?

by Warren Toomey

All, I'm sure I saw a PDF document a few years ago which was an early UNIX kernel written in assembly code. I thought I had saved the document, but alas I can't find it. Can anybody remind me where to get it, or perhaps I was hallucinating! Thanks, Warren

17 years, 2 months

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ocr/typing jun72 unix kernel code

by Tim Newsham

I've started an SVN for the OCR'd results: http://code.google.com/p/unix-jun72/ if anyone needs commit access email me your account name. I've already assigned some blocks to people. If you want a block either claim it in the notes.txt file or email me and I'll add it. Also if you have plans to perform raw OCRs of large sections of the original doc, please let me know or make a note of it in the notes.txt file. Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/

17 years, 2 months

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test

by Andrew Warkentin

This is a test. Please ignore. (checking if I am subscribed - the server doesn't appear to be sending success messages)

17 years, 3 months

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the V distributed system

by Wesley Parish

I was researching various windowing systems for various reasons and I found the mention of the V distributed sytem on the W article stub on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_Window_System "W was originally developed at Stanford University by Paul Asente and Brian Reid for the V operating system." A few questions here: is V close enough to Unix to warrant winding up in an "Other" category in the TUHS repository? Does anyone have a copy of it (plus source if possible)? If so, who should I contact? Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

17 years, 3 months

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[pups] 2.11BSD patches?

by Warren Toomey

----- Forwarded message from Jonathan Engdahl <jrengdahl(a)gmail.com> ----- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:50:29 -0500 From: Jonathan Engdahl <jrengdahl(a)gmail.com> To: wkt(a)tuhs.org, sms(a)2bsd.com Subject: 2.11BSD I don't know what got into me. I decided to fire up a PDP-11. I have not touched one of these for about 5 years. I've mostly been messing with embedded Linux stuff. The 2.11BSD patch archive has gone offline. Do you know if there is a mirror of this somewhere? http://moe.2bsd.com/ Jonathan Engdahl ----- End forwarded message -----

17 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] init on V6 Unix

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, Quing Feng, at http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/pdp11 you'll find a detailed description of the pdp-11 and its peripherals as needed for understanding design and implementation of V6. and at http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/script/chapt2.4 you'll find a description of the init process. have fun, Wolfgang Helbig Warren Thomas wrote: > >On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 09:44:59AM +0800, Hao Qingfeng-TKNV68 wrote: >> Hello, Warren, Excuse me for my abruptness. I am QingFeng Hao from >> China and got your mail from the website through google searching, :-). >> I know you're expect on the operating system. Now I am researching the >> Unix V6's source code , but I met some questions, if you could spend >> some time to give some aim, I 'll apprecite it much. >> Question1: After startup, process 1 runs in the user mode and execute >> the file /etc/init actually, right? So what's the /etc/init's content? >> When was it written to the disk(combined with Unix)? >> Question2: Do you have any documents about the peripherals such as >> KL-11, PC-11? I just got a pdp11/40 and a simple hardware manual from >> the website. But they are not enough. >> Thanks a lot. >> QingFeng Hao >> Moto-SME > >Hi QingFeng, I think you should join the PUPS mailing list ( see >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups ), as the people on >the list should be able to answer your questions. > >Q1: The source code for V6 init.c is here: > http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/V6/usr/source/s1/init.c.html > >Q2: I would browse through this area of bitsavers.org: > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/ > >Hope this helps, and if you have other questions please e-mail them >to the PUPS mailing list, so that we can all help you out. > >Cheers, > Warren >_______________________________________________ >PUPS mailing list >PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups -- "Dijkstra is right, but you don't say such things!" (A less courageous programmer) ------------- End Forwarded Message ------------- -- "Dijkstra is right, but you don't say such things!" (A less courageous programmer)

17 years, 3 months

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[pups] init on V6 Unix

by Warren Toomey

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 09:44:59AM +0800, Hao Qingfeng-TKNV68 wrote: > Hello, Warren, Excuse me for my abruptness. I am QingFeng Hao from > China and got your mail from the website through google searching, :-). > I know you're expect on the operating system. Now I am researching the > Unix V6's source code , but I met some questions, if you could spend > some time to give some aim, I 'll apprecite it much. > Question1: After startup, process 1 runs in the user mode and execute > the file /etc/init actually, right? So what's the /etc/init's content? > When was it written to the disk(combined with Unix)? > Question2: Do you have any documents about the peripherals such as > KL-11, PC-11? I just got a pdp11/40 and a simple hardware manual from > the website. But they are not enough. > Thanks a lot. > QingFeng Hao > Moto-SME Hi QingFeng, I think you should join the PUPS mailing list ( see http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups ), as the people on the list should be able to answer your questions. Q1: The source code for V6 init.c is here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/V6/usr/source/s1/init.c.html Q2: I would browse through this area of bitsavers.org: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/ Hope this helps, and if you have other questions please e-mail them to the PUPS mailing list, so that we can all help you out. Cheers, Warren

17 years, 3 months

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[pups] Integrated Solutions 68K CPU

by Bill Gunshannon

Does anyon know if any of the Unix versions for the Integrated Soulutions 68K CPU (the one that went in QBUS boxes) is still in existence and available anywhere? Also, there wre alternate PROMS that did MACSBUG is there any chance someone here knows if that is available any where? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

17 years, 4 months

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Re: [TUHS] Banyan Vines? Banyan/ePresence dissolves self

by Janet Sala

My recollection from those days was that Banyan Vines was developed in collaboration with DEC. I think it would have been more likely that it was BSD or (eek) ULTRIX based. I was working on system and network management at AT&T USO/USL/Novell/HP until 1997 and never heard it mentioned that Banyan Vines was on any sort of System V license though we were all quite aware of the product. I think I would have heard something if they were ³one of ours.² Given the timeframe it would more likely have been some sort of 7th edition license, but in those days BSD would have been the more logical choice. This is just my recollection, however. I¹ll see what I can track down in terms of facts. Very truly yours, - janet Janet Frazer Sala > > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:56:26 -0700 > From: Andrew Warkentin <andreww(a)datanet.ab.ca> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Banyan Vines? Banyan/ePresence dissolves self > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <47A18D3A.5090401(a)datanet.ab.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Wesley Parish wrote: > >> >Who would one need to get in touch with, to ask about the possibility of >> >getting the various obsolete Banyan Vines bits and pieces donated to TUHS? >> >(It was based on a Unix kernel, so I would say it - one of the first NOSes >> to >> >have a directory - should be part of the TUHS repository.) >> > >> > > Wasn't it based on System V? Wouldn't that prevent it from being > released? (unless they made a similar deal with AT&T to the one Sun > made, which is very unlikely)

17 years, 5 months

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Banyan Vines? Banyan/ePresence dissolves self

by Wesley Parish

I was reading Graklaw for more-of-the-same - boneheaded companies taking on productive people with intent to reduce dangerous productivity in favour of monopolizing transaction tokens ie, money - and I came across the article on some_bright_spark suing some other company for daring to try protecting networks from email-borne spam: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080125135544713 Which got me thinking - Banyan Vines was a player back then, and the comments mentioned only Novell. Surely there's something about Banyan's Vines? I did a google search and found this: http://www.bizjournals.com/masshightech/stories/2007/12/24/daily7.html?ana=… Wednesday, December 26, 2007 Liquidating ePresence distributes cash Mass High Tech: The Journal of New England Technology <snip> Framingham's ePresence Inc. reports a plan to distribute cash to its shareholders as part of its dissolution plan. The distribution of $3.6 million, or 14 cents per common share, is expected to be paid this week to those who were ePresence shareholders as of June 23, 2004. The distribution, combined with the previous distributions totaling $4.15 per share, would return a total $4.29 per share to ePresence shareholders, company officials said. EPresence was launched in 1983 as Banyan Systems, selling a network operating system and directory. But competitors such as Novell Inc. and Microsoft Corp. subsequently moved into that market and Banyan switched focus in 1997. In 2003, ePresence sold it services business to Unisys Corp. for $11.5 million. In 2004, the company sold its online telephone directory division Switchboard Inc. to Bellevue, Wash.-based InfoSpace Inc. for $160 million. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who would one need to get in touch with, to ask about the possibility of getting the various obsolete Banyan Vines bits and pieces donated to TUHS? (It was based on a Unix kernel, so I would say it - one of the first NOSes to have a directory - should be part of the TUHS repository.) Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

17 years, 5 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 5

by lm＠bitmover.com

I'm pinging my contacts to see if I can find a place to host a mirror. I think that Oregon State Open Source Lab has a fat link to the net and I used to know Scott K but he's moved on. If I get anywhere I'll get back to the list. BTW, whoever is the listmom, can you change me from digest to regular? -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

17 years, 5 months

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tropix

by Jose R. Valverde

Looking at the UNIX tree chart as I do from time to time to re-search for old UNIX, I came this time over TROPIX, which is a UNIX-like system developed from scratch on Brazil in their "IT cold war" times. The system is now open source and can be found at http://allegro.nce.ufrj.br/tropix/index.html the pages are in Portuguese (sic) but one may get install media and the full source code (Código Fonte). I wonder it if would be sensible to store a copy of it on TUHS as well. In any case, I've added it to the collection at ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/os/UNIX/tropix I've run it on QEMU and it's got a somewhat distinctive look and feel (and command set). Curious to say the least. The major drawback is that it is all in Portuguese. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

17 years, 6 months

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TUHS archives and rsync

by Jose R. Valverde

On the TUHS site there is a list of other available sites. If you want you can try mine (ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS) but be advised that I try to keep copies of more things than the original site and it may be bigger. I can't remember offhand now if rsync was set up or not and I'm now on holidays abroad so it's difficult to check (mainly due to the strange french keyboard). Anyway, you're welcome and I will make sure rsync works (when I'm back on January) at my site. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

17 years, 6 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 44, Issue 3

by lm＠bitmover.com

> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:58:40 +0000 > From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)tfeb.org> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS... > To: Wilko Bulte <wb(a)freebie.xs4all.nl> > Cc: tuhs(a)tuhs.org, asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> > Message-ID: <CAC4A7E7-B4E5-41FA-BA05-7707366B6215(a)tfeb.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > On 21 Dec 2007, at 12:31, Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > You could have DomainOS take a BSD or a SysV personality. Very > > interesting. > > Very tangentially, Masscomp's RTU (real time Unix) could do this > too. Other than that I think it is definitely something best > forgotten, as it was pretty horrid (although my memory may be biassed > by the awfulness of the HW) Oh, I have fond memories of the Masscomp. That's where I learned how to do sys admin (recovered from an rm -rf /) as well as networking (based on 4.1c BSD as I recall, plus hacks). Masscomp had a really nicely redone version of the socket programming docs that was most helpful at the time. I was ..!uwvax!geowhiz!geophys!lm as I recall and all the geo* were Masscomps. Ah, the joys of 20 users on a 40MB disk. That's why I wrote something that turned Honeyman's time optimal but space worst case pathalias db into O(time optimal) as well as O(space best case). Only dynamic programming alg I've ever done and written up. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

17 years, 6 months

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HP Apollo Series 400 and DOMAIN/OS...

by asbesto

Hi! We just recovered an HP APOLLO Series 400 in our computer museum, and we got the installation tapes of DOMAIN/OS. It seem a very particular flavour of BSD 5.3. We also made a dump of the tapes, to preserve it. :D Does someone know more about it? What about licensing? Is it covered by some sort of hobbyist license? Kisses to everybody! :) asbesto/freaknet computer museum http://museum.freaknet.org -- [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ]

17 years, 6 months

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Anyone have a copy of the TUHS archive available for rsync?

by Aharon Robbins

Hi. Warren and I seem to be on opposite ends of the world network wise, such that I am unable to rsync to minnie to keep my copy of the TUHS archive up to date. Does anyone out there in TUHS land have a copy they're willing to make available for syncing? Thanks! Arnold Robbins

17 years, 6 months

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test / [

by Tim Bradshaw

Does anyone know (remember) which Unices had .../bin/[ be a link to .../bin/test. I remember this being the case, but it is not so on any recent Solaris. It is the case on my Mac, so in at least one BSD derivative. I looked through a 7th edition tarball from the archive and it's not the case there. So my guess is that it is a BSDism, and it probably was the case in SunOS 4 and before, and I guess on at least 4.2BSD & later. Thanks --tim

17 years, 7 months

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open solaris vi?

by Aharon Robbins

Has anyone tried / succeeded at getting the OpenSolaris ex/vi to compile and/or run under Linux? Thanks, Arnold

17 years, 7 months

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Multics has been open sourced!

by Lord Doomicus

More info here: http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/ - Derrik Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE lorddoomicus(a)mac.com http://www.doomd.net "I want to be on the list ... I try but they never put me on" -- Steve Wozniak on "being on the list"

17 years, 7 months

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Re: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK

by Toby Thain

On 17-Nov-07, at 4:15 PM, Bob Eager wrote: > ** Reply to note from Toby Thain <toby(a)smartgames.ca> Sat, 17 Nov > 2007 12:44:53 -0200 > >> On 17-Nov-07, at 11:21 AM, Bob Eager wrote: >> >>> ** Reply to note from Toby Thain <toby(a)smartgames.ca> Sat, 17 Nov >>> 2007 11:08:32 -0200 >>> >>>> On 2-Nov-07, at 11:59 AM, Bob Eager wrote: >>>>> ** Reply to note from Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com> Fri, 2 >>>>> Nov 2007 09:42:47 -0400 >>>>>> Wes, >>>>>> Is this the book you are thinking of? >>>>>> >>>>>> http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/ >>>>>> index.html >>>>> >>>>> Probably was! >>>>> >>>>> I just bought a copy on eBay a couple of weeks ago, and have just >>>>> read it >>>>> cover to cover. >>>> >>>> There's more than one edition. ... > I have the earlier "Computer Engineering" and the 2nd edition of > "Art of > Digital Design". I have now ordered the 1998 edition of "Computer > Engineering". I look forward to all of the stuff that was too late > for the > first edition. Bob, Sorry! I think I was actually talking about a different Bell title. I checked my past orders and found the following: Author: Bell, C. Gordon; Newell, Allen Title: Computer Structures: Readings and Examples Author: Siewiorek, Daniel; Bell, C. Gordon; Newell, Allen, Title: Computer Structures: Principles and Examples Both of these contain many architectural case studies (each book covers a different set). And both should be findable in this list: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults? an=bell&sts=t&tn=computer+structures I also have Computer Engineering but it's a different book! Sorry again about the confusion. --Toby > > > Bob

17 years, 7 months

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Re: [pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK

by Bob Eager

** Reply to note from Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com> Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:42:47 -0400 > Wes, > Is this the book you are thinking of? > > http://research.microsoft.com/users/gbell/Computer_Engineering/index.html Probably was! I just bought a copy on eBay a couple of weeks ago, and have just read it cover to cover. A bit dry at the start, but fascinating...I starting using PDP11s back in 1972. (an 11/20) And used what I think was the first v6 UNIX system in England... Bob cc: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org

17 years, 7 months

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MIT Releases the Source of MULTICS, Father of UNIX

by Angus Robinson

Not to sure if anybody on the list has seen this ? Or if anybody has the hardware to run it. http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/Multics_Internet_Server/Multics_s…

17 years, 7 months

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Multics source code...

by Cornelius Keck

According to this German report: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/98910 Multics source code is available for download at http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/source/Multics_Internet_Server/Multics_s… More information at http://web.mit.edu/multics-history/, and http://www.multicians.org/multics.html Regards, Cornelius --- Cornelius Keck ----> cornelius(a)keck.cx / usenet54(a)keck.us / ckeck(a)texoma.net

17 years, 7 months

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[pups] Suitable PDP11s, in the UK

by Tim Bradshaw

Having long ago got rid of my collection of ageing British (super) minis, I realise I'm missing them, though I'm not sure why. I can't pretend any more that something running 4.2BSD is really practical, so I'd like to get something really impractical, like a pdp11. What I'd like to be able to do is run 7th edition or thereabouts and/ or 2.11BSD on something which is not too large (so full-height 19" racks are out). I'm not interested in emulators. It looks to me like there are such systems - for instance the recently-discussed 11/23 (or 11/73) looks practical, other than being in Utah. So I guess I have two questions: Firstly is this a practical thing to do in terms of reliability of HW etc? I finally gave up on the previous lot of machines at least partly because disks &c were just so flaky that it was too painful to keep things working (also we're talking full-height 19" racks in some cases so they were a bit, well, big). I don't want to spend my life trying to source ancient disks etc (though I'm clearly not expecting things to be as reliable as good, new modern kit). Secondly, does anyone in the UK (may be there is no one but me, of course...) have any hints where I might look and what I might expect to pay. I've looked on ebay but I'm a little nervous of what I might get that way. Thanks --tim

17 years, 7 months

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Unix on the 370....

by Jason Stevens

I know, this is completley off the wall, and odd at best. But are there any surviving copies of v6, that ran on the 370? I understand there were several ports, one running on UTS, another on bare metal before AIX was ported... Did any of these survive?

17 years, 8 months

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mach & nextstep.

by Jose R. Valverde

Bad luck. The CD's are lost (unreadable actually). Not surprising seeing as they were old and had been tossed around so many times (sic). Maybe the original request for Mach sources should be redirected to comp.os.mach or to some of the original authors to see if they still keep something around. It might be that even CMU keeps something. j > I *think* I have. > > Thank goodness yo mention this! I believe I have copies on CD-ROM dating back > from '94 or so. I'll dig them up. The problem is I believed I also had them on > the FTP server, but they aren't. I must have lost them on one disk crash or > another and didn't notice, so your question is great for I might part of the > original CDs and lose it. > > 'nuff said. I'll check this afternoon when I go back home and try to find again > those old CDs (cross your fingers). -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

17 years, 8 months

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Re: [pups] pdp11 in Utah

by Milo Velimirovic

> > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:39:58 -0600 > From: "Brad Midgley" <bmidgley(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [pups] pdp11 in Utah > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: > <d89ddf300710311039q134e47b4q5f515efb22860d43(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi > > I have a pdp11 (about the size of a 6u rackmount) free if anyone is > interested. This sounds like a Digital BA-11 of some sort. It could be something as early as a pdp 11/20, 11/05, 11/34, 11/35, or as late as a 11/24 or 11/44 -- possibly others. > > -- > Brad > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:44:50 -0400 > From: "Gregg Levine" <gregg.drwho8(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [pups] pdp11 in Utah > To: "Brad Midgley" <bmidgley(a)gmail.com> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: > <18d205ed0710311344g13a53c8bo9fbdd03b73ef4ae1(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 10/31/07, Brad Midgley <bmidgley(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi >> >> I have a pdp11 (about the size of a 6u rackmount) free if anyone >> is interested. >> >> -- >> Brad >> _______________________________________________ >> PUPS mailing list >> PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >> > Hello! > Brad, I am interested, although the space in my apartment would be the > big issue. The problem is that I am in an apartment in NYC, Queens to > be exact. Just how hard would it be to send it to me? Not easy or cheap. It's bulky, heavy and would usually require 2 persons to move around. I've moved various of my pdp11s around and it's always been hard work. Stashing a case of beer in the bottom of an H960 is good incentive for assistants. > If its both cost > and space excessive then perhaps others on the list would be > interested. > > Oh and which model is this fellow? I am looking for a PDP-11/53, and > have been for many years. e-Bay? > -- > Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8(a)gmail.com > "This signature was once found posting rude > messages in English in the Moscow subway." [snip] -- Milo Velimirović, Unix Computer Network Administrator 608-785-6618 Office - 608-386-2817 Cell University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W -- There's a reason Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson have been awarded the U.S. National Medal of Technology (1998) and are fellows of the Computer History Museum Online. Dave Cutler hasn't and isn't. "You are not expected to understand this."

17 years, 8 months

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Re: [pups] pdp11 in Utah

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hi All, That's a BA23 in tower stand, aka a room heater. The system looks like a Micro-PDP11/23 or /53. The tape unit seems to be an old model TK50 (it has no markings, which was standard for the old units), the disk could be an RD-53, it has the same alu frame. Other disks (RD54) are full-metal, or smaller (RD31, 32, 20). The buttons on the front panel seem to be just 4, not 6. The original Micro-11 (aka 11/23) had 4, because it could handle only a single disk (the 10MB disk RD50); the newer systems had two extra buttons (online and WP) for a second disk. So... looks like a Micro-11[/23] with larger than standard disk (RD53)and the original TK50 tape. On the back panel we only see the bulkhead for the system-standard DZV-11 4-port async module, of which ports 0 and 1 (console and aux, resp) are in semi-fixed mode. Cheers, Fred PS: for people in NL; I have a few 11/53 systems left... :)

17 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs

by James Petts

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> > To: "Al Kossow" <aek(a)bitsavers.org> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 > > > Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > > > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? > > Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. > > I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, > having some cdrom interfaces. > > sorry for my bad english :) > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs for me.

17 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 43, Issue 1

by Christopher Bahn

Hi, I have the same problem with an old floppy disk (2,5). Any Ideas what I can do? Thanks a lot and kid regards, Christopher On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:00:01 +1000 > From: tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Reply-To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: TUHS Digest, Vol 43, Issue 1 > > Send TUHS mailing list submissions to > tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tuhs-owner(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (asbesto) > 2. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (James Petts) > 3. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (asbesto) > 4. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Warner Losh) > 5. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Angus Robinson) > 6. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Wilko Bulte) > 7. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (James Petts) > 8. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (asbesto) > 9. Re: Recovering flaky CDs (Wilko Bulte) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 > From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: Al Kossow <aek(a)bitsavers.org> > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031092233.GC14989(a)freaknet.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 > > Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: > >>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, > having some cdrom interfaces. > > sorry for my bad english :) > > > > > -- > [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] > [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] > [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] > [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 > From: "James Petts" <jpetts(a)operamail.com> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031162500.832803AA648(a)ws5-8.us4.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> >> To: "Al Kossow" <aek(a)bitsavers.org> >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 >> >> >> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >> >>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >> >> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >> connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, >> having some cdrom interfaces. >> >> sorry for my bad english :) >> >> > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > for me. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:47:36 +0100 > From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: James Petts <jpetts(a)operamail.com> > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20071031164736.GB22786(a)freaknet.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 > > Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > >>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >> for me. > > A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the > cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > this horrible problems with "SEANTRAM" and "PRINCO" cd's; the > princo cd was literally unreadable after only 6 months of age! > > > -- > [ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab] > [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto - http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] > [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE! - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] > [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:56:29 -0600 (MDT) > From: Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: jpetts(a)operamail.com > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org, asbesto(a)freaknet.org > Message-ID: <20071031.105629.104123720.imp(a)bsdimp.com> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii > > From: "James Petts" <jpetts(a)operamail.com> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> >>> To: "Al Kossow" <aek(a)bitsavers.org> >>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 >>> >>> >>> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >>> >>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>> >>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >>> connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, >>> having some cdrom interfaces. >>> >>> sorry for my bad english :) >>> >>> >> >> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >> for me. > > I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there > not similar programs for data disks? > > Warner > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:15:09 +0200 > From: Angus Robinson <angus(a)fairhaven.za.net> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > To: Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org, asbesto(a)freaknet.org > Message-ID: <4728B81D.40304(a)fairhaven.za.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Warner Losh wrote: >> From: "James Petts" <jpetts(a)operamail.com> >> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:25:00 -0800 >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> >>>> To: "Al Kossow" <aek(a)bitsavers.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs >>>> Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100 >>>> >>>> >>>> Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs? >>>>>> >>>>> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. >>>>> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. >>>>> >>>> I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very >>>> damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his >>>> own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be >>>> connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars, >>>> having some cdrom interfaces. >>>> >>>> sorry for my bad english :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor >>> resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs >>> for me. >>> >> >> I've used cdparanoia to recover badly damaged audio disks. Are there >> not similar programs for data disks? >> >> Warner >> > > Dont know how true it is but the local paper here was running a story > about some students using goverment condoms to fix scratched cd's. They > worked for 3 uses. Never tried it as most of the stuff i have on cd i > can get again. > > Regards, > Angus > >> _______________________________________________ >> TUHS mailing list >> TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >> >

17 years, 8 months

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[pups] pdp11 in Utah

by Brad Midgley

Hi I have a pdp11 (about the size of a 6u rackmount) free if anyone is interested. -- Brad

17 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs

by James Petts

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wilko Bulte" <wb(a)freebie.xs4all.nl> > To: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:09:11 +0100 > > > Quoting asbesto, who wrote on Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:47:36PM +0100 .. > > Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:25:00AM -0800, James Petts wrote: > > > > > > > > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of > > recovering flaky CDs? > > > > > Easiest first step is try using different kinds of > > CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives. > > > > > I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive. > > > > I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very > > > > damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his > > > > own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be > > > Those CD Doctor "cleaners" (they actually do a minor > > > resurfacing of the disc) have rescued several discs > > > for me. > > > > A great problem I had some time ago was a sort of oxydation of the > > cd material; this seem to happen using very bad cd brands. i had > > Note that the reflecting layer in factory produced CDs is aluminium. > A thin layer of lacquer is protecting the reflector. > > As an interesting eye opening experiment I dumped one of these AOL promo CDs > we used to be bombarded with in a bowl of lukewarm water. Plain water, 25 > degrC. Within a day the aluminium layer had holes in it the size of dimes. > Apparantly the protective lacquer was very substandard. > > El-cheapo CDR can have similar characteristics. And it is the top side (label side) of the CD that is most fragile, not the reading side. There is about 0.5 mm of plastic that can take some pretty fearsome scratches and still be readable, or at least resurfaceable (is that a word?).

17 years, 8 months

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Fwd: Re: X Windows preX10R3 releases

by Wesley Parish

I emailed Jim Gettys on ancient X Window System code and this is his reply. (I asked him if it was okay to pass this on to the TUHS list, and he said yes.) He's after someone who knows ClearCase, so if there's anyone on this list who's knowledgable, or knows someone else who's knowledgeable, feel free to get in touch with him. Thanks Wesley Parish ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: X Windows preX10R3 releases Date: Wednesday 17 October 2007 01:53 From: Jim Gettys <jg at laptop dot org> To: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise dot net dot nz> Yup. I have bits back to the very beginning of X, and slightly before.... I have snapshots of our RCS pool back into 1984 or so; unfortunately, I did not copy the RCS pool itself which would have every commit. I also have copies of the X Consortium backups; in there are ClearCase databases which the RCS pool was imported into, and may have the commit by commit history back to the beginning for many files; but it will take someone with ClearCase expertise to retrieve things from that. I've been meaning to do something with these for the last couple years, but have been too busy with OLPC to follow up. Regards, - Jim Gettys On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 21:19 +1300, Wesley Parish wrote: > Hi. I'm a part of TUHS, The (amorphous ;) Unix Heritage Society, and was > wondering on the mail list about the X Window System releases prior to > X11Rx, in relation to a Groklaw article on Yet Another Stupid Lawsuit aimed > at Red Hat and Novell: > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071011205044141 > referencing some basic aspects of X Window architecture. I was referred to > google, and the presence of the X10R[3 4] which apparently were the first > public release. > > I then wondered about the existence of the releases even earlier than > X10R3, and Paul Jones, formerly of the DEC Systems Research Center, advised > me to contact you in relation to this. He also says to say "Hi". > > Thanks for any help you can give on this question. > > Wesley Parish -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ------------------------------------------------------- -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

17 years, 8 months

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X Windows System X<11

by Wesley Parish

Is any such creature available? X11 is >10 years old; apparently the last X10 release was in 1986. Does that source code exist anywhere now? Or has it vanished into the Great Bit-Bucket in the Sky? Thansk Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

17 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] X Windows System X<11

by Paul McJones

> >> I have X10R3 and X10R4 archives. >> I have found it somewhere in google some years ago, I do not remember >> now where, probably MIT or so. If it is allowed to upload it I can >> upload it to TUHS. >> But perhaps they are still available . >> > > I've just run through a quite search of X[1 10]R[1 3] and X10R[3 4] seems to > be the only members of that vintage. One fragment on google said that that > was because it was the first example of the code to be released outside of > MIT. > Have you tried contacting Jim Gettys? His home page (http://www.handhelds.org/People/jg.html) says: "jg" can be sent mail at freedesktop dot org. Paul

17 years, 8 months

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QNX sources

by Jose R. Valverde

Good news! Yesterday I connected again to QNX.com (as I usually do every two or three months) to see whether there was any new release when I found out that it is now released with a "mixed" license, being free for academic and non-commercial use, and -here's the interesting bit- it now includes the full source code to the operating system (microkernel, real time, SMP support, etc...) and comes with a perpetual license (for academic, non-commercial use). You can download the full sources, recompile and modify it and browse the subversion repository online. It has some restrictions of course. It's great as QNX is one of the traditional non-ATT derived UNIX and has been considered the best Real Time operating system for ages. So, while it may not be possible to include the sources in TUHS yet, at least it might be worth having some links on the TUHS site to Sun's Opensolaris and QNX sites so people may know where to get the sources for them. It may seem 'moot' from a 'heritage' point of view now, but it may pay off later if some one keeps private copies of these sources for the record. Who knows how long will the current trend last? And may be we can contact them and ask for permission to include a copy of the tree on the archive (they leave the door open to that) just for historical purposes (with all due disclaimers and acknowledgements). See http://www.qnx.com j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

17 years, 8 months

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NeWS, anybody?

by Wesley Parish

groklaw has some details about Yet Another SCO-Group-ism: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071011205044141 that appears to be about windowing systems. I'm wondering, would Sun's NeWS be of any value or interest in this situation? And if so, does anyone have suitably detailed SDKs, DDKs, whathaveyou, of NeWS? (It would be nice if Sun would release it plus source code to TuHS under a suitable license ... but though dreams are free, they don't fill the belly ;) Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

17 years, 8 months

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Running RENO on windows via SIMH...

by Jason Stevens

I don't know if anyone would be interested in this... http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=204974&package_id=245… I've hacked up a copy of simh to include slirp (usermode networking from qemu), and packed up a copy of 4.3RENO. It should be pretty easy for Windows users to just install & hit the "run 4.3BSD-RENO" icon... The download is just under 90 megabytes, and I've included nearly 80 pdf's.. Unfortunatly not all of the converted cleanly.. At any rate I'm sure the base install needs more tweaking, and I should load more software onto the /usr/local drive (which I've made a seperate disk to allow for easy updating..) As always feel free to download & give it a test. At the least it should be a painfee install & run. Jason

17 years, 9 months

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mach & nextstep.

by Jason Stevens

I was wondering with 32v being released, does anyone have all the mach source? As you probably know CMU released 3.0, but I was wondering about 1.0 & 2.0. Additionally does anyone have NeXTSTEP source? I've read that they did make it available to universities, I'd just hate to see it die... Or even old copies of Darwin, which seem to have dissapeared from Apple (or I'm just searching wrong)... Thanks!

17 years, 9 months

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New V7 port available

by Robert Nordier

A new port of UNIX Version 7 to the x86 (IA-32) based PC is now available. The port, called V7/x86, was originally done around 1999: "as something to do with the UNIX source code", when the $100 source licences first became available. Over the last year or so, I've been working intermittently at preparing it for release. In classic porting style, the port includes a 16- and 32-bit UNIX-style x86 assembler written from scratch, though the next step of conjuring pcc to emit 32-bit x86 code was not done. Originally, the system used the TenDRA C compiler, but TenDRA is huge and this was never a good match. (Without demand paging, and with restrictions on the size of the buffer cache, there is a definite limit to how big you want much-used binaries to be.) However, since the Amsterdam Compiler Kit was released as open source, the ACK K&R compiler, with a backend revised to speak "as" rather than "ACK assembler", works very well. V7/x86 currently supports ATA (IDE) hard drives, ATAPI CD drives, a 1.44M floppy drive, and standard serial ports, in addition to the usual PC screen and keyboard. For easier installation and setup, supplied utilities allow access to CD (ISO 9660) and FAT (MS-DOS) filesystems. Boot code uses the PC BIOS. At present, there is no SCSI support. Overall, the system is stable and quite generally usable. For instance, it is an easy-ish task to build the V7/x86 distribution on V7 itself, including packaging it as a small CDROM image. When using the C shell, together with contemporary versions of vi and more, one even tends to forget this is V7. (Given the absence of X and TCP/IP, the overall "feel" of the system is something like an early SCO System V release: though possibly not so unreliable.) The port was originally done more for the sheer pleasure of getting to grips with the V7 source code than for any good reason. But I've since spent a bit of effort trying to put together a fairly usable release -- though there will be plenty of rough edges -- in the hope that, for instance, some school or college might eventually take the thing up as a vehicle for students to get practical experience on. After all, it really is possible to write (say) a device driver from scratch and get it working in the course of only one or two evenings. Of course, the PDP-11 original can be (and I hope still is) used for that purpose, but presumably PC architecture, and devices, and assembly language, would all be part of a modern curriculum, anyway, leaving fewer layers of obscurity for the student. Anyway, if any of you would like to take a look at the thing (even if only to point out some of the more egregious of the remaining errors) the link is http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/ Apart from actually installing the system on some suitable PC, it is also possible to boot from the CDROM or floppy image and then simply quit out of the install utility to the shell prompt. Alternatively, the system can be fairly readily run under Bochs or some other emulator, using the available "demo" image. There is a short user-oriented introductory document, with examples, here http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/doc/v7x86intro.pdf What is presently lacking is a document containing a more technical description of the port, but I hope this will be available before too long. As far as the web pages are concerned, these were originally set up before the 10 August 2007 Judge Kimball ruling in favour of Novell. No changes have been made (to copyright notices, licence information, etc.) in the light of that ruling, though of course I will willingly make changes if and when I know what they should be. Incidentally, there's been mention, here, in the past, of one or two projects to port V7 or 32V to the PC. For all I know, these may still be ongoing: V7/x86 is an unrelated effort. -- Robert Nordier //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Nordier & Associates rnordier(a)nordier.com Telephone: +27 31 261-4895 PO Box 11266, Marine Parade, 4056, South Africa Mobile : +27 72 265-2390 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

17 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1

by lm＠bitmover.com

> Awesome work. I notice that you require at least a 486 to run this > though. Is there any technical reason, or could this be moved to a 386 > by means of a simple recompile? Also, how 32-bit IS the port? Would it > be hard to build a 286 version or even 8086/8088 version to give a > real OS to the old XT/AT in the basement? No offense intended, but why waste time on 386 (or even way more time on 286)? I can't imagine that anyone has any of those machines anymore. And if anyone is so broke that they do and can't afford a newer machine I have piles of celeron boxes looking for a home. 300-500mhz with 64-128M and probably a broken disk but maybe it works. You pay shipping and they are yours. If you are doing interesting work and you are really broke I'll pay shipping. But 286? Come on. Let it go, it sucked. I can almost see the point of 386 except that nobody has one. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

17 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] New V7 port available

by tuhs＠cuzuco.com

> From: "Michael Kerpan" <madcrow.maxwell(a)gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:44:27 -0400 > > Awesome work. I notice that you require at least a 486 to run this > though. Is there any technical reason, or could this be moved to a 386 > by means of a simple recompile? Also, how 32-bit IS the port? Would it > be hard to build a 286 version or even 8086/8088 version to give a > real OS to the old XT/AT in the basement? 8086 lacks the required protected mode. don't remember how xenix over came this problem when it was first released. no one even has to think about this problem today

17 years, 9 months

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780 System III tape images

by Al Kossow

I've placed two sets of 800bpi 780 System III tape images temporarily under http://bitsavers.org/sysIII Curiously, they don't match. There were no dates on the tapes which are originals.

17 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] 780 System III tape images

by Andrew Warkentin

Al Kossow wrote: >I've placed two sets of 800bpi 780 System III tape images >temporarily under http://bitsavers.org/sysIII > >Curiously, they don't match. There were no dates on the tapes >which are originals. > >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > > Why do I get read errors on the second file on the first tapes of both sets under SIMH? I didn't think it was even possible for tape I/O errors to occur under SIMH unless the image is corrupted.

17 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] 780 System III tape images

by Andrew Warkentin

Al Kossow wrote: >I've placed two sets of 800bpi 780 System III tape images >temporarily under http://bitsavers.org/sysIII > >Curiously, they don't match. There were no dates on the tapes >which are originals. > > Why do I get read errors on the second file on the first tapes of both sets under SIMH? I didn't think it was even possible for tape I/O errors to occur under SIMH unless the image is corrupted.

17 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] SunOS 4.1.1?

by Jose R. Valverde

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:52:47 -0400 John Cowan <cowan(a)ccil.org> wrote: > Tim Bradshaw scripsit: > > > I'm assuming that the source isn't available at all (I wonder if Sun > > still have it?) > > It is not *legally* available, but it is *actually* available. > Like, say, _The Lord of the Rings_ in HTML. > The funny thing, if I did read correctly the filings and agreements from Groklaw is that a legal third party could probably release this code *legally* if it is *acually* available. I'm talking about something that popped up in the SCO vs IBM case: as I remember, the agreement stated that IBM was required to held confidential all information except in the case it had been made widely available by some third party. >The exception is set forth in Section 7.06(a) of the standard software agreement: > > If information relating to a SOFTWARE PRODUCT subject to this Agreement at any >time becomes available without restriction to the general public by acts not >attributable to LICENSEE or its employees, LICENSEE'S obligations under this >section shall not apply to such information after such time. Thus it seems possible that UNIX source code licensees would -in the case the code had been made available *by others* have no longer obligation to keep it confidential. But, and this is IMPORTANT, IANAL, so don't take my word for it. My guess is that even if so, most licensses will be reluctant to take any action without legal counsel, which is costly and unless they had a compelling reason to, they would therefore rather not ask, not act and not risk. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

17 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] SunOS 4.1.1?

by Andrew Warkentin

lm(a)bitmover.com wrote: >Does anyone out there have a machine or a tape? I'm looking for the >lint libraries I wrote, there were posix, psd, xpg*, etc. I was pretty >focussed, back in the day, on making it easy for people to write code >that could port easily. These days nobody cares about that stuff but >I'd like a copy of those lint libs. If you don't get why think about >how hard it is to care if it is a char* or a void* or an int or a long. > >Thanks, > >--lm >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org >https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > > Old versions of SunOS from 2.0 to 4.1.1for Sun 2, 3, and 3x can be found at http://www.sun3arc.org and http://www.soupwizard.com/sun2/

17 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 41, Issue 5

by lm＠bitmover.com

> > I'm assuming that the source isn't available at all (I wonder if Sun > > still have it?) > > It is not *legally* available, but it is *actually* available. As the guy who started this thread, I'm very grateful for the help. All I wanted was the lint libraries I wrote, those were like include files and it is hard to imagine Sun cares about those (I had to threaten to quit to get them included in the release, back in the day of 200MB disks). And while I really appreciate all the offers for the source of SunOS 4.x, I'm a CEO of a software company and it would be way over the line if I accepted any of those offers. So thanks, I appeciate it, but I hope you'll understand that I have to color inside the lines. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

17 years, 9 months

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x3270

by Andrzej Popielewicz

Hi, Does anyone of You know of any public mainframe/as400 offering public service with 3270 interface, I mean which can be contacted via x3270 running in Unix X. locis.loc.gov, serving in Library of Congress for 2 or 3 decades, seems to be gone, but perhaps there are still some survived in USA . Andrzej

17 years, 9 months

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mini-unix distribution tape recovered

by Al Kossow

I beleive I have sucessfully read a Dec, 1979 mini-unix distribution tape yesterday evening. I've placed it for the next week or so under http://bitsavers.org/miniunix It is in .tap format, which should work with SIMH. It is a single large file blocked 512 bytes/record

17 years, 9 months

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SunOS 4.1.1?

by lm＠bitmover.com

Does anyone out there have a machine or a tape? I'm looking for the lint libraries I wrote, there were posix, psd, xpg*, etc. I was pretty focussed, back in the day, on making it easy for people to write code that could port easily. These days nobody cares about that stuff but I'd like a copy of those lint libs. If you don't get why think about how hard it is to care if it is a char* or a void* or an int or a long. Thanks, --lm

17 years, 9 months

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cfront

by Steve Simon

Cfront has been released as historic source by AT&T, though I haven't found the license, the code is here: http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/c_plus_plus I am currently trying to awaken Cfront 3.03 - more an issue of understanding it than repairing bitrot. If anyone has any bugifxes or additional tools for cfront they would be willing to share I would be very interested. I will post again if/when I get it all to work. Thanks -Steve

17 years, 9 months

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Invite from Sergey Lapin (slapinid@gmail.com)

by Sergey Lapin

Join Sergey on Quechup You have been invited to join SergeyLapin's friends network http://quechup.com/ - REGISTER NOW FOR FREE and find out why everyone's joining As a member of Quechup you can... - Start a blog and share your thoughts with private groups, friends or the world - Get in touch with old friends. - Meet new people in your area, or anywhere else in the world. - Online instant messenger with full video and audio support. - Socialize with 'friends-of-friends' and mutual acquaintances. - Increase your social circle ... and so much more! Become part of Sergey's Quechup.com friends. New & Coming Soon on Quechup -------------------------------- - Games - play Solitaire, Mahjong, Dice, Bubble Up and more online - Blogs - let people know what you're up to - Video Posts - use your webcam to record video clips on Quechup - Member Comments - on photos and blogs ------------------------------------------------------------------ You received this because Sergey Lapin (slapinid(a)gmail.com) knows and agreed to invite you. You will only receive one invitation from slapinid(a)gmail.com. Quechup will not spam or sell your email address, see our privacy policy - http://quechup.com/privacy.php Go to http://quechup.com/emailunsubscribe.php/ZW09dHVoc0BtaW5uaWUudHVocy5vcmc%3D if you do not wish to receive any more emails from Quechup. ------------------------------------------------------------------ This e-mail was sent on behalf of SergeyCopyright Quechup.com 2007. Quechup.com is owned by iDate Ltd

18 years

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[pups] A tool to compare code trees, plus a favour

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, back in 2004 I wrote a tool to compare sets of C code trees, as a response to the SCO vs. IBM lawsuit. I've revisited and improved the performance of the tool, and I have released a new version at http://minnie.tuhs.org/Programs/Ctcompare/ The tool produces a tokenised representation of each source tree in a format called CTF. The CTF representation of a proprietary source tree can be exported without revealing too much of the source code. See http://minnie.tuhs.org/Programs/Ctcompare/README.txt for the full details. I would dearly love to get hold of some CTF files of more recent UNIX source trees, i.e. from SysVR4 onwards, and especially the Unixware source trees which relate the the SCO vs. IBM lawsuit. If you can make them available to me, I would appreciate it. I understand that you might wish to donate these anonymously, so soon I will write a web script to allow you to upload a CTF file to my server "minnie" anonymously. Many thanks in advance! Warren

18 years, 1 month

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[pups] Surplus Kit

by robinb＠ruffnready.co.uk

Hi Guys, I'm having a bit of a clearout. Moving house and so on. I find that I have a pair of uVAX 3400s going spare. It's a long time since I've looked at these but from memory they've each got three drives and I think one of them has an external disc cab. There will be some serial cards in them and possibly, though I'm not sure, a SCSI tape drive card. There is the normal TK70 cartridge drive. They were both working when I got them and I have done nothing with them at all (they are in storage at the moment). Both have, I think, got VMS on them. These are available to collect in Cirencester in the UK. Make me an offer someone. Robin

18 years, 1 month

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[pups] sys III docs

by zmkm zmkm

Hi all just a quick question , any documentation or notes available online for unix sys III ? Like the v7 ones . Tks & rgs _________________________________________________________________ Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? Youll love Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migrati…

18 years, 1 month

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[pups] Two matters, two questions

by Wesley Parish

I've just finished reading Peter Salus' "A Quarter Century of Unix", and this time round, I was brought up short by the comments on Prime, Primos and The Software Tools. Has anyone done a simulator/emulator of the Prime? (I must confess, a hardware architecture that's described as a cross between a GE-645 and the Intel 80286, not only intrigues me, it also makes my toes curl. ;) Has anyone attempted to get a copy of PrimOS for such a simulator/emulator? And if one was to attempt such a feat, where would one go? And Spafford says, commenting on Prime's version of Software Tools, that the final release was into the public domain. Is it still extant? Has anyone seen hair or hide of the creature? That's the first matter/question. The second one is to do with /rdb, which a quick search on Google informs me, was written by Walter V. Hobbs of Rand Corp., and was placed in the public domain. It apparently is at: ftp://ftp.rand.org/pub/RDB-hobbs but I can't get through to it. Is there any copy of it extant at some site where I can get through to it? (I'm aware there is a software publisher that sells a more up-to-date version of it, but I'd like to play with the original and bring it up to date myself ;) Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Gaul is quartered into three halves. Things which are impossible are equal to each other. Guerrilla warfare means up to their monkey tricks. Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom of the foolish. ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

18 years, 1 month

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32V, 3BSD and 4.0BSD on VAX-11/780

by nao

Hi, I could make SIMH VAX-11/780 emulator run 32V, 3BSD and 4.0BSD successfully. You can see (rather tarse) details on my web site: http://zazie.tom-yam.or.jp/starunix/ Enjoy! Naoki Hamada nao(a)tom-yam.or.jp

18 years, 2 months

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[pups] hyperlinked 2.11bsd source code

by Walter F.J. Mueller

to all 2.11bsd users: when searching through the 2.11bsd code I wanted many times a hyperlinked and cross referenced rendition of the sources, much like doxygen or lxr does it. For kernel, lib and user code, for c and assembler. Since none of the existing tools seemed to do what I wanted I wrote a perl script generating such a html'ized version of the source code. The tool far from finished, but starts to be useful. The results from what I'd call an early alpha version are now available. Just start with either the tar source http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/bin/tar.c.html or the kernel init routine http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/sys/sys/init_main.c.ht… and click a little around. The style sheet is still the debug version, not all links end where they should. The cross reference sections aren't complete, but already useful. To see for example who is using setjmp see http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/src/lib/libc/pdp/gen/setjm… or who is including nlist.h see http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/test/211bsd/usr/include/nlist.h.html#xref:… The background color tells you in which territory you are in magenta boot and standalone code red kernel orange network code (running in supervisor) green libraries blue user level code Hope you enjoy it. With best regards, Walter -- Dr. Walter F.J. Müller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller(a)gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

18 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] Advice on which PDP-11 processor handbook to buy

by Walter F.J. Mueller

Hi Ross, you'll find on the Bitsavers Site (http://www.bitsavers.org) lots of documents, some handbooks under http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/handbooks/ and the "PDP-11 Processor Handbook - PDP11/04/34a/44/60/70" under http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/handbooks/PDP11_Handbook1979.pdf Under http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11 is quite a bit on various pdp-11 models, for example the "KB11-C Processor Manual (PDP-11/70)" http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/1170/EK-KB11C-TM-001_1170procMan.pdf in case you'd like to go into details :). With best regards, Walter -- Dr. Walter F.J. Müller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller(a)gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

18 years, 5 months

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Re: [pups] Advice on which PDP-11 processor handbook to buy

by Kevin McQuiggin

Why not just download one from one of the many online archives? Most of them are in PDF format. On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:25:52 -0800 iking(a)killthewabbit.org wrote: > Wow, they're saying $40 for the 1978 book? I don't think I'll lend out my > copy.... > > FYI, I run v6 on a PDP-11/34a with RK05 drives. The kernel that boots up > from the install media tries to be pretty generic, and yes, you can make > changes to it to optimize it for various platforms. > > So the real question is: what do you want to do? If you just want to run a > PDP-11 in emulation, any of these books will do fine for you. The basic > PDP-11 instruction set is pretty constant across the series (with some > niggling exceptions, but nothing you're likely to deal with in an > emulator). > There were extended instruction sets for some models, but again with an > emulator you can play to your heart's content. There were some differences > in memory management, which may or may not be important depending on what > you want to run; again, v6 runs fine on an 11/34 without separate I/D > spaces, while v7 and 2.11BSD require it (as I recall). But once > again, simh > will let you rock on with any of these OS's. > > For understanding Lions (i.e. understanding the underlying hardware > better), > any of these will do. IMHO, YMMV, MOUSE. And welcome to the community! > Cheers -- Ian > > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Ross Tucker > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:11 PM > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: [pups] Advice on which PDP-11 processor handbook to buy > > Hello all- > I'm a n00b on this list, so please forgive me my sins as I forgive those > who.... uh, never mind. Anyway, I am looking to get a "PDP-11 Processor > Handbook" from Amazon or eBay (so I can understand the Lions > book) and there are so many different editions and versions... Lions writes > about the 11/40, but supposedly, that's not too different from the /45 or > /70. My simh boot images for v6 are for the /45 (though supposedly I'm > supposed to be able to modify them to run on the others, right?). > > What I'm asking is your advice on which Handbook to buy. Here is a synopsis > on the editions and prices from amazon: > /04/34A/44/60/70 (1979) $10 > /04/34/45/55/60 (1978) $40 > /70 (1975) $16 > /04, 24, 34A, 70 (Jun 1981) $16 > /04/05/10/35/40/45 (1975) $45 > > What do you think? > > Thanks for your time, > Ross > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups >

18 years, 5 months

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[pups] Advice on which PDP-11 processor handbook to buy

by Ross Tucker

Hello all- I'm a n00b on this list, so please forgive me my sins as I forgive those who.... uh, never mind. Anyway, I am looking to get a "PDP-11 Processor Handbook" from Amazon or eBay (so I can understand the Lions book) and there are so many different editions and versions... Lions writes about the 11/40, but supposedly, that's not too different from the /45 or /70. My simh boot images for v6 are for the /45 (though supposedly I'm supposed to be able to modify them to run on the others, right?). What I'm asking is your advice on which Handbook to buy. Here is a synopsis on the editions and prices from amazon: /04/34A/44/60/70 (1979) $10 /04/34/45/55/60 (1978) $40 /70 (1975) $16 /04, 24, 34A, 70 (Jun 1981) $16 /04/05/10/35/40/45 (1975) $45 What do you think? Thanks for your time, Ross

18 years, 5 months

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RAND editor e19

by Gunnar Ritter

Hi, does anyone still have the source code for the RAND editor e19 <http://www.rand.org/pubs/notes/N2239-1/>? One can read on the net that it was once available as public domain from ftp.rand.org, but this machine seems not available anymore. There is an archive rand.tar.Z in the 2.10 (BSD) directory of CSRG CD 1, but this contains the older version e14. I think it would be good to also have the final version e19 in the Unix archive. Thanks Gunnar

18 years, 6 months

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[pups] 2.11BSD Patch 445; FPSIM fixed; 211bsd runs on systems without FPP

by Walter F.J. Mueller

A note to all 2.11bsd users: Some time ago I looked into running 2.11bsd on systems without floating point unit. The release notes state that this is untested and unsupported, and indeed it didn't work. Robin Birch some time ago fixed part of the issues, see patch 434, but still the kernel paniced when the very first program was started. I managed to localize and fix the problem in sys/pdp/mch_fpsim.s. Steven Schultz right away issued 2.11BSD patch #445. All patches up to and including 445 are provided by Steven under ftp://sg-1.ims.ideas.gd-ais.com/pub/2.11BSD A patch level 445 system will now boot on simh for example on a set cpu 11/70 nofpp 4m configuration and work just fine, albeit a little slower. It should thus also work on a real 11/70 without FPP. I heard of some 11/70 with non-working FPP's, so this maybe good news for the owners. With best regards, Walter Mueller -- Dr. Walter F.J. Müller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller(a)gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

18 years, 6 months

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running unix v7 on a pdp emulator

by Karim Hamidou

Happy new year. My name is karim hamidou and i'm french (you've surely noticed that my prose isn't bright) and i'd like to run unix v7 on the pdp emulator sim-2.3. Do you know how to run it ? I hope that my question isn't quite inappropriate. Thanks for your help. Regards. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

18 years, 6 months

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V7 prompts

by Bill Cunningham

Hellwig, It's been a long time since I've been able to play with the simulator. Now I can't seem to get into V7. Can you point to me the page online because I don't have a .ps viewer that shows the commands again with the tapes and disks. tm(0,3) and so on. Bill

18 years, 6 months

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SCCS source code available

by Gunnar Ritter

Hi, Sun has released the source code to the SCCS version control system: <http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=79598&tstart=0#79598> I have created a portable variant of it at <http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/devtools.html>. Gunnar

18 years, 6 months

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booting vanilla v7 on simh problem

by Abel

While looking for virgin/vanilla v6 and v7 tapes to boot on simh, I'm kinda stuck. And since simh mailing list wasn't much help, cuz seems there mostly vax/vms guys, maybe it's someone here to help me out. V6.tape from Ken Wellsch was quite easy to boot, by cutting three rk images directly from it by means of "dd", then booting the root image and mounting source and doc where it should belong. Also it boots nicely in more traditional way off the tape by using "ltap" script from "www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os" and then following the standard install procedure for v6. The same "ltap" set of commands or it's slightly shorter version like this one: d 100000 012700 d 100002 172526 d 100004 010040 d 100006 012740 d 100010 060003 d 100012 172522 d 100014 105737 d 100016 172522 d -h 100020 80FD d 100022 005007 run 100000 boots "catted" in one file Keith Bostic v7 bits of tape, up to the Boot : promt. But when calling mkfs or restor programs by "tm(0,3)" or "tm(0,4)", the simh just hangs indefinitely. Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong maybe? Thank you. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.

18 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 35, Issue 4

by lm＠bitmover.com

> for new code (and Sys V is mostly new enough, unlike Unix V32) after Hmm. I'm coming into this late so maybe I'm not seeing the full context. If the statement is that V32 != Sys V I have to disagree, I've read all of 32V source (kernel and user and I mean all of it. It's not like I had deep understanding of every line but my eyes have seen every line of code in 32V, it's not that big). I've also read large chunks of Sys V - not all of it, but depending on the release, fairly large chunks, like 80% or more. The idea that most stuff was rewritten in Sys V is not true, not even slightly true. I dunno if that is what is being claimed but if it is that's silly. Most of the stuff is the same, especially in userspace but also in the kernel, tons of the kernel is unchanged. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

18 years, 7 months

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Open Sourcing IRIX?

by Lord Doomicus

Since SGI is EOL'ing IRIX at the end of the year, has anyone asked them if they would donate it's source ( under some sort of OSI license of course ) to the UNIX archive? Or is there too much SysV code in it? It would be cool to have easy access to the older IRIX versions for older SGI hardware. - Derrik Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE lorddoomicus(a)mac.com http://www.doomd.net ... I am using an Apple Macintosh to design the Cray-3 supercomputer. -- Seymour Cray, 1986

18 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] original vi under Linux?

by Aharon Robbins

> http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net Thanks to both of the people who just replied with this answer! I didn't know about this but will look at it ASAP. Arnold

18 years, 7 months

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original vi under Linux?

by Aharon Robbins

Hi. Has anyone managed to compile a version of the original BSD vi under Linux? I'm looking from something from the 4.3 to 4.4 vintage sources. I made a stab at the Open Solaris version of vi, but could only get so far. Thanks, Arnold Robbins

18 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] Open Sourcing IRIX?

by Michael Kerpan

Caldera changed very drastically as a company at the time it changed its name to SCO). Ancient Unix was opened up in January of 2002. In June of that year, the CEO of Caldera was forcibly replaced with an M$-backed anti-open source crusader. It was at that point that Caldera stopped selling its Linux distro, changed its name to SCO and started suing any company involved with Linux. On 11/28/06, Robert Tillyard <rob(a)vetsystems.com> wrote: > > On 28 Nov 2006, at 13:17, Michael Kerpan wrote: > > > That would never happen as it's SCO, not Novell, that owns System V > > and SCO is a M$-funded anti-open source crusader. > > Didn't SCO open up the early UNIX versions on TUHS now? and I thought > that previously Caldera had opened some old OSs like DR-DOS or CP-M. > > Regards, Rob. >

18 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX V6 line 3973: Is it really a typo?

by Brian S Walden

See the December 2002 discussion threads "V6: 50 bugs tape" and "Patches to improve 6th Edition" in the archive (http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2002-December/date.html) While not specifically mentioned in those mails it is part of the 50 bugs tape -- you'll want to extract usr/sys/v6unix/* from http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Spencer_Tapes/unsw3.tar.gz and you'll see it fixed in usr/sys/v6unix/updat/ken/sig.c > From: jigsaw <jigsaw(a)gmail.com> > Subject: [TUHS] UNIX V6 line 3973: Is it really a typo? > > hi all, > > It's stated in Lion's book chapter 13.13 that at line 3973, i.e. the > function psignal, there is a typo where the p_stat should be p_pri. > > Is there anyone can confirm it? > > If it's really a bug, why it remains p_stat in UNIX V7? > > Thanks in advance > > Qinglai

18 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX V6 line 3973: Is it really a typo?

by jigsaw

hi Hellwig, Thanks for pointing out. I was viewing actually the V6's source while I had thought it's V7. Thanks & Regards, Qinglai On 10/17/06, Hellwig Geisse <Hellwig.Geisse(a)mni.fh-giessen.de> wrote: > Hi Qinglai, > > On Tue, 2006-10-17 at 14:26 +0800, jigsaw wrote: > > If it's really a bug, why it remains p_stat in UNIX V7? > > it was changed in V7 to p_pri (file sig.c, lines 64/65). > > Regards, > Hellwig > >

18 years, 8 months

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UNIX V6 line 3973: Is it really a typo?

by jigsaw

hi all, It's stated in Lion's book chapter 13.13 that at line 3973, i.e. the function psignal, there is a typo where the p_stat should be p_pri. Is there anyone can confirm it? If it's really a bug, why it remains p_stat in UNIX V7? Thanks in advance Qinglai

18 years, 8 months

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[pups] thrust meter?

by Brian Knittel

The thrust meter project -- was that an analog meter that displayed % CPU utilization? I remember that Tom Ferrin had one mounted in the middle of a DEC panel filler on the 11/70 at the Computer Graphics Lab at UCSF. It was really delightful having this analog meter bouncing up and down as people worked away. Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian(a)quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com

18 years, 9 months

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[pups] User Mode DoS Attacks (was Re: Issues of AUUGN)

by Milo Velimirovic

> But you'd need kernel mode for that; this is a DoS attack (one of the > first?) launched by a user. The userland DoS I remember: main() { while(1) fork(); } And in fact I tried it once on the 11/45 I had access to. Not pretty. It can be made less disastrous by judicious addition of a wait(); call. --Milo, wondering how contemporary UNIX will deal with such pathological behavior.... -- Milo Velimirović University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W -- There's a reason Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson have been awarded the U.S. National Medal of Technology (1998) and are fellows of the Computer History Museum Online. Dave Cutler hasn't and isn't. "You are not expected to understand this."

18 years, 9 months

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Re: [pups] Issues of AUUGN

by Dave Horsfall

[ Meant to go to list, but sent to DMR only by mistake. ] On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > > It contains the famous Thrust Meter, a few papers by Yours Truly, and > > I think it has the short assembly program that would bring a PDP-11/70 > > to its knees (the infamous "SPL" firmware bug). > > Was this the feature (not really a bug; it's in the manual) that SPL > suppressed interrupts for one instruction after the SPL? I suppose it > was indeed a bug that this happened even in user mode where SPL was > intended to be a no-op. Yep, that's the one. I regard it as a bug because it indeed happened in user mode... > I remember trying this. It depends on completely filling memory with > SPLs, which I could not figure out how to do using an instruction > sequence. However, putting a bunch of SPLs into a file and reading it > in over the program did the job. There was a clever assembly program that did it; it relied upon the instruction counter wrapping around (I can't remember in which direction, or whether it first relocated itself). Anyone, it managed to fill memory with SPLs, so the next instruction after overwriting its last instruction was SPL, and for the foreseeable future after that... If I find the article I'll post it here; I don't think there are too many 11/70s still in public operation. > It was a bit hard to break out of--the halt switch didn't work. At first > I thought that power-off was the only solution, but it turned out that > holding down both reset and halt simultaneously did the job. I'll remember that, should I ever see an emulator :-) I still remember Ian Johnstone cursing me... -- Dave

18 years, 9 months

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[pups] Issues of AUUGN...

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Dave Horsfall mentioned, about some old editions of AUUGN, > It contains the famous Thrust Meter, a few papers by Yours Truly, and I > think it has the short assembly program that would bring a PDP-11/70 to > its knees (the infamous "SPL" firmware bug). Was this the feature (not really a bug; it's in the manual) that SPL suppressed interrupts for one instruction after the SPL? I suppose it was indeed a bug that this happened even in user mode where SPL was intended to be a no-op. I remember trying this. It depends on completely filling memory with SPLs, which I could not figure out how to do using an instruction sequence. However, putting a bunch of SPLs into a file and reading it in over the program did the job. It was a bit hard to break out of--the halt switch didn't work. At first I thought that power-off was the only solution, but it turned out that holding down both reset and halt simultaneously did the job. Dennis

18 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] Reading UNIX V6: Does eash process has its own user structure, or all the processes share one copy of it?

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, at http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/script/chapt2.2 I tried to explain the dynamic memory allocation in Unix V6. Greetings, Wolfgang -- "Dijkstra is right, but you don't say such things!" (A less courageous programmer)

18 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] Reading UNIX V6: Does eash process has its own user

by jigsaw

hi Brantley, Now I start to understand what's going on. But do you mean 0744 by 0743? 0743 mov (sp), r0 0744 mov $_u, r0 And 2230 should be 2229, which is: 2229 sureg(); Thanks & Regards, Qinglai On 10/3/06, Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com> wrote: > Rp->p_addr is the address of the swappable image in core. The process > image begins with the user segment for that process. Line 0743 maps > the upage into the current address space (KISA6) and _retu loads > previously saved sp and r5 from there. Notice that on line 2230 > Ken reloads the other memory mapping registers. > > Read the section `Memory Management' starting on page 2-4 for background > on this. > > > U.u_rsave is just a constant location in memory. Notice that rp->p_addr > isn't a byte address but a core click address in units of 64 bytes. > > Hope that helps. > > Brantley > > > The final question is about how savu/retu work. > > > > savu: > > line 0729 and line 0730: r5 and sp are saved to (r0) and (r0)+, which > > are the address of u.u_rsav. > > > > retu: > > 0746 and 0747: sp and r5 are read from (r0) and (r0)+, which is > > "rp->p_addr" (see line 2228). It looks weird to me. (Okay...I have to > > confess I look stupid here...) When making call to retu, why bother > > "retu(rp->p_addr)"? Why not calling with "retu(u.u_rsav)"? Does it > > mean that rp->p_addr == u.u_rsav? > >

18 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] Having trouble with V6 source code

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, I'd like to add http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/as.ps as a reference to the assembler of Unix V6. >See the assembler section of vol 2b of the Unix V7 manuals for details at > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.pdf >or > http://web.cuzuco.com/%7Ecuzuco/v7/v7vol2b.pdf Greetings, Wolfgang -- "Dijkstra is right, but you don't say such things!" (A less courageous programmer)

18 years, 9 months

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Reading UNIX V6: Does eash process has its own user structure, or all the processes share one copy of it?

by jigsaw

hi All, Again, I run into problems when reading slp.c and savu/retu. Actually, I have 3 questions. First, I doubt whether all processes share one "u" or each process has its own "u". line 0402: One allocated per process. It seems that each process has its own user structure. But the "u" is defined as a universal variable (line 0459), and the line 0407 clearly states that the "u" resides at virtual kernel loc 140000. So isn't it saying that there's only one "u" in the core memory? This concept is very important, because it's bound tightly with savu/retu mechanism. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now comes the second question: The savu procedure is supposed to save r5 and sp to u.u_rsav, and the retu is supposed to reset the r5 and sp with the saved values. If each process has its own u, then savu/retu simply work fine. But if all processes share one u, the newest call to savu will overwrite the previously saved values of r5 and sp, so that retu is not able to get back the r5/sp again! The story is like this: 1889: r5/sp of process #1 are saved to u.u_rsav 2189: r5/sp of process #0 are saved! Thus overwriting the values of process #1. So when we are coming to 2228, how can retu work in a way as it is expected to? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The final question is about how savu/retu work. savu: line 0729 and line 0730: r5 and sp are saved to (r0) and (r0)+, which are the address of u.u_rsav. retu: 0746 and 0747: sp and r5 are read from (r0) and (r0)+, which is "rp->p_addr" (see line 2228). It looks weird to me. (Okay...I have to confess I look stupid here...) When making call to retu, why bother "retu(rp->p_addr)"? Why not calling with "retu(u.u_rsav)"? Does it mean that rp->p_addr == u.u_rsav? OMG, I am totally confused... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess It's kind of boring to read my question...but hopefully someone can give me some hint...Thanks in advance! Regards, Qinglai

18 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] Having trouble with V6 source code

by Jose R Valverde

No. On PDP 11 assembler the left and right shifts were a single < and >. You made a typo when transcribing the source statement: you typed > 0636: mov $USIZE-1/<8|6, (r1)+ but the actual code from m40.s reads > 0636: mov $usize-1\<8|6,(r1)+ However, since < and > where also used to delimit strings, there was a need to escape them so as to distinguish their usage as shifts from the string delimiters. The escaping was achieved by \ which is what you see in the code. See the assembler section of vol 2b of the Unix V7 manuals for details at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.pdf or http://web.cuzuco.com/%7Ecuzuco/v7/v7vol2b.pdf namely: 6.1 Expression operators The operators are: (blank) when there is no operand between operands, the effect is exactly the same as if a + had appeared. + addition subtraction * multiplication \/ division (note that plain / starts a comment) & bitwise and | bitwise or \> logical right shift \< logical left shift ... ... ... j On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:44:58 +0300 jigsaw <jigsaw(a)gmail.com> wrote: > hi all, > > I just started to read the source code of V6 with Lion's book. > > But before I went far I was stopped by m40.s > > 0636: mov $USIZE-1/<8|6, (r1)+ > > What does the slash "/" stand for? > > I guess this line should be > > mov $USIZE-1<<8|6, (r1)+ > > Is "/<" the same as "<<"? > > I checked in Unix PDP11 Assemble Refrence Manual but didn't find a clue. > > Is it the right place to ask such question? > > Thanks in advance > > Regards, > > Qinglai ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

18 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] Having trouble with V6 source code

by Jose R Valverde

No. On PDP 11 assembler the left and right shifts were a single < and >. You made a typo when transcribing the source statement: you typed > 0636: mov $USIZE-1/<8|6, (r1)+ but the actual code from m40.s reads > 0636: mov $usize-1\<8|6,(r1)+ However, since < and > where also used to delimit strings, there was a need to escape them so as to distinguish their usage as shifts from the string delimiters. The escaping was achieved by \ which is what you see in the code. See the assembler section of vol 2b of the Unix V7 manuals for details at http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.pdf or http://web.cuzuco.com/%7Ecuzuco/v7/v7vol2b.pdf namely: 6.1 Expression operators The operators are: (blank) when there is no operand between operands, the effect is exactly the same as if a + had appeared. + addition subtraction * multiplication \/ division (note that plain / starts a comment) & bitwise and | bitwise or \> logical right shift \< logical left shift ... ... ... j On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:44:58 +0300 jigsaw <jigsaw(a)gmail.com> wrote: > hi all, > > I just started to read the source code of V6 with Lion's book. > > But before I went far I was stopped by m40.s > > 0636: mov $USIZE-1/<8|6, (r1)+ > > What does the slash "/" stand for? > > I guess this line should be > > mov $USIZE-1<<8|6, (r1)+ > > Is "/<" the same as "<<"? > > I checked in Unix PDP11 Assemble Refrence Manual but didn't find a clue. > > Is it the right place to ask such question? > > Thanks in advance > > Regards, > > Qinglai ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

18 years, 9 months

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Having trouble with V6 source code

by jigsaw

hi all, I just started to read the source code of V6 with Lion's book. But before I went far I was stopped by m40.s 0636: mov $USIZE-1/<8|6, (r1)+ What does the slash "/" stand for? I guess this line should be mov $USIZE-1<<8|6, (r1)+ Is "/<" the same as "<<"? I checked in Unix PDP11 Assemble Refrence Manual but didn't find a clue. Is it the right place to ask such question? Thanks in advance Regards, Qinglai

18 years, 9 months

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[pups] Issues of AUUGN from Vol 1 No 1 onwards available

by Dave Horsfall

Whilst looking for a recent AUUGN mine eyes espied a pile of old AUUGNs, from Vol 1 No 1 (October 1978) to Vol 3 No 6 (Aug/Sep 1981). And I know I have the rest of them somewhere, but they're probably packed away. It contains the famous Thrust Meter, a few papers by Yours Truly, and I think it has the short assembly program that would bring a PDP-11/70 to its knees (the infamous "SPL" firmware bug). Free to an *organisation* that can use them, on condition they never get chucked out and are available for viewing (even if as a PDF). Due to a "senior moment" I've already made this offer to AUUG. -- Dave

18 years, 9 months

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[pups] Greeting from new comer!

by Tian Wen-A2312Z

Hi,buddies Nice to meet you all.I am a new comer from ChengDu,China.I am very interested in Unix and PDP an now I am reading the book <Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition with Source Code> ,which make me so excited.It's indeed an great book for me to understand the principle and detail of the UNIX, however, I am a self-learner without chance to discuss with others around me, so I am glad to join you and have a chance to learn from all of you. Thanks! Best Regards Tian Wen

18 years, 9 months

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games

by Bill Cunningham

You know Pat I looked under PDP and BSD 4.2 directories and I don't think I'm finding the distro you are meaning. I looked under the VAX directory to and I'm not finding the system you mentioned. Bill

18 years, 10 months

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Still no luck building an Ultrix-11 image for SIMH

by Madcrow Maxwell

I've already posted all sorts of information previously, but the thread seems to have gotten caught in some downtime over the weekend. Anyway, does anybody have any idea what I might be doing wrong? Prior posts are in the web archive. Michael "Madcrow" K.

18 years, 10 months

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Re: [pups] bitsavers document

by Milo Velimirovic

> Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:24:29 -0700 (PDT) > From: Martin Lovick <martin_lovick(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: [pups] bitsavers document > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20060614232429.78414.qmail(a)web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > whilst looking around the bitsavers.org pdf archive, I > found a document called > PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocument_Jun72.pdf. > Having had a quick scan through, it contains a source > code listing and some commentary (lions i hear you > say). No, not Lions. The author is listed on the first page as one T. R. Bashkow. > The strange thing is that all of the source code > appears to be in assembler... yup. This would be an early pdp11 UNIX from the period before the rewrite in C. > > whats this about? It appears to be a listing of an assembly language version of an early UNIX kernel for the pdp11 in the pages labelled E*-*; the pages F*-* are a commentary; G*-* is a glossary of terms used; H*-* contains a description of each function in the kernel with complete details of each function. > > is it a comentary of PDP-7 unix? It's (Bell Labs flavor) pdp11 assembly language. > > regards > > Martin -- Milo Velimirović <milov(a)uwlax.edu> Unix Computer Network Administrator 608-785-6618 Office ITS Network Services 608-386-2817 Cell University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W -- Unix: Where /etc/init is job #1.

18 years, 10 months

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Building a tape IMAGE of Fred's Ultrix-11 3.1

by Madcrow Maxwell

I downloaded the tape building kit of Fred's enhanced Ultrix 3.1 and set about trying to build an image file suitable for use with SIMH. As simply modifying the included script to write to a normal file instead of a (non-existant) tape device failed, I tried doing things by hand, running maketape and then "cat"ing the file it created along with all the other files "dd"ed by the script into a single file. While this produced a file that looked about the right size, it didn't work with SIMH as mounting it to the emulated TK50 device and booting produced: HALT instruction, PC: 016300 (CLR R3) Any help on how to get a working image available so that my nerdy history project can proceed? Mike "Madcrow" K.

18 years, 10 months

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games and UNIX V7

by Bill Cunningham

Does anyone know if those games available on simh's site called "Adventure" and "Dungeon" will run on the V7 ? Bill

18 years, 10 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 33, Issue 2

by Al Kossow

> I tried doing things by hand, > running maketape and then "cat"ing the file it created along with all > the other files "dd"ed by the script into a single file. You need to put file marks between everything logically 'dd'-ed In the .tap format, file marks are four bytes of 0. End of tape should have two sets of file marks (eight bytes of 0) FWIW, I sent warren a .tap image of Ultrix 2.0. Never heard anything from him about it.

18 years, 11 months

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Porting UNIX...

by Bill Cunningham

Actually what I meant Gregg was Jon Pertwee was the Doctor back in the '60s which is the time period you were referring to, and Troughton too I guess. That reminds me of an episode called "The time..." something or other with Roger Delgado. They were trying to do something with some type of computer obviously an old mini of some type and some anciet artifact. There were toggle switches and lights. Otherwise it certainly didn't look like and PDP that I've ever seen in pictures. Just to get close to one of those old things would be breathtaking. Before my time though. Bill

18 years, 11 months

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Porting UNIX from a DEC PDP-11 family member to a DG (Data General) Eclipse family member

by Gregg C Levine

Hello! I have here a Doctor Who book which takes place during the early part of the computer revolution, about the time the whole of what's discussed here happened. The people concerned in the book have machines running UNIX. Some of these are indeed PDP-11s and there are also a few DG Eclipses. Now the question: How difficult would it to port UNIX V7 from the usual machine, probably a PDP-11/43 (But I might be wrong about the model!) to a DG Eclipse? Naturally since I don't have physical hardware here, the intended target would be a SIMH DG virtual Eclipse (Or even a Nova 4) and the one doing all the work would be a SIMH PDP-11. -- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net "The Force will be with you. Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi

18 years, 11 months

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Re: [pups] V6 kernel compile help

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi Bent Lee, you asked for help > >I need help with the V6 kernel compilation. I read the Unix setup guide >and the >file /usr/sys/run. I've seen one problem so far with the /usr/sys/run >file. That is >that the two lib files (lib1 & lib2) did not contain any symbols. > >When I ran: ># ar r ../lib1 >and ># ar r ../lib2 > >I got a string of error messages from ld. which error messages? > >But after I did this: ># ar r ../lib1 *.o >and ># ar r ../lib2 *.o This might have corrupted your lib files. These two lines are only meant as templates to replace some files in your archives, that is lib[12], if necessary. But replacing an object file is necessary only if you changed the corresponding source file and recompiled it. Here are the files supposed to be in lib1: # ar t lib1 main.o alloc.o iget.o prf.o rdwri.o slp.o subr.o text.o trap.o sig.o sysent.o clock.o fio.o malloc.o nami.o pipe.o sys1.o sys2.o sys3.o sys4.o > >I have these missing symbols ># ld -x l.o m40.o c.o ../lib1 ../lib2 >Undefined: >_end (defined by ld if successful) >_edata (same) >_iinit (from alloc.c) >_iget (from iget.c) replace lib1 and lib2 with the original files and it should work! You might want to consult http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/script/chapt1.1 for help installing V6. Regards, Wolfgang -- "Dijkstra is right, but you don't say such things!" (A less courageous programmer)

18 years, 11 months

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[pups] V6 kernel compile help

by filter

Hi All I need help with the V6 kernel compilation. I read the Unix setup guide and the file /usr/sys/run. I've seen one problem so far with the /usr/sys/run file. That is that the two lib files (lib1 & lib2) did not contain any symbols. When I ran: # ar r ../lib1 and # ar r ../lib2 I got a string of error messages from ld. But after I did this: # ar r ../lib1 *.o and # ar r ../lib2 *.o I have these missing symbols # ld -x l.o m40.o c.o ../lib1 ../lib2 Undefined: _end _edata _iinit _iget _update _schar _namei _maknode _access _itrunc _iput _alloc _uchar _closef _getf Can anyone help me with this? (I saw that MIT athena has a V6 repository with a Makefile in it But I cannot access it at all. (-_-) ) thanks bent lee

18 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] weird problem with our Decwriter III terminal

by John Chung

I would start with the gears first. Stepper motor testing can be done by visual inpection by running through 1 character at a time. Mark each turn when moving to the next character. This requires diassembly of the casing and other visual blocking components. John --- tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > Send TUHS mailing list submissions to > tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > tuhs-owner(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of TUHS digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. weird problem with our Decwriter III terminal > ... (asbesto) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:38:10 +0000 > From: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> > Subject: [TUHS] weird problem with our Decwriter III > terminal ... > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > Message-ID: <20060621093810.GA24010(a)freaknet.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Hi, > > maybe someone here can help us - our problem is that > the > decwriter terminal seem to "jump" in particular > positions > when printing > > we don't understand how to solve this problem - > maybe this is a > stepper motor problem, or another problem in > gears/transmission? > > the problem is evident in this image: > > http://dyne.org/museum/dec/terminals/la120/tn/dscn3488.jpg.html > > does someone have an idea about this problem? > tnx! > > :) > > -- > [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : > radiocybernet : poetry ] > [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto > http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] > [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE, NON > MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] > [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, > M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > > End of TUHS Digest, Vol 32, Issue 15 > ************************************ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years

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weird problem with our Decwriter III terminal ...

by asbesto

Hi, maybe someone here can help us - our problem is that the decwriter terminal seem to "jump" in particular positions when printing we don't understand how to solve this problem - maybe this is a stepper motor problem, or another problem in gears/transmission? the problem is evident in this image: http://dyne.org/museum/dec/terminals/la120/tn/dscn3488.jpg.html does someone have an idea about this problem? tnx! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE, NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years

1
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[pups] Major/minor device numbers and device names for MSCP drives?

by Robert Armstrong

Probably this is documented somewhere, but I really need a pointer or a brief tutorial on the major/minor device numbers for mknod() and the device names for MSCP drives in 2.11bsd. If I have a really simple PDP with an RQDXn and one RDxx disk, then the device name is conventionally /dev/ra0x and the first partition, ra0a is (5,0), the second, ra0b, is (5,1), etc. Pretty easy. If I have two drives on my single RQDXn, then the second hard disk is /dev/ra1 and ra1a is (5,8), ra1b is (5,9), etc. I guess the offset of 8 must be the maximum number of partitions on a drive - OK, I'm still with you. But what if I have a second MSCP controller? Assuming that I've built the kernel to handle it and modified dtab to autoconfigure it, that is. What are the usual names and mknod() numbers for the drives on the second controller? Worse, what if the MSCP controller isn't a RQDX but is a real UDA/QDA ? Now the drives have their own MSCP unit numbers that can be anything from 0 to 250 - where does this figure in? Same question for TMSCP - what if I have more than one tape controller? This case is easier, though, since TMSCP controllers normally have only one drive associated with them. Thanks, Bob Armstrong

19 years

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 32, Issue 10

by lm＠bitmover.com

> The bandwidth of a mouse and menus is not very high. The bandwidth of a > keyboard is a lot higher. I've long thought that what we needed was control panel which operated on revision controlled flat files in /etc. So you could write scripts to do the automated stuff but you could point and click to do the stuff that you forgot how to do. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years

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[pups] bitsavers document

by Martin Lovick

whilst looking around the bitsavers.org pdf archive, I found a document called PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocument_Jun72.pdf. Having had a quick scan through, it contains a source code listing and some commentary (lions i hear you say). The strange thing is that all of the source code appears to be in assembler... whats this about? is it a comentary of PDP-7 unix? regards Martin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years

2
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[pups] bitsavers document

by Carl Lowenstein

On 6/15/06, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: > On Wednesday, 14 June 2006 at 16:24:29 -0700, Martin Lovick wrote: > > whilst looking around the bitsavers.org pdf archive, I found a > > document called PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocument_Jun72.pdf. > > Can you give a full URL for this document? I've taken a brief look at > the list in http://bitsavers.org/pdf/, but nothing jumped out at me. < http://bitsavers.org/pdf/bellLabs/unix/PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocumen… > carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

19 years

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Re: [pups] bitsavers document

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Martin Lovick remarked, > whilst looking around the bitsavers.org pdf archive, I > found a document called > PreliminaryUnixImplementationDocument_Jun72.pdf. > Having had a quick scan through, it contains a source > code listing and some commentary (lions i hear you > say). The strange thing is that all of the source code > appears to be in assembler... > whats this about? > is it a comentary of PDP-7 unix? It is a fairly early version, with commentary, of PDP-11 Unix (the kernel), indeed still in assembler. It is an interesting find, probably the earliest version yet unearthed. Kossow told me about it when he did (or got) the scan of the document. I can't remember receiving it at the time. It is clearly different from what we in the research group were running at the time--it has devices we didn't have, and I think by then we were on the 11/45. Dennis

19 years

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NY Times article on Bell Labs Holmdel closure

by Jerry Peek

This is a long New York Times article with a lot of detail. They say there'll be at least one public open house before it's demolished. I think you can now read a limited number of NY Times articles without subscribing (they seem to count how many you read -- maybe with a cookie). Here's the URL: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/realestate/commercial/14bell.html Jerry -- Jerry Peek, jpeek(a)jpeek.com, http://www.jpeek.com/

19 years

2
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Unix, eunuchs?

by Michael Welle

Hi, last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a castrated successor of Multics. Hmmm, I am interested in Unix history for several years now, but I haven't heard about that before. It is really a tale I guess. Any clear words about this topic? Michael -- biff4emacsen - A biff-like tool for (X)Emacs http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/biff4emacsen/biff4emacsen.html

19 years

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Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?

by Michael Welle

Hi, "Bill Cunningham" <billcu1(a)verizon.net> writes: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Welle" <m.welle(a)gmx.net> > To: <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:57 AM > Subject: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs? > > >> Hi, >> >> last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its >> name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a >> homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a >> castrated successor of Multics. Hmmm, I am interested in Unix history >> for several years now, but I haven't heard about that before. It is >> really a tale I guess. Any clear words about this topic? >> >> Michael >> > > I know Dennis have said pretty clearly that Unix is a pun on Multics > that the team really never got to start on because Bell changed there minds. > Ken continued with Unix which must've been his idea. In assembly first then > B. Dennis came up with C and its lasted down through the years. that sounds familiar to me. The same story is told in 'A quarter century of Unix' and other sources. VG hmw -- biff4emacsen - A biff-like tool for (X)Emacs http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/biff4emacsen/biff4emacsen.html

19 years

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 32, Issue 8

by lm＠bitmover.com

> There's a reason Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson have been awarded > the U.S. National Medal of Technology (1998) and are fellows of the > Computer History Museum Online. Dave Cutler hasn't and isn't. > "You are not expected to understand this." And while I think this is a little unfair to Dave that's a great .sig It goes well with the recent post about Unix vs NT that concluded about NT "there is no there there". I live on both platforms and I couldn't agree more. Some day I'll post my view on this but here is the really short summary. There are two classes of people: those who derive answers and those who memorize them. As Mark Twain said, the latter group is much larger than the former. My claim is that Unix appeals to the first group - you can guess what it is going to do and you'll be right most of the time. Windows appeals to the other group. They don't have the ability to derive any answer and they are comfortable with a system that mostly works but has "no there there". They can't tell the difference. The sad part (and the good part!) is that all of us on this list are in the former group which is smaller. I think we (well, many of us) wish that more people thought like we do and figured stuff out for themselves but the reality is that most people aren't inclined to do that. So the good and bad part is that we're a small select group. Personally, I've come to accept that and like it. I've gotten to the point where I realize that people who can derive the answer are special, they are gift, and I consider myself lucky when I run into a concentrated group of them. Cough, cough, that would be you. :) -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years

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[pups] PDP-11

by Bill Cunningham

Did these old minis use a teletype or a monitor as stdout? The pictures I've seen of them looks like they used a printout as stdout. Bill

19 years

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX as literature

by bgoodheart

A great read Greg and so true too. Thanks for posting that. I particularly liked the bit about the overheard conversation in Palo Alto "there used to be a shrimp-and-pasta plate here under ten bucks. Let me see...cat menu | grep shrimp | test -lt $10..." though not syntactically correct (and less-than-scintillating conversation), a diner from an NT shop probably couldn't have expressed himself as casually. This reminded me of a time not so long ago when I was seated in Starbucks in Menlo Park enjoying my Caramel Macchiato Venti and overhearing a heated debate between 6 or 7 guys about the GUI vs. command line issue. It seemed to start when a couple of guys in one party, seemingly unknown to the other party, who were talking about kde, rudely butted in to their conversation. Anyway the debate got so verbal that in the end they were all ushered out of Starbucks in an effort to keep the peace. How funny it was. Cheers, Berny

19 years

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 32, Issue 8

by lm＠bitmover.com

A somewhat different view on the Starbucks story: A friend of mine moved here from New Mexico (which is a fantastic place to live, amazing, I used to live there) and she said "It's unbelievable - you can watch people and realize that they are actually thinking before they are talking". Indeed. I'd rather be in the midst of rude people thinking than any sort of people not thinking. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX as literature

by Norman Wilson

Berny: This reminded me of a time not so long ago when I was seated in Starbucks in Menlo Park enjoying my Caramel Macchiato Venti and overhearing a heated debate between 6 or 7 guys about the GUI vs. command line issue. It seemed to start when a couple of guys in one party, seemingly unknown to the other party, who were talking about kde, rudely butted in to their conversation. Anyway the debate got so verbal that in the end they were all ushered out of Starbucks in an effort to keep the peace. How funny it was. ======= The Linux crowd is indeed ruder and more argumentative than the hackers of my youth. Maybe it's because they hang out in Starbucks, rather than in all-night terminal rooms with Coke machines down the hall. Or maybe it's just my memory. Norman Wilson Toronto ON Somewhat more than 30 years into the disease

19 years, 1 month

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address change

by Paul Osborne

Hi, I know that this mail is going to hit moderation. May work email address has changed from P.A.Osborne(a)ukc.ac.uk to P.A.Osborne(a)kent.ac.uk Consequently my posts are getting moderated. Can you update the list please? Many thanks Paul

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?

by John Chung

> > 1. Re: Unix, eunuchs? (dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com) > 2. Unix V6 man pages (Wolfgang Helbig) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:32:46 -0400 > From: dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs? > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: > <49d52b2057749338fb3bb8d01ec2ca7d(a)plan9.bell-labs.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Andrzey wrote: > > >I have taken my info about unics from > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unics . > > > >Perhaps You could comment on this, because Your > person is mentioned there. > > > > Don't believe everything in a (or the) wiki. > > >BTW One cound abbreviate "Uniplexed Information and > Computer System" as > >UNIACS . > > One could, but wouldn't. > > Dennis > > Thanks for clearing it up Dennis. John __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 questions ...

by Pete Turnbull

On Jun 8 2006, 17:15, asbesto wrote: > > 1) we lack the power supply of the 11/23 cpu. From the > schematics, we see that only +5V, +12V and -12V are required, > so we will try to use a normal PC power supply for the QBUS > backplane; does somebody know about problems in doing this? Is it missing or just not working? It's hard to imagine a BA11-N box like the one in your picture without the PSU, since the screws that hold the front panel onto the backplane go through the PSU cover. If it's simply not working, it's not usually hard to repair. You will need to ensure that the BDCOK H (Bus DC OK, active high) signal is held high, also the BPOK H (Bus Power OK, active high, from the AC input) signal or the CPU won't run -- the normal PSU does this. "High" means tied to no less than 3.5V DC. The PSU also provides a mains-frequency square-wave at about 3.5V-4V which drives the BEVENT L line for a real-time clock interrupt, which Unix needs. One of the switches on the front panel can be configured to control this (there are times when you might want to switch it off). Note that devices that turn off BEVENT, including the switch on the front panel, or the DIP switch on the CPU card, do it by shorting that line to ground! The same switch that can be configured to stop the BEVENT signal, is also often used to control the rack's power controller via a 3-wire cable with a 3-pin AMP Mate-N-Lok connector on each end. The front panel with the three switches also has a flip-flop controlled by one of the switches, connected to the BHALT L line, and another connected by a flip-flop to BINIT L. The first halts the CPU when enabled (active low), the other provides a pulse to start it. The RUN light on the panel is driven by the SRUN L signal on the first slot in the backplane. Most of the signals I've mentioned are carried between the backplane and the panel by a narrow ribbon cable. The backplane pinout is shown in a PostScript file called QBusConnsBig.ps on my web page at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/ QBusConns.ps is the same file, but actual size, if you want to hold it up against the backplane. > 2) what kind of UNIX can be run on an 11/23 using a RL02 disk > drive? (just one, unfortunately :!) Nothing later than about 7th Edition, because BSD needs separate I&D space, which an 11/23 doesn't have (2.9 BSD might work, I can't remember). BSD (any version) is much too big for a single RL02 anyway. 7th Edition works; my original PDP-11 Unix system is my second 11/23, still in its original condition, which looks rather like yours, except it has two RL02s and a slightly earlier front panel. Be aware that the RL11/RLV11/RLV12 driver was not a standard feature of 7th Edition, though. You ought to do an inventory of the cards. 7th Edition wants at least 256K of memory. You might also want to see what version of the CPU you have. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 questions ...

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> wrote: > 1) we lack the power supply of the 11/23 cpu. From the > schematics, we see that only +5V, +12V and -12V are required, > so we will try to use a normal PC power supply for the QBUS > backplane; does somebody know about problems in doing this? Off the top of my head, two thoughts: 1. You need the DCOK and POK signals. 2. Do the math and make sure that your power supply provides enough amps -- a real computer needs quite a bit more juice than a sleazy PeeCee. MS

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX as literature

by Wolfgang Helbig

Greg, After I read all of it consulting my dictionary a lot one question remains: What are "Cliffs Notes"? Regards, Wolfgang -- Weniger, aber besser.

19 years, 1 month

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PDP-11/23 questions ...

by asbesto

Hi dudes, We recovered an almost working pdp-11/23 and some other stuff for our computer museum. Some images are online at http://dyne.org/museum :) well, 2 questions: 1) we lack the power supply of the 11/23 cpu. From the schematics, we see that only +5V, +12V and -12V are required, so we will try to use a normal PC power supply for the QBUS backplane; does somebody know about problems in doing this? 2) what kind of UNIX can be run on an 11/23 using a RL02 disk drive? (just one, unfortunately :!) that's all folks! *:) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE, NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 1 month

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UNIX as literature

by Greg 'groggy' Lehey

This recently went round the FreeBSD-chat mailing list. I rather like it, and tend to agree with the opinions. Unfortunately, the URL appears mutilated, and the site itself is "under maintenance", but Google points me at what appears to be the same article at http://www.rap.ucar.edu/staff/tres/elements.html I haven't resisted the temptation to re-wrap the paragraphs :-) Greg Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 19:55:31 -0400 From: Allen <slackwarewolf(a)comcast.net> this is somewhat long... But some of you may have already read it, and probably liked it: [ From http://www.performancecomputing.com...s/9809of1.shtml ] The Elements Of Style: UNIX As Literature If there's nothing different about UNIX people, how come so many were liberal-arts majors? It's the love of words that makes UNIX stand out. Thomas Scoville In the late 1980s, I worked in the advanced R&D arm of the Silicon Valley's regional telephone company. My lab was populated mostly by Ph.D.s and gifted hackers. It was, as you might expect, an all-UNIX shop. The manager of the group was an exception: no advanced degree, no technical credentials. He seemed pointedly self-conscious about it. We suspected he felt (wrongly, we agreed) underconfident of his education and intellect. One day, a story circulated through the group that confirmed our suspicions: the manager had confided he was indeed intimidated by the intelligence of the group, and was taking steps to remedy the situation. His prescription, though, was unanticipated: "I need to become more of an intellectual," he said. "I'm going to learn UNIX." Needless to say, we made more than a little fun out of this. I mean, come on: as if UNIX could transform him into a mastermind, like the supplicating scarecrow in "The Wizard of Oz." I uncharitably imagined a variation on the old Charles Atlas ads: "Those senior engineers will never kick sand in my face again." But part of me was sympathetic: "The boss isn't entirely wrong, is he? There is something different about UNIX people, isn't there?" In the years since, I've come to recognize what my old manager was getting at. I still think he was misguided, but in retrospect I think his belief was more accurate than I recognized at the time. To be sure, the UNIX community has its own measure of technical parochialism and nerdy tunnel vision, but in my experience there seemed to be a suspicious overrepresentation of polyglots and liberal-arts folks in UNIX shops. I'll admit my evidence is sketchy and anecdotal. For instance, while banging out a line of shell, with a fellow engineer peering over my shoulder, I might make an intentionally obscure literary reference: if test -z `ps -fe | grep whom` then echo ^G fi # Let's see for whom the bell tolls. UNIX colleagues were much more likely to recognize and play in a way I'd never expect in the VMS shops, IBM's big-iron data centers, or DOS ghettos on my consulting beat. Being a liberal-arts type myself (though I cleverly concealed this in my resume), I wondered why this should be true. My original explanation--UNIX's historical association with university computing environments, like UC Berkeley's--didn't hold up over the years; many of the UNIX-philiacs I met came from schools with small or absent computer science departments. There had to be a connection, but I had no plausible hypothesis. It wasn't until I started regularly asking UNIX refuseniks what they didn't like about UNIX that better explanations emerged. Some of the prevailing dislike had a distinctly populist flavor--people caught a whiff of snobbery about UNIX and regarded it with the same proletarian resentment usually reserved for highbrow institutions like opera or ballet. They had a point: until recently, UNIX was the lingua franca of computing's upper crust. The more harried, practical, and underprivileged of the computing world seemed to object to this aura of privilege. UNIX adepts historically have been a coddled bunch, and tend to be proud of their hard-won knowledge. But these class differences are fading fast in modern computing environments. Now UNIX engineers are more common, and low- or no-cost UNIX variations run on inexpensive hardware. Certainly UNIX folks aren't as coddled in the age of NT. There was a standard litany of more specific criticisms: UNIX is difficult and time-consuming to learn. There are too many things to remember. It's arcane and needlessly complex. But the most recurrent complaint was that it was too text-oriented. People really hated the command line, with all the utilities, obscure flags, and arguments they had to memorize. They hated all the typing. One mislaid character and you had to start over. Interestingly, this complaint came most often from users of the GUI-laden Macintosh or Windows platforms. People who had slaved away on DOS batch scripts or spent their days on character-based terminals of multiuser non-UNIX machines were less likely to express the same grievance. Though I understood how people might be put off by having to remember such willfully obscure utility names like cat and grep, I continued to be puzzled at why they resented typing. Then I realized I could connect the complaint with the scores of "intellectual elite" (as my manager described them) in UNIX shops. The common thread was wordsmithing; a suspiciously high proportion of my UNIX colleagues had already developed, in some prior career, a comfort and fluency with text and printed words. They were adept readers and writers, and UNIX played handily to those strengths. UNIX was, in some sense, literature to them. Suddenly the overrepresentation of polyglots, liberal-arts types, and voracious readers in the UNIX community didn't seem so mysterious, and pointed the way to a deeper issue: in a world increasingly dominated by image culture (TV, movies, .jpg files), UNIX remains rooted in the culture of the word. UNIX programmers express themselves in a rich vocabulary of system utilities and command-line arguments, along with a flexible, varied grammar and syntax. For UNIX enthusiasts, the language becomes second nature. Once, I overheard a conversation in a Palo Alto restaurant: "there used to be a shrimp-and-pasta plate here under ten bucks. Let me see...cat menu | grep shrimp | test -lt $10..." though not syntactically correct (and less-than-scintillating conversation), a diner from an NT shop probably couldn't have expressed himself as casually. With UNIX, text--on the command line, STDIN, STDOUT, STDERR--is the primary interface mechanism: UNIX system utilities are a sort of Lego construction set for word-smiths. Pipes and filters connect one utility to the next, text flows invisibly between. Working with a shell, awk/lex derivatives, or the utility set is literally a word dance. Working on the command line, hands poised over the keys uninterrupted by frequent reaches for the mouse, is a posture familiar to wordsmiths (especially the really old guys who once worked on teletypes or electric typewriters). It makes some of the same demands as writing an essay. Both require composition skills. Both demand a thorough knowledge of grammar and syntax. Both reward mastery with powerful, compact expression. At the risk of alienating both techies and writers alike, I also suggest that UNIX offers something else prized in literature: a coherence, a consistent style, something writers call a voice. It doesn't take much exposure to UNIX before you realize that the UNIX core was the creation of a very few well-synchronized minds. I've never met Dennis Ritchie, Brian Kernighan, or Ken Thompson, but after a decade and a half on UNIX I imagine I might greet them as friends, knowing something of the shape of their thoughts. You might argue that UNIX is as visually oriented as other OSs. Modern UNIX offerings certainly have their fair share of GUI-based OS interfaces. In practice though, the UNIX core subverts them; they end up serving UNIX's tradition of word culture, not replacing it. Take a look at the console of most UNIX workstations: half the windows you see are terminal emulators with command-line prompts or vi jobs running within. Nowhere is this word/image culture tension better represented than in the contrast between UNIX and NT. When the much-vaunted UNIX-killer arrived a few years ago, backed by the full faith and credit of the Redmond juggernaut, I approached it with an open mind. But NT left me cold. There was something deeply unsatisfying about it. I had that ineffable feeling (apologies to Gertrude Stein) there was no there there. Granted, I already knew the major themes of system and network administration from my UNIX days, and I will admit that registry hacking did vex me for a few days, but after my short scramble up the learning curve I looked back at UNIX with the feeling I'd been demoted from a backhoe to a leaf-blower. NT just didn't offer room to move. The one-size-fits-all, point-and-click, we've-already-anticipated-all-your-needs world of NT had me yearning for those obscure command-line flags and man -k. I wanted to craft my own solutions from my own toolbox, not have my ideas slammed into the visually homogenous, prepackaged, Soviet world of Microsoft Foundation Classes. NT was definitely much too close to image culture for my comfort: endless point-and-click graphical dialog boxes, hunting around the screen with the mouse, pop-up after pop-up demanding my attention. The experience was almost exclusively reactive. Every task demanded a GUI-based utility front-end loaded with insidious assumptions about how to visualize (and thus conceptualize) the operation. I couldn't think "outside the box" because everything literally was a box. There was no opportunity for ad hoc consideration of how a task might alternately be performed. I will admit NT made my life easier in some respects. I found myself doing less remembering (names of utilities, command arguments, syntax) and more recognizing (solution components associated with check boxes, radio buttons, and pull-downs). I spent much less time typing. Certainly my right hand spent much more time herding the mouse around the desktop. But after a few months I started to get a tired, desolate feeling, akin to the fatigue I feel after too much channel surfing or videogaming: too much time spent reacting, not enough spent in active analysis and expression. In short, image-culture burnout. The one ray of light that illuminated my tenure in NT environments was the burgeoning popularity of Perl. Perl seemed to find its way into NT shops as a CGI solution for Web development, but people quickly recognized its power and adopted it for uses far outside the scope of Web development: system administration, revision control, remote file distribution, network administration. The irony is that Perl itself is a subset of UNIX features condensed into a quick-and-dirty scripting language. In a literary light, if UNIX is the Great Novel, Perl is the Cliffs Notes. Mastery of UNIX, like mastery of language, offers real freedom. The price of freedom is always dear, but there's no substitute. Personally, I'd rather pay for my freedom than live in a bitmapped, pop-up-happy dungeon like NT. I'm hoping that as IT folks become more seasoned and less impressed by superficial convenience at the expense of real freedom, they will yearn for the kind of freedom and responsibility UNIX allows. When they do, UNIX will be there to fill the need. Thomas Scoville has been wrestling with UNIX since 1983. He currently works at Expert Support Inc. in Mountain View, CA. -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers.

19 years, 1 month

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Unix V6 man pages

by Wolfgang Helbig

Warren, please consider linking the Unix-V6 man pages at http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/index.html from your site at http://www.tuhs.org/manpages.html Regards, Wolfgang -- Weniger, aber besser.

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Andrzey wrote: >I have taken my info about unics from >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unics . > >Perhaps You could comment on this, because Your person is mentioned there. > Don't believe everything in a (or the) wiki. >BTW One cound abbreviate "Uniplexed Information and Computer System" as >UNIACS . One could, but wouldn't. Dennis

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?

by Jose R Valverde

First, my apologies if this message looks awful. The pun might have stemmed from another variant. Like EUNICE. The original poster was certainly not much aware of UNIX history, so it might as well come to him from an also less knowledgeable user who got it from a vendor of a EUNI* variant. >From memory, I seem to remember at least a company named EUNICE involved with UNIX, and a UNIX-like environment for the VAX (under VMS). So, may be one of these later was actually named with the 'eunuchs' pun intended (perhaps as a castrated down UNIX system on top of VMS) and the pun circulated among some customers. For a newcomer buying it, it would be easy to assimilate *his* variant with standard UNIX and extend the pun. We just saw a similar confussion of LINUX with UNIX from a poster asking for LINUX v5, 6 o 7. It makes sense as well to have a similar pun circulated later, when other operating systems which were arguably better (and I DO NOT want to start that discussion) or more extensive had to deploy support for POSIX/UNIX due to market needs. To me it certainly has no sense having such an association in a time like the early 70s when it would have had a much stronger emotional charge and at a time when UNIX was still in its early development. j On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 23:41:06 -0400 dmr(a)plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > Michael Welle originally asked, > > > last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its > > name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a > > homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a > > castrated successor of Multics. > > The pun may have been at the back of Kernighan's mind, > but the original explanation was "one of whatever > Multics was many of." I think the quip about > "castrated Multics" came from MIT. > > Incidentally, I don't think the Unics spelling ever occurred > in print, though I could be proved wrong. > > Dennis __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Michael Welle originally asked, > last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its > name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a > homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a > castrated successor of Multics. The pun may have been at the back of Kernighan's mind, but the original explanation was "one of whatever Multics was many of." I think the quip about "castrated Multics" came from MIT. Incidentally, I don't think the Unics spelling ever occurred in print, though I could be proved wrong. Dennis

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 32, Issue 3

by A P Garcia

Interesting thread. The Jargon file only says: [In the authors' words, "A weak pun on Multics"; very early on it was "UNICS"] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/U/Unix.html It never occurred to me that the pun might not be recognized, even to people whose first language is not English. Americans sometimes forget that not everyone is American.

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs?

by James Petts

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Cowan" <cowan(a)ccil.org> > To: "Andrzej Popielewicz" <vasco(a)icpnet.pl> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix, eunuchs? > Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 11:02:26 -0400 > English has always had an appetite for borrowed words, ever since we > replaced huge amounts of our native vocabulary with borrowed French, > Latin, and Greek words. I would rather say "augmented" than "replaced", and of course one should not neglect the other languages from which there have been significant borrowings, such as Hindi, which are not, of course, as extensive as from the languages you mention. > (There is, however, just to get *completely* off-topic, the curious > case of the English word "spruce", which means any of various coniferous > evergreen trees of the genus _Picea_. Most of this word is unquestionably > from "Pruce", the older English name for Prussia, now obsolete. > But Wikipedia suggests, perhaps rightly, that the initial s- comes > from a misinterpretation of the Polish phrase _z Prus_ 'from Prussia'. > English dictionaries are not conclusive.) Well, the definition of Spruce in the OED has several quotations from the 17th century and before, which seem to indicate that one of the names for Prussia was in fact "Spruce", which suggests that the Wikipedia article may not be in fact accurate. The "z Prus" etymology, without any supporting evidence, is tenuous... 1378 Durh. Acc. Rolls (Surtees) 47 In xxiiij piscibus de sprws empt., ijs. 14.. Chaucer's Dethe Blaunche 1025 (MS. Bodl. 638), She wolde not..send men yn-to Walakye, To Sprewse & yn-to Tartarye. 1521 in Ellis Orig. Lett. Ser. II. I. 292 The expedition of the Gentlemen of Spruce. c1550 BALE K. Johan (Camden) 9 In Sycell, in Naples, in Venys and Ytalye, In Pole, Spruse and Berne. 1639 FULLER Holy War V. iii. 233 They busied themselves in defending of Christendome,..as the Teutonick order defended Spruce-land against the Tartarian. 1656 G. ABBOT Descr. World 69 On the east and north corner of Germany lyeth a country called Prussia, in English Pruthen or Spruce.

19 years, 1 month

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V7 unix

by Bill Cunningham

Greetings Hellwig Mine Brooder in Unix Dast ist! I have noticed something about your v7 creation. When I try to use the C compiler to compile fp support or any system structures(not structs but components) I get an error /lib/c0 so there's something wrong with the c0 pass in libc. It was probably that way when the tapes were recovered. I have managed to compile and assemble all the c source in the /usr/src/cmd/c directory into object files so the assembler works. What should I do manually with all these .o files? I need a working compiler. Bill

19 years, 1 month

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[pups] Unix V7

by Bill Cunningham

I have I V7 system Warren that runs on PDP-11 that was created from some of Keith Bostics's fileblock fragments. I can get this system up and running but the C compiler seems to be broke. I get ***error 8 which I don't know what that means but it's probably a pdp11 error code. I'm still trying to learn about the pdps but do you know how I might regenerate this C compiler from v7 that will fix c0? When I try to add floating point number emulation to the C compiler and regen things I always get an error at c0. How could I regenerate the c0 pass file? That seems to be the only thing that's stopping me from going further. I don't know if the compiler can be rebuilt from scratch if something like lib/c0 is broken. Bill

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] papers on the -mm macros?

by Aharon Robbins

OK, so I'm wwwwwaaaaaaayyyyyyy behind on reading TUHS. I just wanted to say that if you can find a copy of the third edition of "Unix In A Nutshell" (NOT the current fourth edition) you'll find a chapter on the MM macros. It should be enough to make use of them, as I did buy one of the SysIII licenses and I have a copy of this paper that I referred to when writing that chapter. And groff did do a good enough job formatting it that I was able to print it out and it looked reasonable if not perfect. (Of course, that was circa 1999...) If I ever Get A Round Tuit I want to take the troff material from that edition and do it as an ebook for O'Reilly. But I don't know when or even if that'll ever happen. Arnold > Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:49 +0100 > From: Gunnar Ritter <gunnarr(a)acm.org> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] papers on the -mm macros? > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org, "A. Wik" <aw(a)aw.gs> > > "A. Wik" <aw(a)aw.gs> wrote: > > > I've found the documentation for most of the major > > troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't > > seem to find anything but occasional references to a > > paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm) > > by Smith and Mashey. > > The source code for this paper had been available as part > of the System III distribution under the old (unfree) SCO > license. > > In case you had applied for that license, and you still > have an old PUPS archive CD at hand, you can find it in > Distributions/usdl/SysIII/sys3.tar.gz. > > You will not be able to recover the original layout since > PostScript font metrics are quite different from CAT ones, > but Heirloom troff produces readable output at least. > > Gunnar

19 years, 1 month

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unix v7 c compiler

by Bill Cunningham

I have a copy of a unix v7 c compiler that doesn't work for some reason c0 the first pass doesn't work. How can I rebuild and repair c0. Bill

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 31, Issue 14

by lm＠bitmover.com

> >But the point being made was that I've been around the block, I've worked > >on and/or looked hard at many different Unix variants and I'm not at all sad > >to see them go. > > Why are you here then? Good question. I like it here, I like old Unix. I have little fondness for all the commercial unices, see http://www.bitmover.com/lm/papers/srcos.html for my reasons. I think you may be confusing my dislike for commercial unix with a dislike for unix. If so, that's mistake because I love Unix. I've dedicated a huge portion of my life to helping unix as best I can. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 31, Issue 9

by Berny 'Scouser' Goodheart

On Mon, 22 May 2006, 19:38:21 -0700, Larry McVoy wrote: >But the point being made was that I've been around the block, I've worked on and/or looked hard at many different Unix variants and I'm not at all sad to see them go. Why are you here then? It's a fact that many of the big-gun Unix vendors have moved on but Unix development continues to persist, so don't put it down yet. Unix is still very much alive and kicking. Unix has been around forever and the Unicies that remain still offer enough diversions to mix up the market and make things interesting for us all. If Linux was the only Unix like system out there then what would happen if Linux went belly-up. It could easily happen if the big Linux vendors Redhat, Suse etc went to the dogs. Having other Unix systems out their competing with each other as well as Linux is healthy.

19 years, 1 month

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[pups] simh and 2.11BSD

by John Floren

Hello everyone, I'm just trying to get into PDP-11 Unix. I have a couple older machines lying around not doing much (a SPARCstation 4 and an Ultra 1), and I've been fiddling around with the simh pdp11 and 2.11BSD on the Ultra 1. I can get the system to boot using the 211bsd.simhconfig file from the tarball here: http://ftp.gcu-squad.org/tuhs/PDP-11/Boot_Images/2.11_on_Simh/ I can boot into what appears to be a workable system, but I'd like to have networking and a larger hard drive. Can somebody help me out with getting this set up? If anybody else out there has done the same thing, I'd like to hear exactly what you did. Thank you very much John F.

19 years, 1 month

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[pups] gcc-.3.4.6 for pdp11

by Bill Cunningham

Does anyone know how to compile gcc-3.4.6 for the pdp11? I use the --target=pdp11 switch and the compiler runs for awhile then breaks. The output says it's bulding for a pdp11-unknown something so there maybe something I'm not using. Bill

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 31, Issue 9

by lm＠bitmover.com

> Michael Sokolov, it was, that writted: > [stuff] > > ==== > > You silly, twisted boy, you. Indeed. Michael does not seem to have been taking his meds. Nice guy but a bit out there. Tim wrote: > A good example would probably be SunOS 4 - we already know that Sun are > quite interested in open sourcing stuff given OpenSolaris, but SunOS 4 > hasn't been, presumably because it is full of stuff-they-don't-own and has > no commercial value at all. I'm the guy who took SunOS 4.1.3 and removed all the non-free stuff from it (which was 90% STREAMS) and demo-ed it to McNealy in effort to set it free. A lot went into this: http://www.bitmover.com/lm/papers/srcos.html There isn't much chance they'll release it and at this point it is so far behind I'm not sure I see the point. Even though that is the one kernel that I really loved. > From: Peter Jeremy <peterjeremy(a)optushome.com.au> > SMP support started earlier than 4.1.4. The sun4m machines (SS470, > SS670) were the first SMP machines and ISTR they were supported in Um, search google groups for lm@slovax - that was a 470. It was most definitely not an SMP box though it was my favorite Sun machine. Great machine, my home machine is still named slovax in honor of that box (which was named slovax in honor of a Wisconsin 11/750 that held the 4.x BSD source which taught me more than anything else). And for those who care, slovax/470 now belongs to Theo Deraadt, I'm ashamed to say that I sold it to him so I could buy some parts for my VW van at the time. At the time I didn't have any money, if I could do it over again I would have given it to him. The 670 was an SMP, that's Chuck Narad's box. Pretty nice except that bcopy performance was really bad. ----- But the bigger point I wanted to make was to react to all the stuff about OSF/1 or Ultrix or Tru64 or AIX or whatever. Most of you probably have no idea who I am or what we do. I run a company that makes a software product which runs on all those old Unix platforms. We have all the boxen with all the various Unix versions. Other than SunOS 4.x, if they all fell off the face of the earth tomorrow I couldn't be happier. They suck. And even SunOS sucks in some ways, it's way behind Linux. I'm a file system guy, I'm the last guy who did anything significant to UFS (ask Kirk), and I have to admit that the Linux guys are in some ways running circles around the old school Unix guys. The one exception (that I know of) is ZFS. That's pretty cool, the Linux guys are unlikely to do anything that good, it's too complex. But my point is that the love for the old unix versions is mostly misplaced. V7, you bet. That teaches you "small" (as does Comer's Xinu work). But all of the vendor Unices, even my beloved SunOS, pale in comparison to Linux. Sad but true, I've spent a lot of time in the code. And in some ways it isn't sad at all, it's cool. Linux is free. The only sad part that I still see is maybe personal. I loved SunOS because working in it, as a young kid, I didn't know shit. But there I was, hacking away. When I started, wandering through the code made me feel like I was in a fog, I couldn't see the next step. But as time went on the fog cleared and I saw this very clear and clean architecture. It became something that you could really see and see why it was that way and see how you could extend it and see how you shouldn't extend it. The generic kernel source (take away drivers and file system implementations, but keep the VFS layer) is very small. I've lived for many years in SunOS, I've lived in IRIX, I've lived in SCO (which is more true to V7 than anything else), I've lived in Linux, I've read the HP-UX code, I haven't read Ultrix, OSF/1 or AIX, but the ones I know, they are all pretty simple. The only one that ever cleared the fog for me was SunOS, all the other ones looked like a mess which is why I don't share the sentiment that we should be crying over the loss of all the vendor Unices. I don't want to go back. Linux is pretty nice. Maybe they'll fuck it up, that seems to be a Unix OS tradition, but so far so good. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 31, Issue 10

by lm＠bitmover.com

> I couldn't be happier. They suck. And even SunOS sucks in some ways, it's > way behind Linux. I'm a file system guy, I'm the last guy who did anything > significant to UFS (ask Kirk), and I have to admit that the Linux guys are As Mike H pointed out, Kirk has been more busy than I remembered and has been busy in UFS, so I retract that. That point made, I think the general point that I was making, which is that the Linux guys seem to be moving faster, is still valid. I'm very fond of UFS and have a lot of respect for Kirk, so it's not about that, it's just that the energy seems to be elsewhere. For better or worse. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down

by Stuart, Jon

Perhaps an OSF1-"lite", on par with 4.4BSD-Lite which had the copyrighted code removed, would be possible to get released. Of course, HP would have to have a motive in doing so. All of this, the closing of UNX, the loss of the VAX and now the dying of the Alpha chip, is very disheartening. Although I'm lucky enough to have access to 5 VAXen (running 4.3 BSD UNIX and one running Ultrix4), it's tough for anyone to learn and play with this stuff, because they are becoming so scarce (you can by a VaxStation/MicroVax on eBay, but these will only run Ultrix and not 4.3 BSD, unfortunately). I also am very disappointed about the abandoning of the Alpha chip. >From it's start I was very impressed with it. It was a very good RISC architecture, and the first to really do 64-bit computing, and do it well. Before they decided to kill it, it was still the best architecture for 64-bit computing on the market. Even though I'm pro-open-source, I also can't help but lament losing many of the commercial Unices over the past few years. The next version of HP-UX will apparently be the last, PA-RISC is dying along with Alpha, so presumably OSF1/Digital UNIX/Tru64 is either dead or end-of-lifed as well, IRIX has moved to x86 (the platform I tend to loathe the most, probably because I know it best and learned it first), AIX is still around but IBM is focussing strongly on Linux, and Solaris is still around (but they did kill SunOS 4.1.4 -- personally one of my favorite Unices of all time, basically 4.3 BSD + Sun stuff such as OpenWindows + nice improvements such as loadable kernel modules + pcc ported to SPARC). Not to mention all the mid-to-late 80's versions of UNIX -- Interactive, AT&T System V (actually branded as that, uname -a returned UNIX_System_V), as well as a ton of others I'm forgetting. I guess I'm somewhat nostoglic about old UNIX, and I enjoy seeing it's evolution. That's why whenever I'm able to view the source code of some closed-source UNIX, it's very enjoyable to me. Old UNIX has a rustic appeal to me. It's unfortunate that it seems we must resign ourselves to a future of x86-based OSs, such as Linux, or even Open/Free/NetBSD, which aren't really UNIX (Linux definitely isn't, and the modern BSDs have changed enough that they also aren't IMO). It seems there's no diversity anymore, both in software and hardware. It's amazing how x86 (an inferior architecture) could win the war of architectures when it was basically a bastardized version of the VAX (the best CISC chip ever, IMO). There were so many superior architectures out there, such as SPARC, MIPS, Alpha, PA-RISC, POWER, PowerPC, and VAX. For x86 to win, really shows that the quality of technology in a product really has no bearing on how it will do in the market. It's not about quality, it's about profitability, and they are very often not the same. While IA-64 is based on the PA-RISC, it's still Intel, and the choice of operating systems for it is still going to be limited to the handful previously mentioned. Apple's move away from a RISC architecture (PowerPC) to x86 is just as disheartening. Oh well. I guess we are nearing the finish-line of this "race to the bottom", because of the capitalistic influence on the computer industry. My advice to anyone interested in UNIX (and computer architecture) history is to stock up on machines now, while you can still find them on places like eBay. Some of the newer-but-still-dead architectures such as SGI/MIPS are numerous on eBay. Although, be careful when buying on eBay, because many times you'll get a banged up, stripped of components, unworking shell of one of the slower models of a system. This is particularly true when trying to acquire a SparcStation on eBay. Good luck trying to find a 2way SparcStation 20 with a nice size hard drive and lots of RAM (the fastest machine SunOS 4.1.4 could run on -- and I've heard that 4.1.4 did have very alpha SMP support, similar to what Linux and the modern BSDs used for a long time, that being a "big giant lock" [mutex] around the kernel). ...Jon -----Original Message----- From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of patv(a)monmouth.com Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 2:40 PM To: Lyrical Nanoha; tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down I have heard some grumblings of TOG possibly releasing CDE as open source, but have no idea of where that stands. To be perfectly frank, it had a lot of problems, especially in a 64-bit world. There were too many word size assumptions, and a very good friend struggled for many, many hours fixing those problems before it went to DEIL in India for support. It could probably still benefit from a good "many eyes" developer review and bug fix session in the hands of open source developers. However, IMHO, it no longer has any advantage over KDE or Gnome, but, as I said, that is my opinion. Personally, I'd love to see OSF1 released open source. There were experimental x86 and two Itanium versions in various states of completion floating around DEC/Compaq/HP. I was part of the last Itanium effort before the HP merger. That one booted to single user before the project was killed. OSF1/Digital UNIX/Tru64 UNIX was already branded as UNIX, and it would be fun to see what would happen to the landscape if a branded UNIX was free. Unfortunately, too many proprietary licensed pieces of code in the HP version, especially in System V support, for that to ever happen. Oh well, we can all dream ... Pat > On Wed, 17 May 2006, patv(a)monmouth.com wrote: > > > Another loss to the UNIX community that I can personally report was > > the closing, one year ago this month, of the old DEC Manalpan facility (UNX). > > This was the home of VAX System V, a large portion of Ultrix, and > > everything that made up OSF1/Digital UNIX/Tru64 UNIX except for > > kernel, drivers, and several other components (although I personally > > did some kernel work on occasion). We did shell and utilities, > > about 1/2 of X, Motif, CDE, installation, mail, and other parts of > > the OS that made it useful. If you look at old uucp headers > > anywhere on usenet, any of the traffic with headers that included > > systems with "unx" in the name was routed through this facility. I > > was there from when it was Digital through Compaq and finally HP, almost all the way through to the closing. > > It would be nice if CDE were free, the rest is either part of the > Heirloom project or cloned in some open-source system (e.g., Lesstif). > --; > > -uso. > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail. http://www.monmouth.com/

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 31, Issue 9

by patv＠monmouth.com

> > I don't want to go back. Linux is pretty nice. Maybe they'll fuck it > up, that seems to be a Unix OS tradition, but so far so good. > -- > --- > Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com I hate when these discussions become religious. What I initially said was I'd love to see what would happen if a TOG branded UNIX were open source. As for which one, I don't really care. It doesn't matter which. The hypothetical scenario is if suddenly there was a "Open Source UNIX" out there, what would happen to all the FUD and other marketing spin? This hypothetical OS could easily be a Linux based GNU distribution, almost any BSD, or some other OS out there. I just mentioned OSF/1 because it already has been branded UNIX. Pat --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail. http://www.monmouth.com/

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)tfeb.org> wrote: > A good example would probably be SunOS 4 - we already know that Sun are > quite interested in open sourcing stuff given OpenSolaris, but SunOS 4 > hasn't been [...] Yes it has been open sourced, albeit by force since they refused to do it voluntarily: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/thirdparty/SunOS/sunos-414-source.tar.gz SF

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down

by Norman Wilson

Michael Sokolov, it was, that writted: Then why don't YOU release it as open source? Yes, you personally. Pull out your personal copy of the source (I sure hope you've had enough brains to smuggle one home with you when you left HP/Comfuq), put it on a bunch of Free Software FTP sites (IFCTF would gladly host it), and announce it to the world. And while you are at it, shoot a few cops and hang their heads on a wall as war trophys (in the humanity's war for liberation of all software, of course). ==== You silly, twisted boy, you. Norman Wilson Toronto ON Idiot Connoisseur

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down

by patv＠monmouth.com

I have heard some grumblings of TOG possibly releasing CDE as open source, but have no idea of where that stands. To be perfectly frank, it had a lot of problems, especially in a 64-bit world. There were too many word size assumptions, and a very good friend struggled for many, many hours fixing those problems before it went to DEIL in India for support. It could probably still benefit from a good many eyes developer review and bug fix session in the hands of open source developers. However, IMHO, it no longer has any advantage over KDE or Gnome, but, as I said, that is my opinion. Personally, Id love to see OSF1 released open source. There were experimental x86 and two Itanium versions in various states of completion floating around DEC/Compaq/HP. I was part of the last Itanium effort before the HP merger. That one booted to single user before the project was killed. OSF1/Digital UNIX/Tru64 UNIX was already branded as UNIX, and it would be fun to see what would happen to the landscape if a branded UNIX was free. Unfortunately, too many proprietary licensed pieces of code in the HP version, especially in System V support, for that to ever happen. Oh well, we can all dream Pat > On Wed, 17 May 2006, patv(a)monmouth.com wrote: > > > Another loss to the UNIX community that I can personally report was the > > closing, one year ago this month, of the old DEC Manalpan facility (UNX). > > This was the home of VAX System V, a large portion of Ultrix, and > > everything that made up OSF1/Digital UNIX/Tru64 UNIX except for kernel, > > drivers, and several other components (although I personally did some > > kernel work on occasion). We did shell and utilities, about 1/2 of X, > > Motif, CDE, installation, mail, and other parts of the OS that made it > > useful. If you look at old uucp headers anywhere on usenet, any of the > > traffic with headers that included systems with "unx" in the name was > > routed through this facility. I was there from when it was Digital > > through Compaq and finally HP, almost all the way through to the closing. > > It would be nice if CDE were free, the rest is either part of the Heirloom > project or cloned in some open-source system (e.g., Lesstif). --; > > -uso. > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail. http://www.monmouth.com/

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

patv(a)monmouth.com wrote: > Personally, I^Rd love to see OSF1 released open source. Then why don't YOU release it as open source? Yes, you personally. Pull out your personal copy of the source (I sure hope you've had enough brains to smuggle one home with you when you left HP/Comfuq), put it on a bunch of Free Software FTP sites (IFCTF would gladly host it), and announce it to the world. And while you are at it, shoot a few cops and hang their heads on a wall as war trophys (in the humanity's war for liberation of all software, of course). You've also mentioned in another post about good jobs in your area going away. Why don't you offer your technical skills and expertise to Iran? I'm sure your engineering expertise would be useful to their nuclear weapons program, and you could thus put your skills to serve a good cause, helping make missiles to annihilate evil copyrighting nations. Space Falcon, Programletarian Freedom Fighter, Interplanetary Internationale

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down

by patv＠monmouth.com

Just a personal commentary on that article from the local newspaper. I live in Freehold, a few miles from the Holmdel facility, and I used to work in Holmdel some time back. I worked on several 68K based boards used in a product called DACS. I worked on both hardware and firmware, maintained UNIX for several groups, struggled with nmake and software manufacturing for several products (bugging both Glenn Fowler and David Korn when new nmake releases broke builds), supported the pcc compiler as a cross compiler, etc., for DACS and other products. I was also responsible for the architecture of something called the Line Monitoring Equipment (LME), used in some undersea cable systems, well before Submarine Systems was sold off to Tyco. I can't tell you how many hours I spent in that building. It was fun. Another loss to the UNIX community that I can personally report was the closing, one year ago this month, of the old DEC Manalpan facility (UNX). This was the home of VAX System V, a large portion of Ultrix, and everything that made up OSF1/Digital UNIX/Tru64 UNIX except for kernel, drivers, and several other components (although I personally did some kernel work on occasion). We did shell and utilities, about 1/2 of X, Motif, CDE, installation, mail, and other parts of the OS that made it useful. If you look at old uucp headers anywhere on usenet, any of the traffic with headers that included systems with "unx" in the name was routed through this facility. I was there from when it was Digital through Compaq and finally HP, almost all the way through to the closing. In general, the whole area is undergoing a massive transition. If I had to guess, I'd say it is mostly due to the downswing in telecom, followed closely by the closing of Fort Monmouth. The latter, I think, is the death blow for technology in this region. For hardware developers, not much left at all around the area, and software people have to either go financial in NYC, or work for a pharmaceutical or insurance company. Not much room left for innovation here. Sad. Pat > > http://app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060430/BUSINESS/604300358/1003 > > Coming down > > The developer buying Lucent Technologies' 472-acre campus in Holmdel > plans to tear down the massive 2-million-square-foot research center > that has been home to Bell Labs for the past 44 years. > Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 04/30/06 > BY DAVID P. WILLIS > BUSINESS WRITER --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail. http://www.monmouth.com/

19 years, 1 month

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Bell Labs Holmdel site coming down

by tuhs＠entropy.homeip.net

http://app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060430/BUSINESS/604300358/1003 Coming down The developer buying Lucent Technologies' 472-acre campus in Holmdel plans to tear down the massive 2-million-square-foot research center that has been home to Bell Labs for the past 44 years. Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 04/30/06 BY DAVID P. WILLIS BUSINESS WRITER As the sale of Lucent Technologies' behemoth Bell Labs research center on Crawfords Corner Road in Holmdel moves forward, one thing seems certain. Preferred Real Estate Investments Inc., a developer that specializes in redeveloping obsolete buildings and properties, will knock down the 2 million-square-foot structure, one of the largest office buildings in New Jersey. "I have walked through that building a dozen times. It is a crime that we can't figure out a way to reuse this building," said Michael G. O'Neill, founder and chief executive officer of Preferred Real Estate Investments. "There is just no way. It is just absolutely and utterly unusable." The way the building was designed, using concrete structural walls and hallways that run along the outside of the building, makes it impossible to redevelop, O'Neill said. "It was built for a single purpose that no longer exists," he said. The company has not yet determined how it will take down the building. The large ponds on the property, as well as its road system, will be used by the developer. Lucent is selling the six-story building to Preferred for an undisclosed price. On Thursday, Lucent spokesman John Skalko said a closing on the deal is "imminent." The original building opened in 1962 and was expanded in 1964 and 1982. It was once home to as many as 5,600 employees. But only 1,054 work there now as Lucent has cut jobs and spun off businesses. The company plans to move the remaining workers to offices in Murray Hill and Whippany by the end of August 2007 as it seeks to make the most use of its real estate holdings. Meanwhile, Preferred Real Estate Investments, a developer based in Conshohocken, Pa., said it will involve township officials and residents to come up with a plan for the 472-acre property. Neighbor Barbara Daly said she would like to see any future development limited to the building's current location on the large property. She also worried about traffic. Even at its height, Lucent's staggered work hours kept traffic down, said Daly, who has lived in Holmdel for 14 years. "Part of the charm of Holmdel is the rural feeling," said Daly. "I don't think we need structures visible from Crawfords Corner Road or Roberts Road." Holmdel resident Teresa M. Graw said the property should continue to be used for office and laboratory space by high-tech companies. "Any new construction should go forward with an understanding and respect for the beautiful open spaces, panoramic views and high environmental quality that the property offers, for these attributes are truly what will continue to bring the most added value to the property in the long run," Graw said in an e-mail. The design of the new buildings could take into account the architectural significance of the original, she said. It was designed by Finnish architect Eero Saarinen, the designer of the Gateway Arch in St. Louis, and is encased in a shell of reflective glass. "It seems to me that they have to somehow capture that, the history, the flavor of the property's past," Graw said. O'Neill said there is no formal plan yet for the property. The company does not contemplate any industrial, retail or high-density residential housing development there. "This property is a magnificent setting for corporate users," O'Neill said. "While the buildings are antiquated, the site should be very, very attractive." Preferred also would keep the property's water tower, designed by Saarinen, which people say looks like a giant transistor. "We think that is really neat," O'Neill said. "The significance of telecommunications shouldn't be forgotten." He believes any design for the property would include several buildings, which would total less than 2 million square feet of office space. He also said they will have to try to explore some other "low density use," such as age-restricted housing, that may be appropriate for the site. The property is currently zoned for office and laboratory use. Any other type of development may require a zoning change, said Christopher Shultz, the township administrator. "We know the sensitivity of the open space along the road and the view," O'Neill said. "The challenge we have on this site is to maintain that bucolic feeling, but create something that is economic." Founded in 1992, Preferred specializes in buying closed properties, such as manufacturing plants and corporate offices or headquarters, which were central locations in a town. The company owns properties from Connecticut to Georgia worth more than $1.5 billion. "We go in and look at these things that have clearly become antiquated from what they were," O'Neill said. "We figure out how to design and envision a new life for those sites." In Hamilton in Mercer County, Preferred is redeveloping an old toilet factory formerly owned by American Standard Cos., converting the World-War-I-era building into 450,000 square feet of office space. Hamilton Mayor Glen Gilmore said Preferred worked with the township, creating a building that is filling with tenants. "They are people who keep their word and are able to take a challenging project and do something unique with it," Gilmore said of the developer. In Holmdel, Preferred executives have already introduced themselves to officials and plan on having a public meeting with residents as well. Mayor Serena DiMaso said the town is looking forward to working with Preferred. The township wants to protect its tax base, DiMaso said. Lucent, the township's largest taxpayer, paid $3.19 million in taxes last year on the property, which is assessed at $98.5 million. "We made them understand that we need the ratable base to remain as constant as it can be," DiMaso said. "They (residents) understand that it cannot be Lucent anymore. They are willing to make the compromise for something else." The mayor said she would like to see it continue to be a development with office or laboratory space. Preferred is aware of the township's commitment to open space, she said. Township Committeeman Terence Wall said he envisions a corporate campus that does not include housing. The property also could include space for a library and offices for the board of education, which are now located in town hall, he said. "They can achieve the return on the investment that they require without a housing component," Wall said. Before the sale was announced last month, Holdmel's elected officials had asked the township's planner to look at the best uses for the property, including those that may require a zoning change, said Schultz. The planner also will look at whether the state's redevelopment law applies to the property.

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5

by lm＠bitmover.com

> in particular - I've seen RFS be mentioned. This was > AT&T's implementattion of transparent real-time (for > contrast with UUCP, FTP, etc.) remote file access. It wasn't real time, it was "remote file system" == RFS. It was different than NFS in that it was stateful and that it knew that the other side knew what it knew (think ioctls, yuck). My officemate worked on it, it was problematic. Don't go there. NFS is bad enough, but it works. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] RFS (Remote? File System) (A. Wik)

by Berny 'Scouser' Goodheart

From: "A. Wik" <aw(a)aw.gs> > > In the context of non-local file systems - Sun's NFS > in particular - I've seen RFS be mentioned. This was > AT&T's implementattion of transparent real-time (for > contrast with UUCP, FTP, etc.) remote file access. > > But that's all I know. Does anyone know of useful > sources of information (or just anecdotes, for that > matter)? > > -aw There's an entire section devoted to RFS in the USL SVR4 Network User's And Administrator's Guide. What is it you after Exactly? -Berny

19 years, 1 month

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PDP11/23 and microPDP (11/23?)

by asbesto

Hi, in the end of May i'm going to recover a PDP11/23, a MicroPDP11/23 (maybe? i've not seen it) and some other stuff for our computer museum. Does someone have an idea about what flavour of Unix can be run, if this is possible, on 11/23? :) greets from sicilia, italy! -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE, NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 1 month

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RFS (Remote? File System)

by A. Wik

In the context of non-local file systems - Sun's NFS in particular - I've seen RFS be mentioned. This was AT&T's implementattion of transparent real-time (for contrast with UUCP, FTP, etc.) remote file access. But that's all I know. Does anyone know of useful sources of information (or just anecdotes, for that matter)? -aw

19 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] [pups] gcc-3.4.6 and old unix

by patv＠monmouth.com

If this helps at all, I've been working (very, very slowly) on a port of v32 to Intel platforms. At first I used gcc for some kernel work, but quickly realized that it would be overwhelming to the final v7 system. Since I don't want to do the work twice, I looked for a different compiler suite. I switched to the ACK compiler suite and just finished the WinXP cross compiler work. It has a pdp11 back end, which I have yet to try, that may be useful. It isn't gcc, but ir does do ANSI C and the i386 assembler seems to be pretty complete. Let me know if there's any interest and I'll put it up on my site for download. Pat > Toby Thain napisał(a): > > >On 24-Apr-06, at 9:05 AM, Wesley Parish wrote: > > > > > > > >>Quoting Andrzej Popielewicz <vasco(a)icpnet.pl>: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Wesley Parish napisaÅ‚(a): > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > >It can't be done. > > > >As others point out, the program is many times (100x or more?) too > >big -- likely even gcc 1.x is far too big, but gcc {2,3,4}.x are all > >meant for large 32-bit systems. > > > >However, cross-compilation can certainly be easily done. I have made > >a PDP-11 back-end for lcc[1] (not quite complete but shows that it > >can be done), which is an ANSI (c89) compiler[2]. lcc is a much > >smaller and simpler compiler than gcc, but its executables are still > >massively outsize for PDP-11 systems. > > > > > Yes, even running vi or csh in Ultrix (in simh pdp11) produced message : > too big. After setting cpu to 3072K it worked(setting to 4096 K hanged > the system BTW). > Cross compilation has also this advantage , that You have better editors > to Your disposal and You can work faster. > Well native cc seems to be good enough, using pdp11 in emulator we have > anyway only hobbyst license . > > Andrzej > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail. http://www.monmouth.com/

19 years, 2 months

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gcc-3.4.6 and old unix

by Jose R Valverde

> I am running linux and I want to devote a partition to a good working >old version of linux v5,6, or 7. I have Bob's simulator and it works great. >The thing is when I boot v7_rk05_1145 or v7_rl02_1145 which is I believe >Dennis's donations I don't know how to log out of the system. I also want to >make a filesystem for unix and I don't know how to do that with a pdp-11 >emulator. I want the source so it can be generated too. Gasp! I think you have a number of things wrong that need correction. First, now what LINUX stands for? Linux Is Not UniX. Yep, that's it! While it is true that LINUX is not UNIX, it is similar enough. It was designed to be a substitute for UNIX, and is good enough at it that one could argue it fully behaves as a UNIX now (which would be tantamount to saying it is UNIX, though it hasn't passed X/Open certification). Then, what's in the archive are not old versions of LINUX, but of UNIX. In the sense UNIX predates and sheds the field for LINUX you could think of them as LINUX antecessors, although there is no shared code or lineage among them. What you do when you "boot" the old versions within SIMH is run an ancient UNIX inside a program that emulates (behaves as) an old computer. You are not booting your computer. You are booting a virtual old computer. Then, to shut down an old machine, UNIX 6 or 7 you would simply 'sync' the disks (to ensure all temporary data was saved)and power down the machine. Or at least interrupt it to the console monitor. Under SIMH you can "interrupt" or stop the machine by pressing ^E ([Ctrl] + [E], both pressed at the same time). This will stop the emulation (sort of as if you had turned off the old machine) and take you to the SIMH command prompt. Once there simply type in "quit" and you are out. Under system 7 you start in single user mode. You can go to multi-user status by typing ^D. Then you can login and out as usual. And stop the machine as described above ('sync' a couple of times as root and press ^E). Regarding the filesystem, you don't need a partition. SIMH being an emulator and the machine (PDP11) virtual, everything is virtual. So, what you need to add more space is to add another disk. Not to *your* machine, but to the virtual machine, and not a real disk, but a virtual disk. I.e. a file on your *real* filesystem that you will treat as a virtual disk. Then attach it to the virtual PDP11 using the SIMH "attach" command (this would be tantamount to connecting the virtual wires of the virtual disk to the virtual computer). See the manual of SIMH for more details. As for formatting the disk, see the manual pages. I've got the kids in the bath now and can't type more, but this should be enough to clear up your mind. j ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

19 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 30, Issue 11

by Al Kossow

On Apr 29, 2006, at 7:00 PM, tuhs-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > > I don't *think* that was it - I remember seeing those boxes at some > trade show later, but this was a different animal - it was really a > piece of test equipment for embedded processors (actually it might > have been a socket-level simulator, that you used to replace an 1802 > or something so you could see what it was doing) I think. It was the Tek 8560 multi-user development system. Different models had either an 11/23 or 11/73 processor with their own peripheral interfaces. Manuals on bitsavers.com under tektronix/85xx

19 years, 2 months

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[pups] pdp11

by Bill Cunningham

http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.6/gcc/PDP_002d11-Options.html#PDP_002d 11-Options Here's some info. Bill

19 years, 2 months

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Tektronix Unix Variants

by William von Hagen

Tektronix had a Unix variant called uTek that ran on a number of workstations that they produced in the 1980s - perhaps that's what you're thinking of? These started out with Nat Semi processors, but later production systems were 68Ks IIRC. Most of them ran uTek,. but some also ran a SmallTalk-based system and were sold as AI boxes. As you'd expect from Tektronix products, the graphics were superb for their day. The uTek boxes ran the X Window system and had Tektronix' own window manager. Bill > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:23:19 +0100 > From: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)tfeb.org> > Subject: [TUHS] On the subject of old Unix variants: Tenix? > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Message-ID: <109A4122-F4EE-4430-B7CC-7EB2A0FC35E9(a)tfeb.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Does anyone know anything about this? What I *think* it was was > something that ran on a logic analyser (?) made by Tektronix, which > had some kind of PDP-11 inside them. I suspect it was actually 7th > edition or something similar in rather light disguise. I came across > one of these in the early 80s but never used it, hence the vagueness > of my memory.

19 years, 2 months

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On the subject of old Unix variants: Tenix?

by Tim Bradshaw

Does anyone know anything about this? What I *think* it was was something that ran on a logic analyser (?) made by Tektronix, which had some kind of PDP-11 inside them. I suspect it was actually 7th edition or something similar in rather light disguise. I came across one of these in the early 80s but never used it, hence the vagueness of my memory. --tim

19 years, 2 months

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*nixs

by Bill Cunningham

This xenix and venix OS thing. Where did these OSs come from? If minix and BSD are direct descendants of v4,5,6,7 where does linux fit in here? Bill

19 years, 2 months

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Bellmac-32 and WE32000 and self-virtualization?

by Derek Peschel

First off, isn't it true that both these chips are the same or similar? A short conference paper on the Bellmac-32 caught my eye because it mentioned the various data structures the Bellmac keeps in memory, such as process and interrupt control blocks. I'v become interested in self-virtualizing CPUs (one well-known example being the IBM System/370 and up, running VM) and I wondered if the data structures make the Bellmac-32 a good candidate for self-virtualization. They are not tied to particular addresses and a supervisor could inspect and alter its caller's data. I'm still trying to get my head around the theory. So the manuals would be interesting, but details about actual implementations would be even more interesting. Perhaps MERT is relevant to this discussion. Thanks, -- Derek

19 years, 2 months

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[pups] Ancient Unixes

by Bill Cunningham

I am copying all I can from the unix archive and will burn it to cd because I know how precious they are. But what I was thinking was v5,6,7 for example. Take them and add USB support. Linux would be a good example from which to draw from. Because it's Posix. Much more could be adde to /dev. Bill

19 years, 2 months

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[pups] gcc-3.4.6 and old unix

by Bill Cunningham

Has anyone thought of or tried to port the gcc to the old unixes? It would have to be a very scaled down version. A C compiler that would work with modern c89 or c99. Something to get a C compiler working that would compile todays programs. The old C compilers can be kept for safekeeping as they don't work much anymore. Bill

19 years, 2 months

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[pups] PDP11 reverse-engineering(sort-of)

by Jacques Wagener

Hi there ! Over december last year I had my first wonderful expierence with a micro-pdp11 running Micro-RSX. In actual fact I haven't tried much, only a complete reinstall of the system(which was unecessary, because I've got backup tapes !). But still an amazing moment. What I wanted to ask is, in what manner would one transfer old data/programs/source code from an old hard-drive/tapes/floppy to more modern drives etc. I basically need to transfer controller-programs over to x86( Everything works, I believe, but old hardware is scares) where I want to connect a modern pdp11-interface card. Thanking you in advance Jacques Wagener

19 years, 2 months

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[pups] [TUHS] Ancient Unixes

by Norman Wilson

Bill Cunningham: I am copying all I can from the unix archive and will burn it to cd because I know how precious they are. But what I was thinking was v5,6,7 for example. Take them and add USB support. Linux would be a good example from which to draw from. Because it's Posix. Much more could be adde to /dev. ======= Has anyone ever made a UNIBUS or Qbus USB card? Norman Wilson Toronto ON

19 years, 2 months

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"Preliminary Relase of UNIX Implentation Document"

by Al Kossow

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/bellLabs/unix/ here is a note from Dennis about the history of the documents that I've just put up on bitsavers -- The manual is the 1st edition, a scan of which has been available at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/1stEdman.html in various forms (all renditions of the same scan) for a while. However, the annotated OS and software scan is new to me This is a medium-age version of the assembler system for the PDP 11/20, and is apparently without an MMU. A good find! There were subsequent assembler versions for the (DEC Special Systems) 11/20 with an MMU and then for a while for the 11/45; the first C version would appear late summer of 1973. Regards and thanks, Dennis

19 years, 2 months

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unix

by Bill Cunningham

I am running linux and I want to devote a partition to a good working old version of linux v5,6, or 7. I have Bob's simulator and it works great. The thing is when I boot v7_rk05_1145 or v7_rl02_1145 which is I believe Dennis's donations I don't know how to log out of the system. I also want to make a filesystem for unix and I don't know how to do that with a pdp-11 emulator. I want the source so it can be generated too. Bill

19 years, 2 months

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Ancient Unixes

by Norman Wilson

Bill Cunningham: I am copying all I can from the unix archive and will burn it to cd because I know how precious they are. But what I was thinking was v5,6,7 for example. Take them and add USB support. Linux would be a good example from which to draw from. Because it's Posix. Much more could be adde to /dev. ======= Has anyone ever made a UNIBUS or Qbus USB card? Norman Wilson Toronto ON

19 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Bob's emulator and ultrix

by Jose R Valverde

I have been able to install and run ultrix 3, ultrix4 and OpenVMS on the SIMH emulator. No problem at all at any point. Regarding ultrix, the images available on the archive worked like a charm. For ultrix 4 I used an installation CD I still kept around for ULTRIX on VAXen. As for OpenVMS, if you are interested, it also works OK, but getting it is a bit more difficult. First you need a Hobbyist license from HP. You can get one by joining a local VMS user group (or Encompass US if there is none in your Country). Usually you can get a free limited membership that will give you access to the license. It must be renewed periodically. Then you need access to VMS for VAX distribution media. We have been an Ultrix, OSF-Tru64 and VMS shop for a long time, so that wasn't a problem for me. Otherwise it might be difficult. I think you can order a hobbyist copy from HP, but don't rely on my feeble memory. Once you have the license and the media, installing it is just as simple as installing on a real VAX. I had no trouble at all, but again, I've been a VMS sysman as well for over 20 years. The only problematic point is making the network work, but the recipes available on the web are excellent. You can get to them from the links in SIMH web page. > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:32:27 -0400 > From: "Bill Cunningham" <billcu1 at verizon.net> > Subject: Bob's emulator and ultrix > To: <wkt at tuhs.org> > > I can't get the sim 2.3d to boot ultrix 3.1 or xenix or anyother boot tapes > in the uhs's archive. I have compiled the pdp11 emulator with gcc-3.4.6. I > am also interested in the OS Tim Berners-Lee used to write his first > browser. VMS on a VAX machine I have read. Is there anything like this in > the archive? A VAX emulator and VMS OS? ______________________________________________ LLama Gratis a cualquier PC del Mundo. Llamadas a fijos y móviles desde 1 céntimo por minuto. http://es.voice.yahoo.com

19 years, 2 months

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[pups] Bob's emulator and ultrix

by Warren Toomey

[ Please reply to Bill if you can, I don't know if he's on the list ] ----- Forwarded message from Bill Cunningham <billcu1(a)verizon.net> ----- Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:32:27 -0400 From: "Bill Cunningham" <billcu1(a)verizon.net> Subject: Bob's emulator and ultrix To: <wkt(a)tuhs.org> I can't get the sim 2.3d to boot ultrix 3.1 or xenix or anyother boot tapes in the uhs's archive. I have compiled the pdp11 emulator with gcc-3.4.6. I am also interested in the OS Tim Berners-Lee used to write his first browser. VMS on a VAX machine I have read. Is there anything like this in the archive? A VAX emulator and VMS OS? Bill ----- End forwarded message -----

19 years, 2 months

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[pups] NEXTSTEP etc. [was: Bob's emulator and ultrix]

by Milo Velimirovic

Begin forwarded message: [snip] > > On 4/18/06, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote: >> [ Please reply to Bill if you can, I don't know if he's on >> the list ] >> >> ----- Forwarded message from Bill Cunningham <billcu1(a)verizon.net> >> ----- >> >> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:32:27 -0400 >> From: "Bill Cunningham" <billcu1(a)verizon.net> >> Subject: Bob's emulator and ultrix >> To: <wkt(a)tuhs.org> >> >> I can't get the sim 2.3d to boot ultrix 3.1 or xenix or anyother >> boot tapes >> in the uhs's archive. I have compiled the pdp11 emulator with >> gcc-3.4.6. I >> am also interested in the OS Tim Berners-Lee used to write his first >> browser. VMS on a VAX machine I have read. Is there anything like >> this in >> the archive? A VAX emulator and VMS OS? > > Tim Berners-Lee developed what became the WWW, server and browser, on > a NeXT computer running the NeXTstep OS. There is not a whole lot of > public knowledge about the internals of the NeXT hardware, which makes > it difficult to write an emulator for it. > > There is a slowly progressing effort to port NetBSD to NeXT hardware. > Also, the last few releases of NeXTstep and OpenStep would run either > on NeXT hardware or selected x86 hardware. NEXTSTEP 3.3 & OpenStep run on NeXT's m68k, x86, and on HP/Apollo 700 series HPPA workstations and on several SUN SPARCstation models. I own an HP735 that runs NS3.3 quite nicely. > Somewhere there is a > writeup covering the subject of running OpenStep on the VMware virtual > machine. This is a close but not quite the same thing article: http://iamleeg.blogspot.com/2006/04/so-heres-full-system-networking- is.html > > None of this is VAX, nor is it any other hardware covered by SimH. > > carl > -- > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > clowenst(a)ucsd.edu > > > ------------------------------ -- Milo Velimirović <milov(a)uwlax.edu> Unix Computer Network Administrator 608-785-6618 Office ITS Network Services 608-386-2817 Cell University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W

19 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] Bob's emulator and ultrix

by Rico Pajarola

Hi Bill you may try a current version of the simh emulator (simh 3.5.-2) which is available from simh.trailing-edge.com. I had no problems with Ultrix 3.1, Unix V6/V7 etc.. I couldn't find xenix for pdpd-11 (did I miss that in the archives?). There is Venix, but it's for the PRO-350/380, which is not a "normal" PDP-11. As for the OS Tim Berners-Lee used for his first Browser, I believe that it was made on a Norsk Data Technostation. There is very few information available on these machines, and I don't think there is an emulator for them. There are only a few webpages mentioning it at all: see http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~toresbe/nd/history.html for example (it has a picture of the machine, note the funny terminal with the two LCD's in addition to the monitor). I recently donated my Technostation to a computer museum... regards --rp > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:32:27 -0400 > From: "Bill Cunningham" <billcu1(a)verizon.net> > Subject: Bob's emulator and ultrix > To: <wkt(a)tuhs.org> > > I can't get the sim 2.3d to boot ultrix 3.1 or xenix or anyother boot tapes > in the uhs's archive. I have compiled the pdp11 emulator with gcc-3.4.6. I > am also interested in the OS Tim Berners-Lee used to write his first > browser. VMS on a VAX machine I have read. Is there anything like this in > the archive? A VAX emulator and VMS OS? > > Bill

19 years, 2 months

4
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Re: [pups] Bob's emulator and ultrix

by Milo Velimirovic

On Apr 18, 2006, at 9:00 PM, pups-request(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Bill Cunningham <billcu1(a)verizon.net> > ----- > > Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:32:27 -0400 > From: "Bill Cunningham" <billcu1(a)verizon.net> > Subject: Bob's emulator and ultrix > To: <wkt(a)tuhs.org> > > I can't get the sim 2.3d to boot ultrix 3.1 or xenix or anyother > boot tapes > in the uhs's archive. I have compiled the pdp11 emulator with > gcc-3.4.6. I > am also interested in the OS Tim Berners-Lee used to write his first > browser. VMS on a VAX machine I have read. Doubtful. Everything I have read leads me to believe that Tim Berners- Lee wrote the first web browser on using a NeXT cube running an early version (2.x or earlier) of the NEXTSTEP operating system. > Is there anything like this in > the archive? A VAX emulator and VMS OS? > > Bill > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Milo Velimirović University of Wisconsin - La Crosse La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA 43 48 48 N 91 13 53 W -- There's a reason Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson have been awarded the U.S. National Medal of Technology (1998) and are fellows of the Computer History Museum Online. Dave Cutler hasn't and isn't. "You are not expected to understand this."

19 years, 2 months

2
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[pups] [Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Bob's emulator and ultrix]

by Bill Gunshannon

> > By the way, are there releases of Xenix that run on PDP-hardware? > I've only ever heard of PC (8086+)-based ones. I believe there was a version of Xenix for the PDP-11 but Xenix is based on SYSIII which I understand is not covered by the ancient Unix license. Of course, if it is, I would love a copy of SYSIII. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

19 years, 2 months

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