Mahlzeit
My name is Matthias Bruestle and I'm new on this mailing list.
I'm collecting old computers and have until now 34.
I have a 11/34A with 128kB RAM, DL11-W and 2 RL01. I want to
install UNIX on her. Because there are no RL01 disk images
which I can use directly, I want to prepare one with a
PDP-11 emulator. I got V6 to boot with the Supnik emulator,
but noticed than that V6 has no support for RL01 drives.
Does someone have RL01 drivers for V6 or must I use V7?
The last step would be to download the image over the serial
line. Is there allready a programm for RT-11SJ V4.00
which does this?
Thanks for your help
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
insanity inside
In atricle by Danny R. Brown:
> 3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of
> PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed
> TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my
> 11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but
> I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything
> in about three days.
>
> I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils
> on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm
> still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes,
> names, and etc., in the next few days...
> cheers!
Danny, I just looked thru the archive and, no, you didn't post any
detais. So, would you drop a line with the info when you get back.
Thanks again!
Warren
I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the
PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS
apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or
disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11?
Thanks,
Warren
----- Forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
From: kshuff(a)fast.net
Subject: PDP Unix
Hi Warren,
I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of
equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of
Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it
connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how
this would be accomplished. Thanks again.
-Keith S. Huff
----- End of forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
>From "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com> Fri Aug 23 13:38:27 1996
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus(a)crl.com>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP Unix - how to load?
In-Reply-To: <9608120357.AA22166@dolphin>
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On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:57:30 +1000 (EST)
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> To: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: PDP Unix - how to load?
>
> I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the
> PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS
> apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or
> disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11?
>
> Thanks,
> Warren
> ----- Forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
> From: kshuff(a)fast.net
> Subject: PDP Unix
> Hi Warren,
>
> I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of
> equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of
> Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it
> connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how
> this would be accomplished. Thanks again.
>
> -Keith S. Huff
> ----- End of forwarded message from kshuff(a)fast.net -----
>
Keith, Warren, et al.....
1.Sorry that I've been away from this SIG after such a hectic beginning
last winter. I got sucked up in the Olympics here in Atlanta and am only
now returning to "normal" life. You boys down under might invest in a
good pair of hip boots- its coming your way ;-)
2.Thanks to all of you for your help in getting me up and running.
3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of
PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed
TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my
11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but
I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything
in about three days.
I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils
on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm
still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes,
names, and etc., in the next few days...
cheers!
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus(a)crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
All,
In my continuing quest to find out if PDP-11 UNIX licenses are
available and how to get them, I've been chatting with Mike Tilson, a VP at
SCO. I include his email below, with permission. The summary is that SCO
don't have any licenses for PDP-11 UNIX; if you want a license, you should
join an organisation with an existing UNIX source license so as to be
covered by it.
Cheers,
Warren
From: Michael Tilson <mike(a)sco.COM>
Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix Licenses?
[The question posed to Mike was: could cheap PDP UNIX licenses be make
available to people who don't have licenses?]
As a former PDP-11 UNIX Fifth Edition user and systems programmer I'd
personally be pleased to see this happen. There are some obstacles.
The UNIX intellectual property has great value (SCO gave up nearly 20%
of its equity plus future cash payments to obtain it.) The
intellectual property traces back in unbroken lineage to PDP-11 UNIX.
Source licensing has always been very carefully managed, as this deals
with the core of the intellectual property. Even when source was
licensed to universities "for free" there was a large agreement signed
by a university corporate authority, and the agreement had teeth in it.
The Lions book was something we all wanted to see published, but it
still took considerable careful legal review, and that was just to
publish the kernel plus a limited set of device drivers. The full
source code (utilities, libraries, compilers, etc.) would be a bigger
matter. (Example: I believe the algorithms in the "diff" command for
optimal differencing are still unequaled in other commercial systems,
despite their age.) And the later the version (e.g. Seventh Edition
rather than Sixth Edition) the more concerned we would be.
When Dion Johnson raised this matter internally a while back I
commented that I'd like to see it happen, but that I understood all of
the above concerns. I wondered at that time whether the task of
resurrecting this historical item wasn't something that could be done
in cooperation with universities who already possessed the appropriate
source licenses. Would that method work for you? I note that you
appear to be associated with the right sort of institution.
So in summary I'd like to see this happen, I'll be helpful if I can,
and I would caution that the probability is considerably lower than for
the Lions book. Dion has been doing a good job of representing your
interests, by the way.
It sounds like all the interested parties are today associated with
institutions that would allow them the necessary access for this
history project. I've sometimes thought that I'd like to have a
PDP-11/45 running the old UNIX myself. (The hardware can no doubt be
found in some scrapyard, the trick is floorspace and power of course.
Seems like a lot of effort to get a computer with two orders of
magnitude less capacity than my laptop computer... :-))
Please make sure everyone understands that in principle we'd like to be
helpful, but we're not dealing with a dead product, we're dealing with
an earlier version of what is today a very much alive and growing
product -- an intellectual asset of extremely high value. This means
everyone moves very cautiously, as intellectual property law can be a
minefield. There is no doubt that a license with enough teeth could be
written, and if we had such a license the purpose would not be to
charge historians or hobbiests a lot of money. The real obstacle is
the care and effort that must go into creating a licensing program, and
I think the business reality is that we're unlikely to have enough idle
cycles available to create the program for you. (Not my department,
though -- maybe Dion will be able to push it through, who knows?)
// Michael Tilson, CIO
// SCO, +1-408-429-4889
All,
Just got this information about the Lions commentary on v6 from
Peter Salus:
The ISBN for the Lions is (will be?) 1-57398-013-7. It will
be $29.95 US. The distributor is International Thompson;
the publisher is Peer-to-Peer Communications.
Cheers,
Warren
All,
I browsed thru the blocks on my `Museum Format' v6 disk image,
and after a bit of work found a nice comment from the writers of the
code:
/*
* Optimized RK-11/RK03/RK05/disk driver
*
* Copyright (c) 1975, the Children's Museum.
*
* [...] In this
* format, block 0 is in its standard place so that
* boot programs can be put there; blocks 1 through
* NHRKBLK (2435) are located beginning at block #2436,
* all remaining blocks are between block 1 & 2435. the
* effect of this mapping is to centralize disk head motion
* about the center of the disk.
* the optimization is ideal for those RK's
* which serve as both root device and swap device. It
* is less than ideal, although probably still an
* improvement over traditional form, for RK's used
* exclusively as mounted file systems.
So, after a bit of dd(1)ing, I had my two Museum Format v6 disk images
into a form which could be read with a normal v6 system.
Cheers,
Warren
Hi all,
I've just been looking thru the old tapes I have here from v6 Unix,
and I think I've got two RK disk images which were laid out with the RK
driver from the Boston Children's Museum. An old email from Kevin Hill
says that the inodes are in the middle of the pack, rather than at the
beginning. However, I don't know enough about the scheme to try and
decode the files from the disk image.
If anybody can help me out, could they email me back. I've got a
program called `grab' that can extract files from v6 images, and I'd
like to modify it to get the files from these `museum' disk images.
Re: the stuff from SCO, Dion at SCO is talking to the legal guys, but
I haven't heard anything as yet.
Thanks in advance!
Warren
In atricle by Tom I Helbekkmo:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> Is there really any good reason for them to object to the distribution
> of UNIXes prior to SVR1? Could there possibly be anything at all in
> V7 and earlier that could in any way be damaging to SCO (or anyone
> else who might buy UNIX from SCO) if it were freely distributed? If
> I'm right in assuming that it couldn't possibly make a difference to
> their bottom line, perhaps SCO could be convinced to formally release
> these oldest versions of UNIX?
I suggested to Dion that SCO would get kudos from the Unix community if
they did. Haven't heard back from him yet (still Sunday there).
> Does anyone know, by the way, what's happening with the Lions
> commentaries? They're at the top of my "stuff I want to read" list,
> and have been for quite some time now!
I have a copy of the PostScript version which floated around the 'net
a few years back. I'd be prepared to give it out on the solemn promise
that people buy Lions' commentaries when they are published.
I'll let you all know how I go with SCO.
Cheers,
Warren
> All,
> I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
> Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
> his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
> on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
Not that I wan't to sound pessimistic, but there are several
miles between "would not mind", and "legally allowed".
>From what I read into his letter, he's saying that he don't think
SCO would take legal actions against us, but at the same time they
won't probably make it officially legal.
And your reply, hoping that they'll say that "Unix is legally owned by
SCO, but freely distributable", is really reaching for the sky... :-)
Anyway, keep trying, it would be very nice if they really did write
such a paper.
Johnny
All,
I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
Cheers,
Warren
In atricle by Dion:
>
> SCO owns the licensing rights all versions of the UNIX system, or
> so our legal folks tell me. Now, of course there are many
> derivative, licensed versions, and some of the holders of those
> licenses have rights to sublicense. In the case of BSD
> enhancements, the Berkeley additions are owned by the Regents of
> the University of California, and I believe the UCB license terms
> are well known.
>
> As for your friends who have rescued ancient PDP machines... I
> am confident that SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
> on these antiques without any payment to us. I cant quite
> officially give that permission myself, but I can speculate that
> SCO certainly would not mind.
>
> So go for it. Does this help?
> -Dion
>Dion L. Johnson II - The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. dionj(a)sco.com
>SCO Product Manager - Development Systems and Various Other Stuff
>400 Encinal St. Santa Cruz, CA 95061 FAX: 408-427-5417 Voice: 408-427-7565
Dion, thanks very much for your email, in fact I'm ecstatic! I know this
could be a tricky legal minefield, so if possible could SCO draft a letter
(and run it past their lawyers) which sets out exactly what you said above.
In particular, you said that ``SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
on these antiques without any payment to us''. Does this mean I can legally
distribute the source code to the PDP versions of UNIX, and to anybody? or
just to people who own PDP-11s. There are PDP-11 emulators available, so
it is conceivable that people who don't even have a real PDP-11 might like
to try UNIX out on these emulators. If to anybody, then I assume this means
the source is legally owned by SCO but freely distributable?
I really appreciate your offer of making these old versions of UNIX
available, but given the legal status of the code to this point, I would
like to cover myself with an officially blessed and signed document from SCO.
Let me know what you can do, and many many thanks again for this!
Cheers,
Warren
